Water Conservation Grant

chahop

Hi

Can you please help me out, why does a person need to register with Irish water to collect this grant ? 
The grant is for water conservation and not for paying the water bill is it not ?

TheChizler

I think the idea is that you'll use the money to install water-saving devices. It's not audited though so you're technically free to do with it what you wish. From an administrative point of view by registering with IW and receiving a WPRN and registration number they can restrict the grant to just one per water-using household. There are other obvious benefits to making it a requirement too, as it essentially crowdsources filling in details of the IW customer base.

chahop

TheChizler wrote: »

I think the idea is that you'll use the money to install water-saving devices. It's not audited though so you're technically free to do with it what you wish. From an administrative point of view by registering with IW and receiving a WPRN and registration number they can restrict the grant to just one per water-using household. There are other obvious benefits to making it a requirement too, as it essentially crowdsources filling in details of the IW customer base.

Cheers but surely that cant be a legal requirement to receive this state water conservation grant ? But all info I can find says that you need to register with Irish Water first, seems a bit suss.

TheChizler

It's exactly a legal requirement!

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2014/en/act/pub/0044/print.html#sec5

Water Services Act 2014 wrote:

Water conservation grant

5. (1) The Minister may, after consultation with the Minister for Social Protection and subject to such regulations as may be made by the Minister under subsection (5), pay, out of moneys provided by the Oireachtas, an annual grant to a person in respect of a dwelling for the purposes of water conservation.

(2) A grant under this section payable in respect of the year 2015 shall only be paid where the occupier of a dwelling—

(a) has, not later than such date as the Minister specifies by order, registered with Irish Water details of the water supply to the dwelling and the treatment of waste water discharged from the dwelling, and

(b) has provided to the Minister for Social Protection information specified under regulations made under subsection (5).

(3) For the purposes of this section, a person shall be regarded as the occupier of a dwelling if for reasons of physical or intellectual disability he or she is not resident in that dwelling, other than where the dwelling is rented to another person.

(4) Irish Water shall send to the Minister for Social Protection particulars in relation to persons (whether or not they are customers of Irish Water) drawn from the particulars of registration received by it in respect of the registration process referred to in subsection (2)(a), which particulars shall be sent at the time and in the form and manner agreed between Irish Water and the Minister for Social Protection.

(5) The Minister may make regulations for the purposes of this section to provide for the following:

(a) the amount of the grant;

(b) eligibility criteria;

(c) application procedures;

(d) information to be provided by persons making an application under this section;

(e) general administration procedures;

(f) any consequential or ancillary matters that the Minister considers necessary for the proper functioning of the scheme.

Tow

AFAIK the 'grant' has nothing to do with Irish Water. If you have your own well you can still apply for it.

chahop

Thank you again Chizler, for the info and the quick response.

I find this all a bit strange, the state dont require proof that you use the money for water conservation purposes but do require that you become a customer of Irish water. Maybe they got the name of the grant wrong or something.

chahop

Tow wrote: »

AFAIK the 'grant' has nothing to do with Irish Water. If you have your own well you can still apply for it.

Tow

But as above the only legal requirement (apart from living in the home) is to be registered with Irish water, so it seems to have everything to do with Irish Water Ltd and nothing to do with water conservation. 

Tow

I believe you need to register with Irish water that you have your own water supply and waste system, if not they just assume they are supplying you.  The whole grant system like all government FUBARs has grew in to a huge money sucking black hole.  The setup and admin cost will probably cost €50 per refund.  Social Welfare  threw a fit when they were told they had to administer it and were getting no extra funding to do so.

Irish Water: Allanah

Hi chahop,

Thank you for your query.

chahop wrote: »

Can you please help me out, why does a person need to register with Irish water to collect this grant ?
The grant is for water conservation and not for paying the water bill is it not ?

The Government has determined that all households where a person has their primary residence are eligible for the Water Conservation Grant. The grant is intended to assist householders in reducing their water usage through plumbing repairs or purchasing more water efficient fittings and appliances. The grant can therefore reduce costs for both customers of Irish Water and those households with their own supplies, on group water schemes or with their own wastewater treatment arrangements.

The Department of Social Protection will be communicating separately with householders from late August or September setting out the grant application and payment process for 2015. Please visit www.watergrant.ie for the latest information on the grant.

If you have any further queries, please don't hesitate to ask.

Kind regards,
Allanah

Zamboni

It is a bribe for your data.

There is no criteria other than providing your data to Irish Water.

There is no audit of how you use the money. Therefore, it has nothing to do with conservation.

The singular goal is to enhance IW database.

You are being bribed with your own paid income taxes.

chahop

Allanah

Thank you for your reply.

What I am trying to find out is, is it possible to claim this grant without registering with Irish water ? If not why not ? Surely one can make water conservation improvements without being registered with Irish Water Ltd.
Is this grant more of a grant to register with Irish Water than a water conservation grant ? If so how is it legal ?

chahop

Zamboni

This is what I am trying to find out. Looks like you are correct, you can spent the money on whatever you want as long as you register.

Zamboni wrote: »

It is a bribe for your data.

There is no criteria other than providing your data to Irish Water.

There is no audit of how you use the money. Therefore, it has nothing to do with conservation.

The singular goal is to enhance IW database.

You are being bribed with your own paid income taxes.

Victor

chahop wrote: »

Can you please help me out, why does a person need to register with Irish water to collect this grant ?

Because those are the rules that the government set out. They are giving people money, they want a return for that money. I'm sure they could find better things to be spending the money on.

It will also cut down on fraud - only people entitled tot he grant will get it.

Irish Water has no control over the grant or those rules.

That said, registering will (a) help Irish Water put in place water monitoring processes (b) focuses the minds of water users.

chahop wrote:

the state dont require proof that you use the money for water conservation purposes but do require that you become a customer of Irish water.

Not a customer, but that you are registered with them. Some people will have a zero liability to Irish Water, but still need to be registered, so that zero liability is explicit.

Victor

chahop wrote: »

Thank you again Chizler, for the info and the quick response.

I find this all a bit strange, the state dont require proof that you use the money for water conservation purposes but do require that you become a customer of Irish water. Maybe they got the name of the grant wrong or something.

A name is merely a name.

chahop wrote: »

What I am trying to find out is, is it possible to claim this grant without registering with Irish water ? If not why not ?

No, its not possible. Them's the rules.

chahop wrote: »

Irish Water Ltd.

The name of the entity seems to be Irish Water, not Irish Water Ltd.

chahop wrote: »

Is this grant more of a grant to register with Irish Water than a water conservation grant ? If so how is it legal ?

You've already been given a  link to the legislation. If you have a problem with parliamentary democracy, that's not our problem.

deepspeed

TheChizler wrote: »

It's exactly a legal requirement!

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2014/en/act/pub/0044/print.html#sec5

Originally posted by Water Services Act 2014

Water conservation grant

5. (1) The Minister may, after consultation with the Minister for Social Protection and subject to such regulations as may be made by the Minister under subsection (5), pay, out of moneys provided by the Oireachtas, an annual grant to a person in respect of a dwelling for the purposes of water conservation.

(2) A grant under this section payable in respect of the year 2015 shall only be paid where the occupier of a dwelling—

(a) has, not later than such date as the Minister specifies by order, registered with Irish Water details of the water supply to the dwelling and the treatment of waste water discharged from the dwelling, and

(b) has provided to the Minister for Social Protection information specified under regulations made under subsection (5).

I'm not a lawyer - but my reading of the Act above is that based on section (2) - the requirement to register is only valid for "the year 2015".

So, would I be correct in stating that the grant would be claimable in respect of other years (2016/17/18), regardless of (2)(a) which is the 'requirement to register' text, as the Act does not provide for any obligation to register after the year 2015.

Of course, the Act can be modified in the future to fit.......

TheChizler

It does say annual so I don't think you could argue you can claim for future years if that's what you're saying. I'm sure the act will be updated, it's a bit barebones at the moment. Provisions might be made for making sure the money is spent on water conservation or something like that. They don't have the infrastructure, or even a plan it looks like, to make that possible currently.

chahop

Yeah, hard to see how they can pass this off as a water conservation grant and not just another €100 payment to Irish water ltd.

Can someone tell me is it Irish water ltd or Irish water, appears to be Irish Water ltd. Either way doesn't make much difference to me.

Victor

I know the government are giving out our money to us to give to Irish water (ltd or not) and want a return (I too would like a return) but shoveling more money at this company will not achieve a return for either the government or its citizens.
The main concern of mine is this wastage, the the state are spending about €150 per household just to get people to register with this company and that this will be seen for what it is by the EU, a (scam)direct state subsidy for Irish Water ltd. 

There is deception going on here, you said a name is merely a name, there is a reason it is called the water conservation grant when it clearly has nothing to do with water conservation (somebody is being scammed here, either us or the EU). 

Irish Water: Allanah

Hi Chahop,

Thanks for your query.

chahop wrote: »

What I am trying to find out is, is it possible to claim this grant without registering with Irish water ? If not why not ? Surely one can make water conservation improvements without being registered with Irish Water Ltd.

As previously announced by government, it is not possible to claim the water conservation grant without registering with Irish Water. This is also set out under the water services act 2014, which states that households must have registered with Irish Water by June 30th in order to be eligible to claim the Water Conservation Grant for 2015.

chahop wrote: »

Is this grant more of a grant to register with Irish Water than a water conservation grant ? If so how is it legal ?

This Water Conservation Grant is paid and administered by the Department of Social Protection, not Irish Water, for the latest information please visit www.watergrant.ie

I hope this helps. Please feel free to contact us again should you have any further queries.

Kind regards,
Allanah

vicadd

Irish Water: Allanah wrote: »

As previously announced by government, it is not possible to claim the water conservation grant without registering with Irish Water. This is also set out under the water services act 2014, which states that households must have registered with Irish Water by June 30th in order to be eligible to claim the Water Conservation Grant for 2015.

I haven't registered with Irish Water, does that mean too late now to get €100 grant?
Therefore no point in registering now?

Irish Water: Allanah

Hi vicadd,

vicadd wrote: »

I haven't registered with Irish Water, does that mean too late now to get 100 grant?
Therefore no point in registering now?

As the deadline has passed, the opportunity to be eligible for the 2015 Water Conservation Grant is no longer available. However, you can still register with Irish Water by phone (1890 448 448) or online (here). By registering with us, we can ensure accurate billing.

Please feel free to contact us again, should you have any further queries.

Kind regards,
Allanah

vertmann

So what about people who've only just bought a house and weren't in a position to register for this grant?

Irish Water: Kim

Hi vertmann,

Thanks for your query.

vertmann wrote: »

So what about people who've only just bought a house and weren't in a position to register for this grant?

Customers registering after 30th of June 2015 will not qualify for this years conservation grant; however details of the 2016 Water Conservation Grant will be communicated after the 2015 process is completed by the Department of Social Protection.

Can you confirm if you registered the details of your primary residence with Irish Water before June 30th 2015? Also, can you confirm if you contacted Irish Water to update your details if/when you moved properties?

If so, I can confirm that you are eligible for the grant.

I hope this information helps.

If you have any further queries, please don't hesitate to ask.

Kind regards,
Kim