http://www.50womentokona.org/

peter kern

not really sure why a bloke has to post this ( does this show that females dont care ? )

anyway.

but the fact is that for ironman distance races we are looking at a female participation of a round 15% in europe which is extremely low ( much lower than in north america) .


I see pros and cons for this http://www.50womentokona.org/

so what do boardies think?

cart man

I believe that both men and women should get the same proportional share that they make up in races, ie if women make up 60% of the professional ranks then they should get 60% of the professional slots and so forth.

tunney

peter kern wrote: »

not really sure why a bloke has to post this ( does this show that females dont care ? )

anyway.

but the fact is that for ironman distance races we are looking at a female participation of a round 15% in europe which is extremely low ( much lower than in north america) .


I see pros and cons for this http://www.50womentokona.org/

so what do boardies think?

This is not just Tri Peter it is every sport.

I coach 4,5,6 year old girls in football and camogie.
The sexism and intolerance shown by the coaches of the boys to both the girls and their coaches is infuriating. It nearly came to blows on Saturday. I wasn't involved however. Otherwise....

"We need that equipment for the boys."
"But its ours and we are using it"
"Cop on. Its only girls"

Its all sports bar really tennis - "its just the girls".

Yes there are arguments for speed, aggression and strength (equal rights does not mean being equal) and whatever about at the elite level, at small kids stage........

However as I was seething Sunday evening I thought back to the presentation of medals that was done by female county players. How many times have I taken Aoibhe to Croke park to see the mens hurling and football. Now how many times have I taken her to the ladies?

We are all culpable to some degree.

To be clear all of the above is individuals acting out their prejudices. On the ground and officially there is huge support for womens participation. The Games Promotion Officer in the club is excellent at ensuring the girls get back up.

peter kern

thanksfully in tri we are a good bit ahead of 17th century GAA ( one of the reasons i can t take that sport serious)

tunney

peter kern wrote: »

thanksfully in tri we are a good bit ahead of 17th century GAA ( one of the reasons i can t take that sport serious)

Please do name one area in which tri has advanced gender equality further?
Two if you are feeling really brave.

sconhome

peter kern wrote: »

thanksfully in tri we are a good bit ahead of 17th century GAA ( one of the reasons i can t take that sport serious)

You should try play hurling.

You'd realise how serious it is then

sconhome

Re OP if they open the extra x15 slots for women is it going to deepen the field or just fill for the sake of filling?

Dory Dory

How did WTC come up with 50 for men and 35 for women? Has it always been 50/35, or is that a sliding number based on percentage of participation men vs women which will increase as women participation (pro only? or non-pro as well?) increases? Or is this an arbitrary number?

pgibbo

Anyone know who Chrissie was referencing yesterday when she said WTC had let 2 women enter Kona this year without qualifying?

Oryx

What way are the prize purses divided? Is that equal?

mossym

pgibbo wrote: »

Anyone know who Chrissie was referencing yesterday when she said WTC had let 2 women enter Kona this year without qualifying?

i didn't catch the names, but they were publicly known according to some replies, there was some comments that they were female equivalents to ramsey/heinz ward rather than being related to the 50 women initiative.

they were spots awarded to the women 4 tri group




Towards this goal, three volunteer board members will participate in this October's IRONMAN World Championship in Kona in partnership with IRONMAN Foundation, with the aim of raising $75,000 to achieve these goals

Originally from: http://www.ironman.com/triathlon/news/articles/2015/06/women-for-tri-launches-fundraising-campaign.aspx#ixzz3dzj4Tbj8

Oryx

I had already signed the petition for this before I saw this thread. Women are not treated equally in any sport. At. All. (Ok yeah, beach volleyball is popular. Cant think why). But seriously, I don't know why this is. Maybe women don't compete enough. Maybe they don't watch it enough and there isn't the advertising revenue. But that's a kind of self fulfilling thing. I reckon if you build it, they will come. The Olympics gave fairly equal coverage in most sports (though it did seem to be the pretty sports where women are in sparkles that got the most attention), but when it comes to the typically popular team sports, women are nowhere to be seen, and they are not encouraged to enter any of the sports at a competitive level. Katie Taylor only really came to prominence because of the Olympics, with yet again, their more balanced coverage. I think lack of female participation and visibility has so much to do with the generations that were fed the myth that women were the weaker sex, who needed to be given shorter races, were even banned from marathon running. At least with tri, there are no 'pink it and shrink it' short distances stipulated for women. We race the same distance along with the guys.


I had felt that triathlon was fairly inclusive, and generally, winners in both genders are given coverage (by wtc at least). But Aileen Reid does well in London and the irish media pretty comprehensively ignored her. It would be argued that there are less female participants in tri, thus the entry slots for wtc pros reflect that, but I hope that with the upswell in the female AG ranks of tri, that this is going to change, that advertisers will see the audience that is out there for women in the sport. It has to change, it needs to change, and there is no valid reason for it not to change.

tunney

Oryx wrote: »

I had already signed the petition for this before I saw this thread. Women are not treated equally in any sport. At. All. (Ok yeah, beach volleyball is popular. Cant think why). But seriously, I don't know why this is. Maybe women don't compete enough. Maybe they don't watch it enough and there isn't the advertising revenue. But that's a kind of self fulfilling thing. I reckon if you build it, they will come. The Olympics gave fairly equal coverage in most sports (though it did seem to be the pretty sports where women are in sparkles that got the most attention), but when it comes to the typically popular team sports, women are nowhere to be seen, and they are not encouraged to enter any of the sports at a competitive level. Katie Taylor only really came to prominence because of the Olympics, with yet again, their more balanced coverage. I think lack of female participation and visibility has so much to do with the generations that were fed the myth that women were the weaker sex, who needed to be given shorter races, were even banned from marathon running. At least with tri, there are no 'pink it and shrink it' short distances stipulated for women. We race the same distance along with the guys.


I had felt that triathlon was fairly inclusive, and generally, winners in both genders are given coverage (by wtc at least). But Aileen Reid does well in London and the irish media pretty comprehensively ignored her. It would be argued that there are less female participants in tri, thus the entry slots for wtc pros reflect that, but I hope that with the upswell in the female AG ranks of tri, that this is going to change, that advertisers will see the audience that is out there for women in the sport. It has to change, it needs to change, and there is no valid reason for it not to change.

Tennis? Would we agree tennis is fairly equal?

tunney

tunney wrote: »

Please do name one area in which tri has advanced gender equality further?
Two if you are feeling really brave.

Just in case you missed this Peter.

pgibbo

Eurosport are showing a lot of the matches from the womens soccer world cup. It's a step in the right direction.

TG4 show a bit of the ladies GAA but not a huge amount as the demand isn't there I guess. The lack of crowds at the games shows that.

In relation to tennis, I believe they have equal prize money for a good few years now. Womens tennis is usually better than the mens.

Dory Dory

Here's an explanation of the history of pro slots at Kona and counter arguments.

http://www.outsideonline.com/1964906/fight-gender-equality-ironman

Oryx

tunney wrote: »

Tennis? Would we agree tennis is fairly equal?

Ill give you that one.

Please do name one area in which tri has advanced gender equality further?
Two if you are feeling really brave.

No bare torsos in transition. :P

cart man

pgibbo wrote:

In relation to tennis, I believe they have equal prize money for a good few years now. Womens tennis is usually better than the mens.

The prize money is equal but the men have to play more sets so one could argue they are not equal. It is like in golf where they play from closer tee boxes, at least in Tri the distances are the same.

FWIW I think women's is better than men's, there is more skill needed and less reliance on a big serve.

peter kern

tunney wrote: »

Please do name one area in which tri has advanced gender equality further?
Two if you are feeling really brave.

the current itu president is female. with a very high female represnetation http://www.triathlon.org/about/itu_executive_board
( i would almost bet 50 euro gaa s board dosnt have that many females ;-)

triathlon was one of the earlier sports with equal price money.

how many sports have mixed gender relays at world champion chip level ?

how many gaa clubs would have females as chairperson ( in tri they exist only in dublin belpark and 3d would come to mind )



when chirssie was racing she was prob the superstar in tri , again thats not something many sports have gwen jorgensen i guess will soon be mentioned in the same sentence as the brownlees and gomez.

I hope that helps a bit

btw since i get accused that iam contra GAA cycling would be in the same league as GAA

tunney

peter kern wrote: »

the current itu president is female. with a very high female represnetation http://www.triathlon.org/about/itu_executive_board
( i would almost bet 50 euro gaa s board dosnt have that many females ;-)

triathlon was one of the earlier sports with equal price money.

how many sports have mixed gender relays at world champion chip level ?

how many gaa clubs would have females as chairperson ( in tri they exist only in dublin belpark and 3d would come to mind )



when chirssie was racing she was prob the superstar in tri , again thats not something many sports have gwen jorgensen i guess will soon be mentioned in the same sentence as the brownlees and gomez.

I hope that helps a bit

btw since i get accused that iam contra GAA cycling would be in the same league as GAA

You must have known when you typed that response that it was woefully weak and really didn't back up the "tri is great for gender balance" at all.

FYI Phoenix had Aoife O'Connor as chairperson for four years.

shotgunmcos

tunney wrote: »

You must have known when you typed that response that it was woefully weak and really didn't back up the "tri is great for gender balance" at all.

FYI Phoenix had Aoife O'Connor as chairperson for four years.

Limerick Triathlon Club also currently has a Sinead Walsh as Chairperson

Oryx

Our club has had an all female committee for the last few years.

peter kern

tunney wrote: »

You must have known when you typed that response that it was woefully weak and really didn't back up the "tri is great for gender balance" at all.

FYI Phoenix had Aoife O'Connor as chairperson for four years.

there you go you are supporting my argument ;-)

i did not say it was great I said its much better than 17 century sports like gaa and cycling. where females are totally treated 2nd class.
as you described very nicely.

peter kern

Oryx wrote: »

Our club has had an all female committee for the last few years.

did that increase female participation in your club?

Oryx

peter kern wrote: »

did that increase female participation in your club?

Honestly? I think its increased the men too.

But overall the new membership has a pretty even gender split.

cunavalos

peter kern wrote: »

thanksfully in tri we are a good bit ahead of 17th century GAA ( one of the reasons i can t take that sport serious)

It is impossible for the gaa to demonstrate equality when it is not the governing body for the female sports.

The origins of the split are historical and the fault does not lie entirely with the GAA and there is a reluctance by many within the Ladies Gaelic Football Association (LGFA) and The Camogie Association to join the main GAA organisation.

The Lost Sheep

peter kern wrote: »

the current itu president is female. with a very high female represnetation http://www.triathlon.org/about/itu_executive_board
(i would almost bet 50 euro gaa s board dosnt have that many females ;-)

triathlon was one of the earlier sports with equal price money.

how many sports have mixed gender relays at world champion chip level?

how many gaa clubs would have females as chairperson (in tri they exist only in dublin belpark and 3d would come to mind)

when chirssie was racing she was prob the superstar in tri, again thats not something many sports have gwen jorgensen i guess will soon be mentioned in the same sentence as the brownlees and gomez.

I hope that helps a bit

btw since i get accused that iam contra GAA cycling would be in the same league as GAA

What other sports do you think should also have mixed gender relays?
I wouldnt know across the country how many clubs have female members as chair but there is several women in very prominent positions across the country. Tyrone chairperson is female.

peter kern wrote: »

there you go you are supporting my argument ;-)

i did not say it was great I said its much better than 17 century sports like gaa and cycling. where females are totally treated 2nd class.
as you described very nicely.

17th century sports :rolleyes: Females are not treated as second class citizens. How are they?

peter kern

ok for the sake of bringing the thread back on track lets agree GAA is a fantastic sport and gender balanced.

the question of the thread is more should female participation be encouraged form the top as the 50femalestokona would like to see or is there better ways to increase female participation?

tunney

peter kern wrote: »

ok for the sake of bringing the thread back on track lets agree GAA is a fantastic sport and gender balanced.

the question of the thread is more should female participation be encouraged form the top as the 50femalestokona would like to see or is there better ways to increase female participation?

I think you need to define participation.
It *could* mean women who do 1 race, or 1 season
Or it *could* mean something more long term

?

peter kern

tunney wrote: »

I think you need to define participation.
It *could* mean women who do 1 race, or 1 season
Or it *could* mean something more long term

?

i guess both parts need to be addressed and i think you are right that they need to be addressed differently ( at the same time is there statistics that show females stay shorter in the sport than males ? )