Nissan 554km Range Leaf Prototype

cros13

It was on the side of the stage during Nissan Shareholder Meeting

huggs2

When they bring that out with the new body shape,I,m in even if i have to wait awhile.

batskat

It says here on link below that they put two batteries in the Leaf car instead for one .
Does that mean there is no boot space or rear seats

"www greencarreports.com/news/1087812_dreaming-of-a-nissan-leaf-with-double-the-range-well"
new user cant post links so add the dot after www

Would be useful for many people a 500 kilometers range for lot less cost than Tesla

Batskat

nokia69

batskat wrote: »

Would be useful for many people a 500 kilometers range for lot less cost than Tesla

Batskat

do you really think they will be selling a 500KM Leaf for the same price as todays Leaf

Benny_Cake

nokia69 wrote: »

do you really think they will be selling a 500KM Leaf for the same price as todays Leaf

If they could sell a Leaf for the same price that could do 200km in normal conditions, that would be perfect for me. I'm happy with the Leaf as it is, but a little extra range would be nice.

I wouldn't trust that prototype with the speed bumps in this country, it doesn't look like it has a lot of ground clearance!

nokia69

Benny_Cake wrote: »

If they could sell a Leaf for the same price that could do 200km in normal conditions, that would be perfect for me. I'm happy with the Leaf as it is, but a little extra range would be nice.

I wouldn't trust that prototype with the speed bumps in this country, it doesn't look like it has a lot of ground clearance!

I doubt that "prototype" is even real, having the dash read out say 554KM is easy to do, actually building a leaf with that range is a different story

cros13

nokia69 wrote: »

I doubt that "prototype" is even real, having the dash read out say 554KM is easy to do, actually building a leaf with that range is a different story

That video is from Nissan and the prototype was on the stage with Carlos Ghosn (the CEO of Renault/Nissan) at a Nissan shareholders meeting today.

That's pretty bloody real.

The main part of the different look is the addition of the standard Leaf NISMO body kit to that Leaf which sort of hides the larger battery hanging out it's arse.

Leaf NISMO is not sold here so we're not used to seeing it.

nokia69

cros13 wrote: »

That's pretty bloody real.

I hope it is, but I really doubt it, what I notice most is the lack of any other technical details beyond the 500KM + range

we all know the next Leaf will have better range, but I don't think they will jump to over 500 KM

cros13

nokia69 wrote: »

I hope it is, but I really doubt it, what I notice most is the lack of any other technical details beyond the 500KM + range

we all know the next Leaf will have better range, but I don't think they will jump to over 500 KM

Sorry got the wrong end of the stick. I agree with you that Leaf II may not have anything beyond 350-400km range in the marketing brochures.

And we certainly know real world will be well below whatever they quote from the J8 or NEDC cycles.

peposhi

cros13 wrote: »

Sorry got the wrong end of the stick. I agree with you that Leaf II may not have anything beyond 350-400km range in the marketing brochures.

And we certainly know real world will be well below whatever they quote from the J8 or NEDC cycles.

I wonder what charger we would have use to fill that 400km range big madafaka battery with juice without having to take a nap beside it...

nokia69

peposhi wrote: »

I wonder what charger we would have use to fill that 400km range big madafaka battery with juice without having to take a nap beside it...

something like a tesla supercharger

No chance, 500 Kms is the Japanese cycle which is even more exaggerated than the Euro. I would say Leaf II will have in or around 200-250 Kms "Real" range, no more. Still good enough for me.

samih

The video is gone now.

GreyDad

It looks great, like the Nismo body kit.

250km would be fine - the Nismo Sport Mode (1sec less 0-60mph) would also be appreciated

Pity the video's gone down

GreyDad

Video still available here:

Super Leafie

mr.dunkey

Nissan say that the will be releasing a 30kw battery soon as an option,
There is new technology discovered in battery tech, better density and charging ability that Nissan are testing for 2017 I believe. Rumours on the web that a 48 kw battery might be an option in 2017,

Yeah I can't see anything more than 48-50 Kwh max in Leaf II.

It's got to be faster not just the 0-60 but past 60 mph needs more grunt.

samih

To get more grunt at higher speeds a different motor technology is needed and/or longer final drive (which again necessitates more oomph from the power electronics). Permanent magnet motors that current Leaf uses are limited what they can do at high rpm as far as efficiency and torque are concerned.

Induction motors are better at high rpm but require more advance electronics and are slightly less efficient at low speeds which is ok with a bigger battery pack. But it all boils down to cost at the mass market. Imo, Leaf is quick enough for what it is. I would actually be prepared for slighty less torque low down for bit lower revs higher up. Wonder if a step to that direction was already done in mk 1.5 compared to mk 1 as the newer cars have less oomph low down but a bit more efficiency at motorway speeds.

The current Gen torque was reduced by about 30 Lbs/Ft but I don't know whether they did this through limiting the power in the motor controller or through motor windings\ gearing etc.

Leccy motors are capable of huge peak power, once the heat is kept at bay you can run a lot of power, but there are limitations, you don;t want to reach core saturation and you don't want to run it much out of it's peak efficiency.

Nissan could have reduced torque at the low end by altering the windings of the motor and/or through the final gearing, the drivetrain is different to the MK I .

The leaf at the end of the day has only got 107 Hp and that's not a lot of power but it's enough to get it to the limiter comfortably.

The I3 would be a lot more fun, lighter and more power than the Leaf.

I think Leaf II will concentrate on range and efficiency rather than power, rear wheel drive or 4 WD would be nice then you don't have to limit the torque so much on take off.

There are not many high performance Nissan or Renault ICE cars available, so it is safe to bet there won't be any high power electric cars either.

Perhaps the GM Bolt, the Americans usually don't make slow cars like the Europeans, you can be sure the Tesla Model 3 will have multiple power options and I bet the Minimum power will be decent.

Viper_JB

Wow....biggest issue has always been range for me really an EV that can do 554km on a charge would be great.

TBi

Deleted User wrote: »

I think Leaf II will concentrate on range and efficiency rather than power, rear wheel drive or 4 WD would be nice then you don't have to limit the torque so much on take off.

I wonder if for 4 WD they could use different motors front and back. Front having more torque at lower speeds allowing fast acceleration and the back having more torque at high speeds giving higher top speed. So in normal operation you basically start with the front motor and cruise with the rear motor.

Not sure how well that would work off road. Usually at those speeds you aren't worrying about outright acceleration, just turning power.

samih

TBi wrote: »

I wonder if for 4 WD they could use different motors front and back. Front having more torque at lower speeds allowing fast acceleration and the back having more torque at high speeds giving higher top speed. So in normal operation you basically start with the front motor and cruise with the rear motor.

Not sure how well that would work off road. Usually at those speeds you aren't worrying about outright acceleration, just turning power.

That's pretty much what Tesla Model S P85D does.

cros13

samih wrote: »

That's pretty much what Tesla Model S P85D does.

And it's the same powertrain as the Model X basically. Won;t see any those around Dublin until next year.



And there are rumors the next BMW i3 will also be dual motor.

The main limitation is whether the battery pack can supply enough power to meet the peak demand from the motors (which is the reason my i3 has a more powerful 125kw electric motor than the i8's 90ish KW output battery could feed). This issue will melt away as battery capacity increases, no reason you couldn't have a large scale production car with a motor for each wheel. Then things get interesting 'cause you can do torque steer and other fancy stuff. As Tesla found you can improve the range of the car as well by adding more motors as you can propel the car more efficiently. Motors are cheap anyway, the motor in the Leaf cost less than $700 to make. The Mercedes SLS Electric already has this setup: http://www.dragtimes.ru/files/blog/eb39259ebe1969e494922a6d39b0b9b5.jpg

The Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV is also dual motor 4WD (Dual electric motors as well as the ICE), but the front motor is a weedy 15kW.

TBi

TBi wrote: »

I wonder if for 4 WD they could use different motors front and back. Front having more torque at lower speeds allowing fast acceleration and the back having more torque at high speeds giving higher top speed. So in normal operation you basically start with the front motor and cruise with the rear motor.

Not sure how well that would work off road. Usually at those speeds you aren't worrying about outright acceleration, just turning power.

They could but it would most likely cost too much, at least RWD would be more useful then FWD for electrics. I would imaging RWD would give a lot more traction than front for take off. But this would mean the motor in the rear, no big deal really but the current Leaf is assembled on the same production line as their ICE cars to minimise costs so when you lift the bonnet of the Leaf it's similarly laid out like a traditional ICE car, I can't see this changing so my guess is the chassis will be redesigned to accommodate the battery like the Tesla and I3 rather than protrude into the cabin.

Leaf II should be completely redesigned to be an EV and not a modified ICE. They could have a chassis like BMW and particularly Tesla but the budget will be tight so most likely it will be a front wheel drive of similar power. Nissan/Renault are not known for installing powerful engines into normal cars either so I bet we probably won't see an improvement there though the option for 200 HP would be nice considering leccy is so cheap you don't have to worry about fuel economy or emissions but unfortunately, more power means more expensive components are needed all around.

cros13

cros13 wrote: »

And it's the same powertrain as the Model X basically. Won;t see any those around Dublin until next year.


And there are rumors the next BMW i3 will also be dual motor.

The main limitation is whether the battery pack can supply enough power to meet the peak demand from the motors (which is the reason my i3 has a more powerful 125kw electric motor than the i8's 90ish KW output battery could feed). This issue will melt away as battery capacity increases,

Dual motor I3 ? that will be fun but very expensive I would say, I'm sure the current I3 is a lot of fun as it is already !

Hybrids usually have a much higher power density, needed because of the much smaller battery but if the I3 / Leaf battery had similar power density you could have massive power outputs.

Tesla really builds fantastic electrics but their customers have the cash to spend so they have the funds to spend on designing a proper EV though on the other hand the much larger Auto companies have much larger cash reserves than Tesla but they're not willing to spend the money. BMW for instance, while the I3 is a good car it could have been a lot better. It could have had less power but a larger battery.

No reason the Germans can't build a 3, 5 series or A4/ A6/ Passat etc with 200 miles range other than they don't want to because they make so much money from ICE cars and it will take either really tough emissions legislation or political will to see them change or customers to realise the electric drive is a hell of a lot better than any ICE or when they are starting to loose money from staying in the dark ages. There are 0 incentives also for Germans to change to Electric. The charger network is also very poor I believe though I can't find a decent charge point map.

cros13

Deleted User wrote: »

Dual motor I3 ? that will be fun but very expensive I would say, I'm sure the current I3 is a lot of fun as it is already !

Sure, it will cost a little more... but not a huge amount. They could also make it an option, BMW loves options. My i3's price was literally doubled with options. The only one I don't have is the low speed warning noise (€200 option) .

Deleted User wrote: »

There are 0 incentives also for Germans to change to Electric. The charger network is also very poor I believe though I can't find a decent charge point map.

Getting better rapidly. New legislation passed in Germany detailing how and where rapid chargers should be built. CCS map has been lighting up like a christmas tree in the last few months. More than 650 rapid chargers due to be up and running by the end of the year.

My i3's maps haven't been lighting up.... BMW wants €200 to update the maps with charger data from February :I .....rather than you know, actually using the inbuilt modem that it already uses for spotify and traffic data to keep the damn maps updated like every other EV manufacturer.

I don/t bother with the Leaf Sat nav, after using Google maps anything else is just annoying, I use the Navigation on my LG Urbane Smartwatch , just talk into the watch a location and away you go, just brilliant and it gives directions on the watch too which you can turn towards you and you can easily see it while driving. Fantastic !

BMW really take the Mick with options and their cost !

Glad to see BMW have the noise maker an option !

BMW want to install 20 Kw CCS on lampposts. But ridiculous the U.S and E.U auto makers chose CCS over ChaDeMo, ChaDeMo is far more common and ChaDeMo II will be just as good if not better but the Germans are ensuring people only buy German Electrics !!!