Neighbours fighting viciously, constantly. Worried for their safety and kids. - Mod#1

Chemical Byrne

[Mod Note:] - post 31
OK less of the nit picking please.
The OP is here to look for advice, not for judgements on not acting sooner or anything else.

Considering the number of posts we've had to remove please consider this a final warning before cards start being issued for off topic or unhelpful posts.

I'm not too sure whether this belongs in PI or A&P. Relocate if needs be.

But anyway, I live in a houseshare in <snip> what would generally be considered a good area. We, well I in particular, have a major worry about the neighbours. They are a professional couple with good jobs I assume and in their late forties with teenage kids.

The problem is they fight literally every day it seems. Night, noon and morning. I'm living there only 3 months and find it very distressing to listen to. The other girls in the house say it's been going on for as long as they've been there and they've basically gotten used to it and it don't really bother them any more - a bit like the way people living on a flight path stop consciously hearing planes I'd imagine.

The fights seem verbal in nature but sometimes the fierce intensity and level of vitriol would suggest they might get physically violent too. These frighteningly furious quarrels can kick off at any time of the day. Its made worse because the bedrooms of both houses back onto the party wall. Hard to tell what the fights are over but the shouting a roaring is distressing for me, I can't imagine how the kids are feeling. I feel sorry for the poor feckers.:( . There's usually him and her roaring the most hurtful types of abuse at the top of their lungs, door slamming, things being thrown about, bawling crying and sometimes it spills out into the back garden and I'm sure half of <snip> can hear them. It happens on some level nearly every day.

My gf was over on Friday night and they kicked off again. This time it was by far the worst I've ever witnessed. Basically were were woken up at like, 3AM to them tearing into each other. This time it was topped off with him repeatedly roaring FÚCK YOU, FÚCK YOU, FÚCK YOU! at the her at full volume accompanied by what sounded like him trying to beat down a door or something for what seemed like 15 minutes. My girlfriend became a bit upset by the whole ordeal and couldn't go back to sleep and it really put my stress level up too.

Anyway fast forward to Saturday morning and it was round 2. Highlight was her roaring at him to get our of her house and that she wanted him gone. When we left to go into town this was still going on.

These are both professional people with what I would imagine are very good jobs.

When I got back home yesterday both cars were still there. I think this has reached a whole new level. At the end of the day this is antisocial behaviour as it is affecting their neighbours. How can anyone live like this? The level of tension and stress in that household would be enough to age a person 20 years!

We were joking after that we should drop a leaflet for ACCORD in their letterbox but obviously we cant do that!

I'm wondering what I should do or how to deal with this. Should I complain to them about the noise? Or should I phone the Guards and tell them? Tbh, it has reached the level where I'm actually worried someone will be murdered. It is not a good environment for the kids to be in, something needs to happen here, like should I tell social services to visit them? I don't want to be sticking my oar in at all but I just find it so stressful and upsetting to have to live beside.
It's also very embarrassing to have my gf over and have to explain to her that this is just normal around here. It's like living in an episode of Eastenders.

mocha please!

Probably best thing to do is to send an e-mail to your local social services office.

Also copy in the teenager(s) secondary schools (you should be able to figure this out by their uniforms, with a little detective work!) and also copy in a local counsillor or two.

Do it anonymously if you prefer - I know I would - it takes two minutes or less to set up a false e-mail address.

b_mac2

I'd keep well out of it OP, you have no business whatsoever in getting involved, unless you actually see someone being assaulted.

b_mac2

mocha please! wrote: »

Probably best thing to do is to send an e-mail to your local social services office.

Also copy in the teenager(s) secondary schools (you should be able to figure this out by their uniforms, with a little detective work!) and also copy in a local counsillor or two.

Do it anonymously if you prefer - I know I would - it takes two minutes or less to set up a false e-mail address.

Jesus Christ. Do not do this.

mocha please!

b_mac2 wrote: »

Jesus Christ. Do not do this.

Why not?

There are teenagers involved. Someone needs to stand up for them.

I couldn't live next door to a household like that with a clear conscience, I'd have to let someone know. He is "actually worried someone will be murdered". He has to do something about it.

SpaceTime

Best bet is to call the Gardai.

They should be your first port of call on this. Just ring Douglas Garda station and explain what's going on.

021 485-7670

Flippyfloppy

b_mac2 wrote: »

Jesus Christ. Do not do this.

Why? That's what social services are there for. Maybe the secondary school thing is unnecessary but if there are kids involved and OP is one of the only people aware of the behaviour in the house why should he turn a blind eye?

kylith

When they start roaring and screaming in the middle of the night call the gardai and tell them there's a domestic disturbance going on.

Chemical Byrne

Chemical Byrne wrote: »

Tbh, it has reached the level where I'm actually worried someone will be murdered. It is not a good environment for the kids to be in, something needs to happen here,

And sure as long as everyone 'minds their own business' nothing ever will.
If you thought someone could be injured or killed what do you think is the correct course of action?

If I was woken up with the neighbours screaming at 3am, the first thing I'd be doing is ringing the guards.

Maybe no one has ever said anything to them? Maybe gardai calling to the door might be embarrassing enough for them to do something about their behaviour.

SpaceTime

kylith wrote: »

When they start roaring and screaming in the middle of the night call the gardai and tell them there's a domestic disturbance going on.

That's definitely the best way.

Also keep reporting it, every time it happens.

You're also entitled to expect to be able to peacefully enjoy your home too, apart from the risk to the kids and the adults next door.

Chemical Byrne

mocha please! wrote: »

Also copy in the teenager(s) secondary schools (you should be able to figure this out by their uniforms, with a little detective work!)

Sure it's the summer holidays now so that's not an option anymore for the next 3 months.

Anyway, no way am I going spying on underage teens to find out where they go to school. There could be allegations of impropriety and I'm not risking that.

I might email social services though. Or perhaps request the Gardai to come up next time there is a blazing melee in full swing. The Garda station in Douglas is only 2 minutes down the road.

But I worry that no matter what I do, they will obviously know it was more than likely someone in my house put in the call. I'd be worried what might happen if they take some vendetta against us.

Chemical Byrne

<Mod Note: Sorry OP - I snipped their off topic post so please don't respond to it>

But yeah, I think I might just discuss it with the guards today. If I state that I have a concern for the childrens safety, would they be obliged to do something?

I was half thinking of having a quiet word with some one of them about the noise aspect next time I meet one of them out front thinking it might embarrass them to tone things down if they knew the whole street was privvy to their tumultuous home life. But i think there needs to be some treatment or counselling here, there is much more going on than noise issues.

kylith

Chemical Byrne wrote: »

Sure it's the summer holidays now so that's not an option anymore for the next 3 months.

Anyway, no way am I going spying on underage teens to find out where they go to school. There could be allegations of impropriety and I'm not risking that.

I might email social services though. Or perhaps request the Gardai to come up next time there is a blazing melee in full swing. The Garda station in Douglas is only 2 minutes down the road.

But I worry that no matter what I do, they will obviously know it was more than likely someone in my house put in the call. I'd be worried what might happen if they take some vendetta against us.

I understand your concerns. If they confront you you can do nothing but say that 1) you were concerned for their and their children's welfare and 2) you were fed up to the back teeth of being woken up in the middle of the night by them. If they threaten you make a note of it and report it to the Gardaí. But if they're not knocking lumps out of each other I wouldn't be too concerned about them knocking lumps out of you.

Flippyfloppy

kylith wrote: »

When they start roaring and screaming in the middle of the night call the gardai and tell them there's a domestic disturbance going on.

You can't be sure that the guards will link up to social services though so it would be better to do both.

kylith

Flippyfloppy wrote: »

You can't be sure that the guards will link up to social services though so it would be better to do both.

Perhaps, but at least having the cops turn up at the door should, hopefully, keep them quiet for the rest of the night. And might even inspire them to be a bit quieter in future.

SpaceTime

If it's very bad or you think there's a risk of injury don't hesitate to ring 112 / 999 too.

You don't want someone badly injured or killed.

These situation can spiral out of hand very quickly.

Flippyfloppy

kylith wrote: »

Perhaps, but at least having the cops turn up at the door should, hopefully, keep them quiet for the rest of the night. And might even inspire them to be a bit quieter in future.

Absolutely , however social services could provide them with help in whatever problems they're having, if needed, as well as having the guards show up.

retro:electro

If they are anything like how you've described I highly doubt they will be embarrassed. The guards may get social services involved but again nothing may come of that as long as the children are regularly attending school etc. Sounds like they are just the sort of couple who love the drama and feed off it. As sad and all as it is I don't think a visit from the guards will do a whole lot. I would definitely report it though any time you hear them just so the guards have a record of it.

my friend

<Mod Note: Post like this again in this forum and you'll force the mods to card you my friend>

Chemical Byrne

I just don't know how they can live like that knowing that every day is going to be like going into battle.

Personally, I just couldn't live in such a set up.

It's very sad really. Life must be a misery of stress for them. That is not healthy on any level, mentally or physically.

daisybelle2008

Chemical Byrne wrote: »

I just don't know how they can live like that knowing that every day is going to be like going into battle.

Personally, I just couldn't live in such a set up.

It's very sad really. Life must be a misery of stress for them. That is not healthy on any level, mentally or physically.

OP call the guards when the noise level is disturbing.... As others said some family's thrive on that drama and don't even notice how fecked up it is. doesn't mean you have to put up with it, might or might not give them a wake up call, at the very least they'll have to tone it down for the neighbours.

Rubberchikken

contact the gardai. even if this doesn't end in something serious, behaving like that in the middle of the night in a residential area is not on.
maybe a garda at the door might instill some sense in both of them.
ignoring it isn't the answer. people ignoring episodes like this are what contributes to the incidents of serious injury/death in domestic violence episodes in this country.

frostyjacks

Gardai are the best option here. It'll mean there's a record of it if it ever escalates. Plus it'll show this couple that their hooligan behaviour is simply unacceptable.

I can't understand your housemates just carrying in like it's no big deal. They're shirking their civic duty if I'm being honest, allowing this sort of loutish behaviour to go unchecked and leaving it for someone else to deal with.

Chemical Byrne

I think i'll definitely call the Guards next time there's a conflagration.

I don't think it should be ignored. I think the attitude to ignore it and look the other way is so typically Irish and similar sticking of heads in the sand thinking is what allowed abuse to run rampant in institutions. Everybody knew, but nobody acknowledged it or dared to ask questions because it was none of their business.

I think the girls in the house are just used to it at this point.

This couple would not appear to be typical hooligans though. On the outside everything looks the height of respectability - perfect house, luxury cars, big ticket jobs etc. They are all smiles whenever I see either of them outside but once the front door closes the gloves are off and it's hell for leather. They actually remind me of John & Mary in Fr Ted. Its this that makes me worried that social services or whoever won't take it seriously, they'll just see their perfect public facade. perhaps I should consider recording the next colossal bust up on my phone just in case?

I'd worry about reporting them though in case it resulted in trouble for us. I'd be concerned that my housemates would be pissed if they heard back that a complaint came from our house.

retro:electro

Chemical Byrne wrote: »

I think i'll definitely call the Guards next time there's a conflagration.

I don't think it should be ignored. I think the attitude to ignore it and look the other way is so typically Irish and similar sticking of heads in the sand thinking is what allowed abuse to run rampant in institutions. Everybody knew, but nobody acknowledged it or dared to ask questions because it was none of their business.

I think the girls in the house are just used to it at this point.

This couple would not appear to be typical hooligans though. On the outside everything looks the height of respectability - perfect house, luxury cars, big ticket jobs etc. They are all smiles whenever I see either of them outside but once the front door closes the gloves are off and it's hell for leather. They actually remind me of John & Mary in Fr Ted. Its this that makes me worried that social services or whoever won't take it seriously, they'll just see their perfect public facade. perhaps I should consider recording the next colossal bust up on my phone just in case?

I'd worry about reporting them though in case it resulted in trouble for us. I'd be concerned that my housemates would be pissed if they heard back that a complaint came from our house.

I wouldn't give a crap what my housemates thought tbh. I'd sleep much better at night knowing I didn't stick my head in the sand like they have for all this time

Chemical Byrne

b_mac2 wrote: »

I'd keep well out of it OP, you have no business whatsoever in getting involved, unless you actually see someone being assaulted.

I think I can hear it. Things being thrown around etc, banging on doors etc. Pretty close to it in any case.

MrWalsh

Im a bit bemused as to why your housemates or you have not called the Guards already?

If I am woken from my sleep by a furious row going on next door, I am on the phone to the Guards immediately. Sure for all I know there is an intruder in there and people are being murdered!

CaraMay

Well you've looked away for over 3 months op so don't point your finger at others. Definitely call the guards and social services

Chemical Byrne

I haven't looked away. It's just Friday night/Satruday morning was particularly ferocious and we were both a bit shaken as to how a massive fight like that could break out randomly at 3AM.

CaraMay

You said it's been going on since you moved in. They are clearly drinking at home then fighting.

Taltos

[Mod Note:]
OK less of the nit picking please.
The OP is here to look for advice, not for judgements on not acting sooner or anything else.

Considering the number of posts we've had to remove please consider this a final warning before cards start being issued for off topic or unhelpful posts.

Flippyfloppy

Flippyfloppy wrote: »

You can't be sure that the guards will link up to social services though so it would be better to do both.

If Any domestic incident that gardai attend has children present then gardai automatically fill out a form that notifies social services.
It's all policy now.

Chemical Byrne

All quiet tonight. Im not sure if himself is there or not. I saw herself earlier. She looked stressed.

Gregor Samsa

Don't worry about how respectable or what good jobs or cars they have, the authorities will have seen people from all walks of life involved in all kinds of things.

Just call the Guards next time you hear it flaring up. You'd have a right to do this if it was loud music or TV disturbing you, you definitely have a right if it was an out of control domestic row. If the neighbours ever confront you, don't engage with them and just get on with your business. But they probably won't, since they'll know that you'd have no hesitation to get the Guards involved again. Don't worry about what your housemates think, you know yourself you're doing the right thing. The neighbours' actions are intruding into your life, and you have every right to do something about it.

A visit from the Guards won't necessarily stop this from happening (unless one of them makes a complaint about assault or harassment or some other crime), but they're the first step to getting other authorities involved, especially when there's kids in the mix.

Flippyfloppy

bubblypop wrote: »

If Any domestic incident that gardai attend has children present then gardai automatically fill out a form that notifies social services.
It's all policy now.

I'd still follow up with social services myself. Cos once you report it to the guards they ain't gonna be coming back giving you feedback so you won't know if they have reported it. The parents could act all innocent as soon as the Garda arrive you never know.

tinkerbell

I'd call the gardai next time it happens. Record it on your phone if needs be. What baffles me is now they think nobody can hear them if they live in a house that is attached to your house. And each time it happens call the gardai. Are you in a neighbourhood watch area by any chance? If so, there's usually a Garda assigned to a particular estate - you could report it to them each time it happens.

Taltos

Mod Note:
frostyjacks - your post was removed as it was in breach of our charter. Before posting again please take five minutes to read the rules on this forum as PI is strictly moderated any rule breach here can result in an immediate card or even a ban.

LegacyUser

OP if you suspect that a child or young person is suffering or at risk of emotional or physical abuse it is your responsibility to report it.

The welfare of those teenagers is paramount and takes precedence over the couple's right to privacy or your right to a good night's sleep.

Have a quick read of the 'Children First' document available from the Department of Children and Youth Affairs website.

A few key experts:

3.2.2 The HSE Children and Family Services should always be informed when a person has reasonable grounds for concern that a child may have been, is being or is at risk of being abused or neglected.

3.2.5 The guiding principles in regard to reporting child abuse or neglect may be summarised as follows:
(i) the safety and well-being of the child must take priority;
(ii) reports should be made without delay to the HSE Children and Family Services.

3.2.6 Any reasonable concern or suspicion of abuse or neglect must elicit a response. Ignoring the signals or failing to intervene may result in ongoing or further harm to the child.

Chemical Byrne

There was more shouting on Friday evening. I came back now last evening and I believe the latest is that one of the teenage children of this couple has run away. The mother was out front, a bit frazzled and talking to another teenage girl asking "are you sure he's not in your house".

Time to call the gardai I think, if they are not aware of the situation already.

njs030

Chemical Byrne wrote: »

There was more shouting on Friday evening. I came back now last evening and I believe the latest is that one of the teenage children of this couple has run away. The mother was out front, a bit frazzled and talking to another teenage girl asking "are you sure he's not in your house".

Time to call the gardai I think, if they are not aware of the situation already.

Call the gardai if there is an incident going on that you're aware of,don't call them because you overheard part of a conversation and decided their child has run away!! You haven't the faintest idea if that's a correct assumption or if the teenager had simply gone out and the battery on his phone had died leaving him uncontactable and the mother was over-reacting.

Seriously just focus on what is your business and stop making assumptions about other people.

frostyjacks

notjustsweet wrote: »

Seriously just focus on what is your business and stop making assumptions about other people.

Minding her own business is the reason the OP has asked for advice here. She has to live beside this carry on. There's only so long you can stick your head in the sand and pretend it's not your responsibility.

Chemical Byrne

frostyjacks wrote: »

Minding his her own business is the reason the OP has asked for advice here. He She has to live beside this carry on. There's only so long you can stick your head in the sand and pretend it's not your responsibility.

FYP

But yeah I get your drift. I don't want to be sticking my nose in other peoples business but given the extraordinary circumstances I feel obliged to do so, even for their own benefit. people should not have to live like that.

Meauldsegosha

Chemical Byrne wrote: »

FYP

But yeah I get your drift. I don't want to be sticking my nose in other peoples business but given the extraordinary circumstances I feel obliged to do so, even for their own benefit. people should not have to live like that.

What extraordinary circumstances? You overheard part of a conversation yesterday and made a huge assumption. If you heard them fighting on Friday you should have rang the Garda then. You are only ringing now to get involved in their business and ease your own conscience.

frostyjacks

Meauldsegosha wrote: »

What extraordinary circumstances? You overheard part of a conversation yesterday and made a huge assumption. If you heard them fighting on Friday you should have rang the Garda then. You are only ringing now to get involved in their business and ease your own conscience.

That's the kind of attitude that has allowed them to get away with their behaviour all this time. We shouldn't have to wait for someone to get hurt before we act.

Taboola

frostyjacks wrote: »

That's the kind of attitude that has allowed them to get away with their behaviour all this time. We shouldn't have to wait for someone to get hurt before we act.

Yes which is why the OP should have rang weeks ago but especially on Friday when people here have advised him to do so.

Meauldsegosha

frostyjacks wrote: »

That's the kind of attitude that has allowed them to get away with their behaviour all this time. We shouldn't have to wait for someone to get hurt before we act.

I think you need to read my post again. I said he should have rang on Friday and not wait until 3 days later. Why does he only thinking about ringing today when he has had pages of advice telling him to ring the authorities?

njs030

frostyjacks wrote: »

Minding her own business is the reason the OP has asked for advice here. She has to live beside this carry on. There's only so long you can stick your head in the sand and pretend it's not your responsibility.

You've misunderstood my post. The op should have rang the gardai when he was disturbed by an actual fight or disorder from next door.

Its not his business to call a Garda station to say that he overheard a line of a conversation and decided that meant a teenager has ran away.

I agree if he's concerned about fighting from next door he should call and report it, but I do wonder why he keeps coming back to the thread saying there was problems again and he hasn't done anything.

Chemical Byrne

I have called the Gaurds about it. They said that if it is as serious as I say it is they can have someone call by and see what the story is but stressed that unless there is any criminality related complaint or an obvious child welfare issue there isn't anything they can do. They say if it is the noise issue that bothers me that I am best to get on to the environment section in the council.

Rubberchikken

it good that you contacted the gardai.
maybe a visit from them will help these people to realise that the way they're behaving is not on.

part of me, though, doubts it will solve it. behaviour like you explain doesn't change overnight so see how things go.

it's good that you're not willing to ignore it. i think there's a big difference between doing something about a situation that maybe out of control and being a nosey neighbour and you did the right thing.

njs030

Apologies, I didn't realise that you had called.
Well at least you've tried and it's on record.