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Second Chance Student?
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23-06-2015 12:48pm#1
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If you jumped into second year of a level 7 you may would have to request a review of the income as you are currently over the threshold.
Also, you must be entering second year of a level 8 to be eligible as well. You are not eligible for year 1 of a level 8 unless you qualify at level 7.
Sorry I'm lost on this
I would be eligible to enter either Level 8 or Level 7, probably second year of either. We were actually advised from our lecturer to push to get into third year. I'd assume I'm eligible anyways in getting the maximum of 400 points from my level 6 PLC.
I'm just not sure on their rules. If I was to enter a Level 8 course, (after dropping out of a level 7 in 2009), would I qualify in that respect?
If I was to enter second year of a Level 7 course, would that mean I'm still progressing from the 2009 one?0 -
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ConfusedGuy92 wrote: »At the end of first year. So really it was 2010 that I dropped out.
It looks like this will be my only problem now. I saw that the cut off age is 23 to be classed as an independent student. As I will (apparently) be getting the full BTEA, I'd be moved out from my parents home from September onwards of this year, which could mean I can be classed as independent for next year and it won't be means tested to my parents. I'll probably be able to get a student loan to cover me for the first year and the grant would pay the fees for the second year.
So that leaves this as the problem. SUSI has stopped replying to my emails which didn't make too much difference because all they were doing was copy and pasting vague blocks of text which I was asking for clarification on to no avail.
So the summary is:-
I attended a Level 7 course for the full 2009/2010 year before dropping out.
I returned to college for a Level 5 course in 2013/2014.
I then did a Level 6 course in 2014/2015.
I want to do a Level 7 course now in Games Development, which is what I'm intending to move on into, but if Level 7 is a problem I could do a Level 8 course in Computing.
To quote the good Reverend Lovejoy; short answer, "yes" with an "if." Long answer, "no" with a "but." You can use the below points to fight your case with SUSI, the SUSI Appeal Board or eventually the Dept. of Education if it comes to it. In my experience (which is not dissimilar to yours) eligibility is unfortunately not black or white and many of us (myself included) had to jump into courses without a guarantee of eligibility with the full knowledge that the finances just weren't there to complete the studies without grant assistance...
First off I can't see any reason it should make a difference whether you do a level 7 or level 8. Second off you are not a so-called Second Chance Student as you did have the two FETAC awards during your 5-year break. However you can demonstrate and IMO argue for progression - section 15 is the relevant bit of the official Student Grant Scheme 2015 act for you (did you want a side of a Law Degree with your Games Development course?
)15.(b) Having previously attended, but not completed, any undergraduate course at Level 6 or 7 of the framework of qualifications, or equivalent, an applicant shall—
(i) be required to complete an equivalent period of study on an approved undergraduate course at Level 6 or 7 of the framework of qualifications before being eligible to be considered for a grant, or
(ii) be required to complete an equivalent period of study on an approved undergraduate course at Level 8 of the framework of qualifications before being eligible to be considered for a grant, or
(iii) be eligible to be considered for a grant to pursue an approved post leaving certificate course where no more than one year was completed on an undergraduate course at Level 6 or 7 of the framework of qualifications, or
(iv) be required to complete an equivalent period of study on an approved post leaving certificate course where more than one year was completed on any undergraduate course at Level 6 or 7 of the framework of qualifications, or equivalent, before being eligible to be considered for a grant, or
(v) be eligible to be considered for a grant to pursue an approved postgraduate course.
i.e. having attended Year 1 of the Level 7 course back in 2009/2010, you subsequently completed an equivalent period of study on an approved undergraduate course at your own cost/without SUSI funding (I'm referring to your Level 6 FETAC course, which on the NFQ scale should be equivalent to Year 1 of a Level 7 course). Which by my reckoning renders you eligible subject to 17.(4):17.(4) The progression conditions in respect of study at Level 7 of the framework of qualifications are as follows—
(a) a student or tuition student who is entering for the first time a course leading to a higher education and training award, and who wishes to pursue an approved course at Level 7 of the framework of qualifi- cations, shall be eligible for a grant;
(b) a student or tuition student is ineligible if he or she already holds a third level qualification at or above Level 7 of the framework of qualifications, or equivalent;
(c) a student or tuition student who already holds a higher education and training award at Level 6 of the framework of qualifications or equivalent and is progressing to an approved course at Level 7 of the framework of qualifications shall be eligible for a grant in respect of a maximum of two years of an approved course at Level 7 of the framework of qualifications;
(d) a student or tuition student who completed part of a course at Level 6 of the framework of qualifications or equivalent and gains admission through exemption to the second or subsequent year of an approved course at Level 7 of the framework of qualifications shall be eligible for a grant;
Hence, if you can manage to gain direct entry to year 2 or 3 of the course you would demonstrate progression in your studies and also satisfy (c) from above in that you would be eligible for 2 years of grant assistance (i.e. Year 2 and Year 3 of the Level 7 course). I am open to correction from more knowledgeable posters on this, especially someone who has achieved a grant using these articles.
However, as Sup08 said, the issue of SUSI determining you to be over the reckonable income limit still exists. Which you will need to address if you intends on starting your degree in September 2015/2016 as for that year and all subsequent years of the degree you will be classed as a dependent student regardless of whether you move out and become independent in the interim. Remember that the reckonable income can include:
(a) Income from employment (including benefit-in-kind and directorships),
(b) Social welfare payments,
(c) Payments from other government departments or state agencies,
(d) Self-employment or farming,
(e) Rental and other income from land and property,
(f) Income from pensions other than the social welfare state pension,
(g) Income from savings, deposit accounts and investments,
(h) Income from maintenance arrangements,
(i) Lump sum payments from retirement and redundancy,
(j) Income from the disposal of assets or rights,
(k) Gifts and inheritances,
(l) Income from other sources not mentioned above.
and as was previously said, SUSI have access to information from other government bodies regarding all of the above.
If you decide to delay starting college till September 2016/2017 the income factor should not be an issue provided you move out and (most importantly) manage to get proof of independent living no later than 1st October of this year. I have noticed that they can be very picky about the type of proof which can be difficult to obtain if, like most of us, you intend to move out into a houseshare where getting a utility bill/rental contract in your name can prove very difficult. I would assume your independent income would be well under the applicable thresholds. Only sucky part is sitting around twiddling your thumbs for a year when you could be studying...0 -
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sambucus nigra wrote: »Unfortunately on that I am 100% certain, even if you don't apply for assistance to SUSI for 2015/2016, move out and pay for accommodation/fees by yourself etc you will still be classed as a Dependent student when you apply to SUSI for 2016/2017 and 2017/2018 (and 2018/2019 if going for the level 8, which doesn't change anything afaik) as you were Dependent when you started back to undergraduate studies (i.e. that you were still living at home in October 2014). It really is the case that you have to move out and establish Independence a full year before going back to college to receive SUSI assistance. This isn't Second Chance/Progression, this is to do with your classification at point of entry/reentry to third-level education:
If you were to find a job and move out for a year, would it be the end of the world? Annoying, yes... I did just this for a couple of years until I became eligible for SUSI assistance as third level just wasn't an option for me otherwise. Almost killed me... and I'm still recovering bits of my soul to this day...
You could use the year for self-directed study in your spare time to bolster your existing knowledge and do your damnedest to gain direct entry to year 3 of the degree. With your FETAC's you might even stand a chance of a job somewhat relevant to your field. Once your individual income doesn't exceed the €49,840 threshold you would receive the full student contribution from SUSI.
Other options, part-time/evening/online courses?
Get onto your university/Institute of Technology to ascertain how feasible direct entry to Year 3 of the degree is for September 2015 ... that way you would only have to pay for one years worth of student contribution via part time job / loan.
Lastly, maybe you could apply to the Student Assistance Fund at your chosen university/IoT? They may well be able to assist, especially in cases where there is obvious financial hardship and academic excellence on the part of the applicant.
Unfortunately, as far as college goes, that would be the end of the world since my BTEA would be wiped if I got a job for a year.
So even though every single aspect of my entire situation would be changed, it wouldn't matter because I started college already? I can't even think of a single reason as to why that is.
I'll try the Student Assistance Fund thing. Failing that, it might just be time to draw a line under it all and ship of to the UK for college. The system in Ireland is so amazing, but for some reason I just have always been out of reach of it. It was the case when I was 17, is the case when I'm 23. I'd have preferred to have studied in Ireland (also cause I already paid my despot on the house) but from the looks of everything, I won't be eligible for a grant any year and I won't be able to get BTEA and pay my student contribution any year. I'd be relying on finding work once I got to college which, if I was unable to do so in week 1, the house of cards falls down as I can't pay my rent without it.
This year I guess I'll try and get a job and move out. That eh....sounds enjoyable. I just hate that I waited like 3 years until I was eligible for BTEA (on the advice of my Jobs Club course runner). I then did a PLC course so I could sort of "transition" back into education. I do fantastic in that, but it doesn't matter that I've been waiting 5 years to get into college, have a couple of certs under my belt etc. because something is always going to hold me back from getting what every 17 year old fresh out of school gets. Easy to bitch and moan but fuk it, if people are going to be handing out money to you for free you can't stop and say "Well Steve got more?". 0 -
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