Advice

marklynch065

Hi guys,

I'm just looking for some advice. I'm a 27 year old guy (almost 28) and I am still in the closet. However I feel I owe it to myself at this stage to just come out. All my life I have hidden being gay from family/friends, but for very valid reasons. My family wouldn't be overly homophobic but some of my friends are. Infact my two best friends made it perfectly clear that they were voting no in the referendum and its attitudes like this that have caused me to put my love life on hold. I know some people will say these guys arn't your friends if they can't accept you, but I've known them all my life and they are like my brothers.

My biggest fear right now is that when I do decide to come out other gay guys will think I'm odd for my lack of relationships. I feel I have alot to offer: great job, friendly, in shape and without sounding bigheaded I've been described as goodlooking. I would have came out years ago if things were different, I'm only getting the courage now. Would me coming out so late be a turn off amongst other gay guys? I have no gay friends so I have no one else to ask.
Thanks so much for any advice.
Mark

Peregrinus

Gay or straight, you would definitely be a bit unusual on the dating scene in never having had any kind of romantic relationship at the age of 27.

Unusual, but not unique. And perhaps on the gay scene there would be a readier understanding of your situation; you aren't the first to have your romantic development slowed by the negatives attitudes of others to your sexuality, and by your own concerns about coming out.

Your homophobic friends will either man up and reconsider their own homophobic attitudes when faced with the reality that someone they know and care about is gay, or they will cease to be your friends. The first outcome is greatly to be preferred though, frankly, either outcome is better than the current state of affairs. But you know that already.

When you come out you'll make new friends. Gay friends, and not all of them will be romantic prospects. They can help you negotiate your way through a late start to active dating and romance. As I say, you won't be the first to come onto the gay scene in these particular circumstances.

ongarboy

I would say that your lack of experience will not be a hindrance as all gay people apart from a tiny and very lucky minority would have varying lengths of their teens or indeed 20s closeted so would empathize the difficulties of loneliness, isolation and not being with other guys while in the closet.

I think a bigger priority for you right now would be working on your own relationship with yourself rather than finding a partner. It's 2015 and Ireland has voted Yes! I'm not naive to say homophobia has disappeared but you are living in a much more open and accepting country. Many people who voted yes were those who previously viewed LGBTs suspiciously but once a loved one or someone they knew came out, their views changed. Maybe your friends (if they really were genuine friends) would modify their views too? If not, it becomes important to establish a new circle of friends. Seek out social clubs or groups in your area. Dublin has many active outdoor leisure and sporting groups that are great for making new friends.

It's when you start being comfortable with yourself and feeling liberated as you are no longer living a lie that you become more appealing as a friend and indeed a potential partner to someone. People who are out prefer to be friends or partners with other out people as they cannot go back to living closet-like lives to appease their closet friend/partner etc. Why limit your options?

marklynch065

Guys thank you both for your replies! I really appreciate you taking the time getting back to me because I honestly wasn't expecting any feedback. I will definitely take what you both said on board. It is just so frustrating. I've spent all this time in the closet essentially protecting myself only to discover I have a whole new set of challenges to face upon coming out.

I would love to have started dating/meeting guys a lot sooner but to be honest this was just not possible. I had/still have too many social pressures on me that drive me into the closet. I do intend on coming out tho and I guess I'm just working up the confidence to do so. Some of the things my friends have said about gay people have been very harsh and it hurts to hear this from those you love the most.

I know at 27/28 I'm still young but I've read that in gay culture you are over the hill by 30! I mean come on is this for real? It's as if I have to face a whole new set of ****ty challenges upon coming out too e.g. giving guys reasons as to my lack of experience, agism...

Anyhow I know I'm ranting now and I'm definitely overthinking the whole situation. I guess talking about it is the first step.

Once again thank you for listening to me!
Mark

Aard

You might find that your friends change their minds about homosexuality once you come out. Many if not most people have a certain image of what gay guys are like....that probably is quite generalised and bordering on stereotype.

As for the age -- I doubt anybody would bat an eyelid tbh. We all know that people come out at different ages. And that 30 years being over the hill thing is just nonsense!

You owe it to youself OP and there's no better time than now

jobbridge4life

Hi OP.

In many ways my story is the opposite of your own. I am 27 (but a million zillion miles from 28 if anyone asks) and I have been out since I was 15. I've been in a LTR with the same guy since I was 19 and 7 days old. Even though we are in some regards coming from either end of the spectrum I would still be thrilled for you to be out and I think you will find the vast, vast majority of gay people would hold the same opinion. We have all been in the closet at one point and we all know the pain and difficulty involved in breaking out of it. I think we all appreciate, also, that it varies from person to person. I would never hesitate to be your friend etc just because you came out at 27 and I would never consider being friends with someone who had a problem with you for that reason.

As for your friends. It is possible that your friends will grow when they learn you are gay an in fact it is probably most likely that they will. BUT. Growing up I had two cousins of the same age with whom I was as close as any brothers could be. As we aged they became virulently homophobic and out of my friendship with them and my love for them I put up with that and hid that part of my personality for far too long and frankly it damaged me in ways I am only beginning to understand. Yes they are your friends and yes you are right to be loyal and yes its right to try and bring them along with you as you open up your full and true self but at some point you must prioritize yourself and realise that friends or no, these lads attitudes and utterances may be costing you too much. Don't let your life pass you by pretending to be something so that certain individuals will still like you when being your full self (Oprah moment) will without doubt bring you greater happiness and friends who like you for exactly who you are, no more or less.

Best, best of luck OP.

Mr.Frame

marklynch065 wrote: »

Hi guys,

I'm just looking for some advice. I'm a 27 year old guy (almost 28) and I am still in the closet. However I feel I owe it to myself at this stage to just come out. All my life I have hidden being gay from family/friends, but for very valid reasons. My family wouldn't be overly homophobic but some of my friends are. Infact my two best friends made it perfectly clear that they were voting no in the referendum and its attitudes like this that have caused me to put my love life on hold. I know some people will say these guys arn't your friends if they can't accept you, but I've known them all my life and they are like my brothers.

My biggest fear right now is that when I do decide to come out other gay guys will think I'm odd for my lack of relationships. I feel I have alot to offer: great job, friendly, in shape and without sounding bigheaded I've been described as goodlooking. I would have came out years ago if things were different, I'm only getting the courage now. Would me coming out so late be a turn off amongst other gay guys? I have no gay friends so I have no one else to ask.
Thanks so much for any advice.
Mark

First off,well done on accepting yourself.
I wouldn't worry too much about your age,gay people come out at different times of their lives ,so there isn't a "certain age" one must come out at
I came out far later than 27 .

Your "fear" about other gay guys thinking you may be odd because of your lack of relationships, is with the greatest of respect all in your head.

Before we come out most of us have fears and worries about our "new" life ahead and whilst they may be huge worries to us ,in reality theyre not.

Don't be worrying about what other guys may think, to be honest most wouldn't given it a second thought or care less ( and I don't mean that to sound offensive) It just wont be an issue .

With regards to your friends ,they may be the most supportive of friends when you tell them who you "really" are.
So what if they voted NO ,perhaps they don't know or met a "real gay guy".

Like yourself when I came out (late) I had no gay friends at all , However, I did check out Outhouse and they ran various courses which I attended.

I did a PDC course (personal development course) and it was simply great.

It was relaxed, fun and informative, but not only that I met other gay guys who I now socialise with.

So I would advise you to check out Outhouse and see what appeals to you . If they still do the PDC course I would wholeheartedly recommend that you do it .
It will be the makings of you.
I wish you well on your new journey and adventure and if you want to PM please do.

floggg

marklynch065 wrote: »

Hi guys,

I'm just looking for some advice. I'm a 27 year old guy (almost 28) and I am still in the closet. However I feel I owe it to myself at this stage to just come out. All my life I have hidden being gay from family/friends, but for very valid reasons. My family wouldn't be overly homophobic but some of my friends are. Infact my two best friends made it perfectly clear that they were voting no in the referendum and its attitudes like this that have caused me to put my love life on hold. I know some people will say these guys arn't your friends if they can't accept you, but I've known them all my life and they are like my brothers.

My biggest fear right now is that when I do decide to come out other gay guys will think I'm odd for my lack of relationships. I feel I have alot to offer: great job, friendly, in shape and without sounding bigheaded I've been described as goodlooking. I would have came out years ago if things were different, I'm only getting the courage now. Would me coming out so late be a turn off amongst other gay guys? I have no gay friends so I have no one else to ask.
Thanks so much for any advice.
Mark

No, not at all. I only came out at about 26 myself, and it's never been an issue at all.

As for your friends, it may well be they hold certain views without ever really thinking about it or confronting their own prejudices. If you were to come out to them, they may well do that and reconsider their stance.

Homophobia is one thing when gay people seem like an abstract and unknown concept, but once people realise somebody they know and love is gay, most of them quickly realise how absurd their prejudice was.

I would say however that if they couldn't let go of the prejudice once you did come out, then they really aren't friends. A true friend has your back no matter what. If their friendship is conditional on your sexuality, then they clearly don't value it as much as you do.

floggg

marklynch065 wrote: »

Guys thank you both for your replies! I really appreciate you taking the time getting back to me because I honestly wasn't expecting any feedback. I will definitely take what you both said on board. It is just so frustrating. I've spent all this time in the closet essentially protecting myself only to discover I have a whole new set of challenges to face upon coming out.

I would love to have started dating/meeting guys a lot sooner but to be honest this was just not possible. I had/still have too many social pressures on me that drive me into the closet. I do intend on coming out tho and I guess I'm just working up the confidence to do so. Some of the things my friends have said about gay people have been very harsh and it hurts to hear this from those you love the most.

I know at 27/28 I'm still young but I've read that in gay culture you are over the hill by 30! I mean come on is this for real? It's as if I have to face a whole new set of ****ty challenges upon coming out too e.g. giving guys reasons as to my lack of experience, agism...

Anyhow I know I'm ranting now and I'm definitely overthinking the whole situation. I guess talking about it is the first step.

Once again thank you for listening to me!
Mark

Yea, that gay death at 30 thing is bull****. It might be true for some 20 year olds twinks, but that's only because their metabolism slows down as they age and its hard to get into the extra small tshirt at 30.

I mean, seriously, do you know how many gay men are into daddies, bears etc?

feardeas

27 is young. Jasus I wish I was 27 when I did it all. I was over the 30 milestone when I finally did it although I had dated lads on and off for a few years before that.

One thing I found is that gay and lesbian people have a store of empathy for people in the situation as most have been through it themselves. I understand the reluctance about your friends. I spent a long time wondering about their reaction and all that. Luckily it was grand with them. Now granted this was prior the referendum and I know for a fact that if I was in your situation I too would be worried. In all sincerity though many of those who voted yes would not have done so if they hadn't known people who were gay. You know your friends best Don't be afraid to be fully honest about how much their friendship means to you and the turmoil accepting yourself has been for you. It may take them a little time but I'd be more than surprised if they didn't stand squarely with you in the end of it all. One thing that really stuck with me is when a lad I'm friendly with said that we have to give people time because in many of our cases it took us a long while to get used to it.

My oh often remarks that we both had so much to give and that we are lucky to have found each other to do that. We were both in our 30s when we met. You rightly say you have lots to give, there are plenty out there who are in the same situation.

Good luck on the journey, it will start with a few faltering words and bile in the stomach but it will be woderful when it all comes together.

Beir bua

marklynch065

Guys thank you so much for all the replies! It's interesting hearing all your different stories. I was driving myself bananas with worry these last few weeks so your words mean a lot. It's the whole lack of experience/dating that was my ultimate concern. I've read other discussion boards where guys were very critical of guys coming out later saying they wouldn't look at a guy without experience. Needless to say this caused me a lot of worry. Now that I'm approaching 28 I'm hoping this will be the year I can address this issue. A few years ago the very notion of coming out was a no go area for me and I just put it all to the back of my mind. I've definately accepted myself I just hope others will too. Oh ya and I agree that whole old at 30 thing is rubbish. Who the hell makes these rules anyhow? Nobody stays 20 forever like!
Mark

jobbridge4life

marklynch065 wrote: »

Oh ya and I agree that whole old at 30 thing is rubbish. Who the hell makes these rules anyhow? Nobody stays 20 forever like!
Mark

Speak for yourself!!! I intend staying 27 forever (and ever forever young).

marklynch065

Haha nothing wrong with that! Thanks for your advice man. Would it be ok to message u guys again if I ever need advice? Cheers
Mark

Mr.Frame

marklynch065 wrote: »

Haha nothing wrong with that! Thanks for your advice man. Would it be ok to message u guys again if I ever need advice? Cheers
Mark

Of course it would Let us know how you are getting on.

Banbha32

Hey Mark. So much of your post resonates with my own experience and im wondering how you got on i literally just came out this weekend at the age of 28! So no it is not too late. I turned 28 the week after the referendum and was so anxious to come out at 27 or even 26 thinking time was ticking but you have to be in the right frame of mind. I have also never had a relationship with anyone ever so i know exactly what you are feeling so you are not alone! (And im also scared / excited / unsure of what happens next!)

I moved to London last year and that helped a lot to clear my head and let me think in a new place but flew home to Cork for the weekend to come out as I wanted to do it face to face with the people i care most about. The marriage referendum is what finally gave me the push to just do it. It went really well with almost everyone. My mother, grandmother and all my female cousins and friends were full of support so if you are still holding it in maybe you could say it to someone like that before your two male best friends? If you have already come out in the meantime even better. My dad and brothers took a bit more coming around but theyre fine too, it is what it is and to be honest my whole overthinking of the whole thing for years was a lot worse and damaging than how people reacted. I had a friend who I knew was homophobic and she text me today to congratulate me and was very happy and maybe even felt guilty so dont worry they wont shun you nobody does its all in our heads as you seem to have a great bond with them

marklynch065

Hey Banbha32!
My apologies for my late reply I havn't been on boards in awhile. Thanks so much for getting in touch. Your story is so encouraging for me and I'm delighted everything went so well for you.

You are so correct when you say you need to be in the correct frame of mind. I guess I'm still working on that. I got a new job here in my hometown so I will be staying put here for the foreseeable future so I have decided that by the new year I will be coming out whether I like it or not.

I have been testing the waters with my mates and surprisingly one of my staunchly homophobic friends has actually softened his stance on gay people a bit and seems to have come to his senses. Like yourself, the referendum was a turning point for me.

I know we are still young and we have plenty of time to catch up on the years we spent closeted and I aim to make my 30's the best decade of my life. I have been hitting the gym hard again and just want to take control of my life again because being closeted has robbed me of my confidence for too long.

A major fear of mine was how would other guys react when I inform them of my inexperience? but ya know what I'm done with worrying about that too. There was alot of barriers in my life that prevented me from expressing myself up until now and I refuse to let others make me feel bad about this. Plus if a guy genuinely likes you inexperience shouldn't be an issue.

Once again thanks so much for getting in touch with me. I'm just building up that courage at the minute and stories like yours are a big help. Please let me know how you are getting on yourself! I'm in the process of reinventing myself like you have done and just hope it all goes according to plan!

All the best!

matthew86

Dude not sure I'm the best for giving advise, but whether you're gay/straight/bi etc a lot of people would actually find lack of experience a good thing!!!

marklynch065

Hey guys!!! Its been awhile since I posted!! Just a quick update I came out to my mother in the last couple of hours!!! I don't know where the courage came from but there ya go! I can no longer say I'm in the closet it feels so weird!!!

My mother was sooooo cool about it my goodness she is amazing. She happens to know quite a few gay people and surprisingly knew quite a bit about gay culture go figure!

Anyhow I intend on telling my sisters later this week possibly via text but I'll see. Once my family know I may tell some friends but I'll cross that bridge when I come to it.

Guys thank you so much for your support and replies I've read them all! I'm on cloud nine right now but still feel a bit strange....is it normal to feel like this directly after coming out? I think I'm still processing the fact that my secret is out!

All the best

Mr.Frame

marklynch065 wrote: »

Hey guys!!! Its been awhile since I posted!! Just a quick update I came out to my mother in the last couple of hours!!! I don't know where the courage came from but there ya go! I can no longer say I'm in the closet it feels so weird!!!

My mother was sooooo cool about it my goodness she is amazing. She happens to know quite a few gay people and surprisingly knew quite a bit about gay culture go figure!

Anyhow I intend on telling my sisters later this week possibly via text but I'll see. Once my family know I may tell some friends but I'll cross that bridge when I come to it.

Guys thank you so much for your support and replies I've read them all! I'm on cloud nine right now but still feel a bit strange....is it normal to feel like this directly after coming out? I think I'm still processing the fact that my secret is out!

All the best

Congrats to you ,well done.
Yes it can have a cloud nine feeling after coming out. Remember you are telling people who you REALLY are.
Now it's time for you to live your life,be happy have fun, f**k the nay sayers ,it's YOUR life.

marklynch065

Thank you guys! You are all wonderful people. I do feel a sense of relief. Just a quick question, it's more of curiosity really. Like a lot of Irish folk I was raised a catholic. I'm totally aware of the RC church current stance on LGBT issues. I can't lie when I say it hurts me I still have a certain faith. I'm not a regular mass goer but I do pray occasionaly. I know the two things are sorta at odds with one another. Has anyone else ever been in this situation?

Ten of Swords

There is no need to compromise your values or religious beliefs so please don't worry about, there are plenty of gay catholics in Ireland and they manage to strike a balance between the church's ethos and their own lifestyle and wellbeing.

Gay Catholic Voice Ireland might be a good resource for you to have a look at

www.gcvi.ie

c montgomery

I would like to mention that voting no in the referendum does not necessarily mean someone is homophobic.

Maybe your friends opinions on gay people would change when they find out a lifelong friend is gay.

JupiterKid

OP - well done on coming out! You can now be true to yourself and others. You've taken a huge step in the right direction.

You can also reconcile your sexuality with your faith as well. The two don't have to be at odds with each other.

Well done!

c montgomery

Well done, life will be much simpler and happier for you now without doubt.

mattP

marklynch065 wrote:

Thank you guys! You are all wonderful people. I do feel a sense of relief. Just a quick question, it's more of curiosity really. Like a lot of Irish folk I was raised a catholic. I'm totally aware of the RC church current stance on LGBT issues. I can't lie when I say it hurts me I still have a certain faith. I'm not a regular mass goer but I do pray occasionaly. I know the two things are sorta at odds with one another. Has anyone else ever been in this situation?

Im a Catholic too (and gay) and I don't really like going to mass. I believe in the main ideas in the Bible but to me a priest is just a man, so is the Pope. Any atheist could go off and become a priest, or any person with major vices (I wont go there) - so I dont think there is anything real divine about them. As long as youre happy with how your faith and sexuality interact is what matters

jobbridge4life

marklynch065 wrote: »

Thank you guys! You are all wonderful people. I do feel a sense of relief. Just a quick question, it's more of curiosity really. Like a lot of Irish folk I was raised a catholic. I'm totally aware of the RC church current stance on LGBT issues. I can't lie when I say it hurts me I still have a certain faith. I'm not a regular mass goer but I do pray occasionaly. I know the two things are sorta at odds with one another. Has anyone else ever been in this situation?

I go to mass nearly every week. I sing in my choir at home. I read at mass for years. Yes there is a conflict between how I live my life and the stated position of the Church on sexuality... but the same can be said for the overwhelming majority of Irish Catholics and if you want to be pedantic about it homosexuality is no greater a sin than fornication according to the Bible and the latter certainly occupied more of Jesus's time teaching than the former.

Honestly though the focus of my faith is not those rules but on cultivating a thoughtful considerate life that is open to the experiences of others and lived by the values important to me.

Faith can be a great boon to you in life so don't let other people's intolerance rob you of it.

Also congrats on how much progress you've made man. Its inspiring.

Mr.Frame

marklynch065 wrote: »

Thank you guys! You are all wonderful people. I do feel a sense of relief. Just a quick question, it's more of curiosity really. Like a lot of Irish folk I was raised a catholic. I'm totally aware of the RC church current stance on LGBT issues. I can't lie when I say it hurts me I still have a certain faith. I'm not a regular mass goer but I do pray occasionaly. I know the two things are sorta at odds with one another. Has anyone else ever been in this situation?

Nothing wrong with having a faith or indeed praying. I believe in God and I pray daily, I'm gay and GOD made me who I am.
Am I a Catholic ? I have huge issues with the CC since the child abuse scandals, they have done nothing about it and this Pope for all his likeability and good PR has yet to admit that the CC knew about priests who abused and knowingly moved them from parish to parish, they have yet to admit their failings in this.
That to me was and is a huge issue and because of that they have NO moral standing on any issue as far as I am concerned.
I also was offended by comments made by bishops during the marref campaign and also afterwards by an Italian bishop.
Since then my beliefs are personal and no CC is going to tell me how I live my life or say I am disordered.

feardeas

Anyone that is gay and catholic has the same issue. For some it means they need to leave the church so to speak. I personally still go to mass on a regular enough basis. Couldn't be pinned down as to why. I find a solace in it all, always have. I also took great comfort in the fact that people like Sister Stan and Fr Peter McVery openly called for a yes vote last May. There were many more. I was in touch with one priest on and off over the campaign. His last email to me was a few days before the referendum and the language was so decent as to be a hundred miles removed from some of the guff that can come out. Like all institutions there are many voices.

As for the harshness that is there, it has always been and on lots of issues. The reality is that anyone that ever used a condom or any other contraceptive has been committing a sin as far as church teaching is concerned. For me as a non theologian and an ordinary person the key message from Jesus was love. Pure and simple.

As an aside I'm often intrigued about Gay Byrne's final question on the meaning of life. What id it is all true and we do meet God after we die. What do we say,what does he say? Indeed what if none of it were true. Though then mind you i often shake myself and get on with my day as i am going to now.

marklynch065

Guys apologies late reply. I havn't been on this much lately. Ye are all huge support to me and it's great to get things off my chest. I plan on talking to my sisters maybe this week as I just started new job and didn't need the added stress of coming out to them during this.

I guess my biggest fear now is meeting new people with zero dating experience. I know its prob all in my head but do u think most folk wouldn't care about my coming out at 28? I feel like a late bloomer in this respect but there was genuinely no way I could even contimplate a gay relationship until lately. I would hate for for my lack of experience to be a deal breaker should I meet someone I like....I really think I've alot to offer but this issue does frighten me and I don't know where to begin

lyinghere

marklynch065 wrote: »

Guys apologies late reply. I havn't been on this much lately. Ye are all huge support to me and it's great to get things off my chest. I plan on talking to my sisters maybe this week as I just started new job and didn't need the added stress of coming out to them during this.

I guess my biggest fear now is meeting new people with zero dating experience. I know its prob all in my head but do u think most folk wouldn't care about my coming out at 28? I feel like a late bloomer in this respect but there was genuinely no way I could even contimplate a gay relationship until lately. I would hate for for my lack of experience to be a deal breaker should I meet someone I like....I really think I've alot to offer but this issue does frighten me and I don't know where to begin

I don't think most would care.

If you kept going on about it it would maybe get tiresome I guess.

Try Tinder or something. If you get chatting with someone you like see how it goes. Meet for a drink or coffee if you wants. It's nerve wracking but do you want to be back on here with same question in 6 months time. Go for it.

marklynch065

Cheers for your reply man! Its defo something that I wouldn't make an issue of just interested in yer thoughts. I guess I've been living in a bit of a bubble until now and got no gay pals in real life to talk to. I'm delighted my mother knows now it's really helped to tell her. Is Tindr not more of a n app for straight hookups?

Ten of Swords

marklynch065 wrote: »

I guess my biggest fear now is meeting new people with zero dating experience. I know its prob all in my head but do u think most folk wouldn't care about my coming out at 28? I feel like a late bloomer in this respect but there was genuinely no way I could even contimplate a gay relationship until lately.

You should not worry about this, there will be plenty of guys in the same place. Coming out in mid to late twenties is not uncommon so you will find people in a similar situation.

There is no set timetable for anyone to come out, some people do it when they're younger, some older and some not at all. If you feel ready now that's fine. Besides, even if you do find someone who came out at a younger age and has more experience than you, that won't necessarily be a dealbreaker for them and if it is then just move on, no need to get upset or lose hope.

lyinghere

marklynch065 wrote: »

Cheers for your reply man! Its defo something that I wouldn't make an issue of just interested in yer thoughts. I guess I've been living in a bit of a bubble until now and got no gay pals in real life to talk to. I'm delighted my mother knows now it's really helped to tell her. Is Tindr not more of a n app for straight hookups?

Sounds like you would like to make a feow gay friends. I'd suggest googling 'Meetup Wet and Wild', it sounds dodgy maybe but it's not.They organise outdoor events and fairly regularly. I've never got around to going but they do look good!

Plenty of gays on Tinder !