Rule I'm not aware of?

Snakeweasel

Hi all, sorry if this is in the wrong place. Just wondering about something that happened me on the way home from work in Sligo yesterday. Whilst taking the third exit off a round about, I entered the roundabout in the correct lane, did all the correct indicating, and just when I was leaving the roundabout a black merc pulls into the roundabout from the second exit causing me to slam on my breaks.

The driver of the merc proceeds to sheepishly point (after I blew him out of it, as they say in our parts) at another black merc ahead of him that has already gone ahead onto the duel carriageway, which has a garda car ahead of it, as if to say he was with them. I then noticed a black Mercedes van/people carrier behind the car that tried to kill me. The only other time I saw a set up like this was in Dublin when the Chinese Vice President was in town, but that time there were gardai on motorbikes with sirens on stopping traffic at every junction.

Am I being very ignorant to some rule of the road that I should know or was the other driver in the wrong like I suspect?

coylemj

Snakeweasel wrote: »

Am I being very ignorant to some rule of the road that I should know or was the other driver in the wrong like I suspect?

No you are not, they have no rights to burst onto the roundabout as a convoy and ignore the rules. That's obviously unless they have a cop on a motorbike to stop the traffic and wave them through which as you say is the norm for such an operation.

Snakeweasel

coylemj wrote: »

No you are not, they have no rights to burst onto the roundabout as a convoy and ignore the rules. That's obviously unless they have a cop on a motorbike to stop the traffic and wave them through which as you say is the norm for such an operation.

That's what I thought, the road junction wasn't even busy, there was only one other car behind me taking that exit, its a roundabout where 90% of the traffic goes straight through.

bk

Probably escorting some politicians. The driver of the black merc was probably a Garda. Maybe even ERU or ARW close protection unit, depending on the importance of the VIP.

Legally you probably didn't break any laws or rules, specially if they were unmarked cars and no lights flashing, etc. However Garda drivers aren't required to follow the rules of the road and in fact are trained in defensive driving. They were likely driving in a four vehicle convoy and were somewhat ignoring the usual rules of the road. If they thought you were trying to cut them off and was a threat, they could quiet legally smash your car out of the way and drive off at speed, or worse!

So strictly speaking it would be a legal grey area. Practically speaking, if you see something that looks like an escorted convoy of dark coloured mercs/bmws, land/range rovers and high end van/people carriers, then it is best to keep out of their way and give them priority, no matter what the law was.

Such convoys are quiet common to see around Dublin City center, Merrion Square, etc. And yes, they don't always have motorbike outriders, again it depends on the importance of the VIP, if they were in a rush or not and if the motorbike unit was available or not.

bk

coylemj wrote: »

No you are not, they have no rights to burst onto the roundabout as a convoy and ignore the rules. That's obviously unless they have a cop on a motorbike to stop the traffic and wave them through which as you say is the norm for such an operation.

As I mentioned above, he was likely a Garda driver and Gardai aren't bound by the rules of the road for obvious reasons.

Snakeweasel

bk wrote: »

Legally you probably didn't break any laws or rules, specially if they were unmarked cars and no lights flashing, etc. However Garda drivers aren't required to follow the rules of the road and in fact are trained in defensive driving. They were likely driving in a four vehicle convoy and were somewhat ignoring the usual rules of the road. If they thought you were trying to cut them off and was a threat, they could quiet legally smash your car out of the way and drive off at speed, or worse!

So strictly speaking it would be a legal grey area. Practically speaking, if you see something that looks like an escorted convoy of dark coloured mercs/bmws, land/range rovers and high end van/people carriers, then it is best to keep out of their way and give them priority, no matter what the law was.

I would completely understand all this if wasn't for the way it happened, the driver was nearly stopped, I was just starting to take my exit when he decided to pull on again. I was indicating for the exit and everything. I only saw the two other dark coloured cars due to having to stop on the roundabout because of the near miss. I had seen the Garda car on my approach, but entering it, there is poor visibility over the roundabout so didnt see the other cars until the last second.

Del2005

bk wrote: »

Probably escorting some politicians. The driver of the black merc was probably a Garda. Maybe even ERU or ARW close protection unit, depending on the importance of the VIP.

Legally you probably didn't break any laws or rules, specially if they were unmarked cars and no lights flashing, etc. However Garda drivers aren't required to follow the rules of the road and in fact are trained in defensive driving. They were likely driving in a four vehicle convoy and were somewhat ignoring the usual rules of the road. If they thought you were trying to cut them off and was a threat, they could quiet legally smash your car out of the way and drive off at speed, or worse!

So strictly speaking it would be a legal grey area. Practically speaking, if you see something that looks like an escorted convoy of dark coloured mercs/bmws, land/range rovers and high end van/people carriers, then it is best to keep out of their way and give them priority, no matter what the law was.

Such convoys are quiet common to see around Dublin City center, Merrion Square, etc. And yes, they don't always have motorbike outriders, again it depends on the importance of the VIP, if they were in a rush or not and if the motorbike unit was available or not.

Gardai can't smash a car off the road unless there is a very good reason, they are exempt from most traffic laws but can still be prosecuted for dangerous driving, and someone driving on a roundabout isn't a treat.

Del2005

Snakeweasel wrote: »

I would completely understand all this if wasn't for the way it happened, the driver was nearly stopped, I was just starting to take my exit when he decided to pull on again. I was indicating for the exit and everything. I only saw the two other dark coloured cars due to having to stop on the roundabout because of the near miss. I had seen the Garda car on my approach, but entering it, there is poor visibility over the roundabout so didnt see the other cars until the last second.

As with all professions there are some good and some bad, unfortunately a lot of Gardai let the power get to their heads and there isn't enough oversight to weed them out. You just met the wrong Guard at the wrong time.

seamus

Legally speaking it wouldn't be grey area at all. In the event of a collision the other vehicle would be at fault for failing to yield.

Being a Garda driver makes them immune from criminal consequences of their driving (up to a limit), but civil consequences are still wide open. This would be open and shut since you were on the roundabout and therefore had right of way. Being a Garda does not confer right-of-way on any vehicle. Even official vehicles with lights and sirens blaring are given right of way by convention, not by law.

What probably happened is that the driver was a little bit in another world driving in convoy, the rest of the vehicles went on ahead and he just followed them, being used to having the traffic stopped for him. Or, a motorbike outrider was supposed to stop, but made the wrong call and decided the roundabout was empty enough to bull on without stopping.

Theanswers

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Here is your answer.

coylemj

bk wrote: »

As I mentioned above, he was likely a Garda driver and Gardai aren't bound by the rules of the road for obvious reasons.

Sorry, what's 'obvious' about allowing Garda drivers to drive as they please? There are stated exceptions for Gardai - they don't have to observe speed limits, they don't have to wear seat belts and they can park on yellow lines and on clearways.

Other than that (there's probably a few others like traffic lights), they have to observe the same rules as the rest of us, which includes giving way to cars already on a roundabout. Garda drivers can and have been charged with dangerous and drunk driving, they do not have carte blanche to drive as they please.

bk

Del2005 wrote: »

Gardai can't smash a car off the road unless there is a very good reason, they are exempt from most traffic laws but can still be prosecuted for dangerous driving, and someone driving on a roundabout isn't a treat.

I'm not suggesting they would for just any reason. I'm just pointing out that they are trained in defensive driving and if they felt there was a genuine threat, they would do whatever it takes to get out of the situation.

Clearly this wasn't such a situation, which is why the Garda driver was sheepish about the situation, rather then giving the OP a bollocking for honking him out * He knew he messed up in the situation.

* Even if the OP was in the right, many Gardai would (wrongly) giving you a bollocking for honking them out.

savagethegoat

Defensive Driving and Garda driving training are two entirely different things.

coylemj

savagethegoat wrote: »

Defensive Driving and Garda driving training are two entirely different things.

+1 Civilians drive defensively when in the vicinity of Garda cars.