Using campers for everyday use

nicknackgtb

Hi all,

Just something I am looking into as an option.

Can you get insured on campers (ie. Vw's etc) to be able to drive them as an every day vehicle?

I have a car now but would like a camper, but couldn't afford the 2 together.

TY,

*Kol*

In order to get insurance from Dolmen you need to have a car insured. I don't know about other companies.

I've insured a camper with Dolmen as a sole vehicle. I believe they're the only ones who do it. You'll lose your NCB. Camper insurance is double if you don't have a car...I'd insure a log book if I could be bothered.

moodrater

nicknackgtb wrote: »

Hi all,

Just something I am looking into as an option.

Can you get insured on campers (ie. Vw's etc) to be able to drive them as an every day vehicle?

I have a car now but would like a camper, but couldn't afford the 2 together.

TY,

It's cheaper for us to run a small car and a camper, fuel cost is much less especially on short journeys. Also you'll find loads of height barriers, tiny car spaces and tight spots make day to day driving around towns and cities a real pain.

*Kol*

Sir Liamalot wrote: »

I've insured a camper with Dolmen as a sole vehicle. I believe they're the only ones who do it. You'll lose your NCB. Camper insurance is double if you don't have a car...I'd insure a log book if I could be bothered.

That's interesting to know. I never looked into it much as I have alway had a car insured too. If it's double the cost it's worth having a small car insured along with the camper, it's handier for moving around town and parking as is said above.

Macy0161

*Kol* wrote: »

That's interesting to know. I never looked into it much as I have alway had a car insured too. If it's double the cost it's worth having a small car insured along with the camper, it's handier for moving around town and parking as is said above.

It used to be double the cost of the campervan scheme, not double the car insurance iirc. For us anyway, that would still work out cheaper than two vehicles purely on insurance, never mind tax.

I did look into this earlier in the year when we were thinking of downsizing. When I asked Dolmen, who we are insured with, they didn't really give a straight answer about the need to piggy back on car insurance, and told me they wouldn't cover for social and commuting purposes. This ruled it out as a daily driver for us - they said it's one of things you sign is that it will only be for holiday use only. tbh, the struggle to get straight answers meant I would've switched to stuarts if I that didn't need the hassle of an engineers report to do move!

I think some of the clubs do have scheme's that allow daily drivers, but I've heard they can be picky over members and over the standard of conversion they'll allow. You do lose any NCB, and I've no idea what happens if you make a claim (which must be more likely as a daily driver). I didn't look any further though as we decided against the downsizing in the end at this time.

stevire

To be honest, I'm glad insurance companies and clubs are picky. There are people out there that try to abuse the system by using their 'camper' as a work vehicle. Putting in the bare minimum to get it through conversion and insurance, it's the exact reason why insuring a van under 1.8m is so difficult.

aaakev

stevire wrote: »

To be honest, I'm glad insurance companies and clubs are picky. There are people out there that try to abuse the system by using their 'camper' as a work vehicle. Putting in the bare minimum to get it through conversion and insurance, it's the exact reason why insuring a van under 1.8m is so difficult.

you seem really annoyed about that.... Not everyone has the luxury of being able to afford 2 vehicles and why should it matter to you if someone has the bare minimum in their conversion? you have what ever you want and let others have whatever they want. a mate of mine has a vito done in a way he can use it for work and as a surf bus that he sleeps in most weekends and it works very well as both

stevire

aaakev wrote: »

you seem really annoyed about that.... Not everyone has the luxury of being able to afford 2 vehicles and why should it matter to you if someone has the bare minimum in their conversion? you have what ever you want and let others have whatever they want. a mate of mine has a vito done in a way he can use it for work and as a surf bus that he sleeps in most weekends and it works very well as both

I've no problem with a bare minimum conversion, I do have a problem with classifying and insuring as a camper to use it as a work vehicle. Camper tax and insurance is in place for leisure purposes only. It's abuse of the motor tax system, keep it as a commercial if it's being used as a work vehicle.

If he got pulled by Gardai and they see it's clearly being used as a work vehicle and has a motorhome tax disc they have every right to seize the vehicle. It's no different to the people that under-declare the engine capacity of cars to get cheaper tax.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/gardai-seize-18-bmws-for-tax-fraud-31058511.html

Macy0161

imo, part of the problem is the lack of options. When we were looking into converting a T5, I couldn't get quoted on the T5 as it wasn't for work purposes (while we were waiting for it to be converted).

If you do a conversion, will the insurance companies cover you as a "normal" vehicle? Not on my initial enquiries anyway - it's too modified. They will quote for a factory built California though.

I would've been happy to pay full shuttle/ T5 private road tax, and have normal shuttle insurance, which probably would've been cheaper than the scheme and retain my ncb and give me full cover. I'm not sure that's an option without lying/ being economical with the truth. The only cost advantage, ignoring the lack of cover options, is the tax rate.

aaakev

stevire wrote: »

I've no problem with a bare minimum conversion, I do have a problem with classifying and insuring as a camper to use it as a work vehicle. Camper tax and insurance is in place for leisure purposes only. It's abuse of the motor tax system, keep it as a commercial if it's being used as a work vehicle.

If he got pulled by Gardai and they see it's clearly being used as a work vehicle and has a motorhome tax disc they have every right to seize the vehicle. It's no different to the people that under-declare the engine capacity of cars to get cheaper tax.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/gardai-seize-18-bmws-for-tax-fraud-31058511.html

Are you really that concerned with someone under declaring road tax?

My mates is a work van taxed as such and insured for business, social, domestic and pleasure use as is my own.

stevire

aaakev wrote: »

Are you really that concerned with someone under declaring road tax?

My mates is a work van taxed as such and insured for business, social, domestic and pleasure use as is my own.

My point is simple, camper tax is not for any other use than leisure. Insurance is at the discretion of the underwriters. Abuse of the camper tax system makes it difficult for the rest of us, conversion rules and insurance rules have tightened up since 2010. We all have to jump through hoops to get our camper on the road as a result.

I'm not saying you or your mate are abusing the tax system but there are too many out there that are. Under-declaring road tax? An illegitimate VAT number to insure a van as commercial? No, I'm not concerned with those. Using camper tax to get cheaper van/MPV tax? Yes I'm concerned because it effects me personally in terms of getting vehicles re-classified and insured.

nicknackgtb

aaakev wrote: »

. a mate of mine has a vito done in a way he can use it for work and as a surf bus that he sleeps in most weekends and it works very well as both

This is exactly what I was talking about originally.

I want to be able to have a camper (caravelle, bongo whatever)that I can use if I go somewhere at weekends, but still want to be able to use it to commute to and from work, not so much to carry items in but simply for commuting. I film events at weekends and want to have somewhere to stay, have a cup of tea, and set up my computer etc.

Otherwise is all that can be suggested is to get a van and put a matress in the back of it when needed, really isint ideal.

I don't have income for two cars let alone space in my driveway hence me asking the question to see if the above is possible.

aaakev

My mate is a chippy and did his himself. He started with a lwb vito and insulated the whole thing then ply lined it. He made a box 2ft high x 2 ft wide along the right from the bulkhead to the back door. The vertical bit folds up an he has sections for all hit tools and when open doubles as a 4ft x 7ft bed that 2 people can sleep on. He carpeted the whole thing inside too, tinted the rear window, fitted a curtain, LED lights and a water pump wired to a leasure battery for showering after a surf or day on the beach. On the left there are shelves for plastic bins with screws and other small fittings and tools with a fold down front which doubles as a table.

When being used as a camper all the tools are removed and in their place goes a fridge, water tanks, toilet and other stuff he needs all stored under the bed. He has 2 blow up mattresses, pillows and sleeping bags for sleeping and uses a gas stove for cooking.

Its laid out very well and works great for both applications, surf boards can even go inside or on the roof rack. His next plan is for canopy or awning on the passenger side. The materials and equipment he bought cost about a grand and ad i said he did all the work himself.

At doe time his tools are usually in it and he has never had any problems

Carnmore

aaakev wrote: »

My mate is a chippy and did his himself. He started with a lwb vito and insulated the whole thing then ply lined it. He made a box 2ft high x 2 ft wide along the right from the bulkhead to the back door. The vertical bit folds up an he has sections for all hit tools and when open doubles as a 4ft x 7ft bed that 2 people can sleep on. He carpeted the whole thing inside too, tinted the rear window, fitted a curtain, LED lights and a water pump wired to a leasure battery for showering after a surf or day on the beach. On the left there are shelves for plastic bins with screws and other small fittings and tools with a fold down front which doubles as a table.

When being used as a camper all the tools are removed and in their place goes a fridge, water tanks, toilet and other stuff he needs all stored under the bed. He has 2 blow up mattresses, pillows and sleeping bags for sleeping and uses a gas stove for cooking.

Its laid out very well and works great for both applications, surf boards can even go inside or on the roof rack. His next plan is for canopy or awning on the passenger side. The materials and equipment he bought cost about a grand and ad i said he did all the work himself.

At doe time his tools are usually in it and he has never had any problems

Could you upload some pictures of this?

VengaBus

Hiya using my van for daily use for the last couple of months, but was unaware until I got the renewal today there is a section about declaring this,my issue is that I had a claim from last year for an incident that occurred during leisure use.as a consequence,my premium went from €340 to €570.is the rule of thumb with dolmen that the premium is doubled or would it be double the basic premium?would appreciate any advice.Could I get insured under my wife's car,as I scrapped my own a few weeks bacl

It's double if the camper is your sole vehicle. Although your insurance on your spouse's vehicle ought to fulfil that.
I'm not intimate with their pricing policy. I thought it was flat rate or refusal.

Perhaps your wife can insure the camper. +€50 Open drive.

Macy0161

Anyone gone from back from daily driver insurance back to a car licence? I know I posted a while back that you do lose you no claims bonus, but now I can't find anything to back up my own point! We're back thinking of a downsize and then use as a daily driver (only way the financials are working for us), but we're a bit put off by losing hard earnt no claims bonus for one of us!

I've 8 years uninterrupted incident free driving experience and zero NCB. Dolmen.

There's an economy in insuring log books.