Why do Security Guards not detain people any more?

sdanseo

I've worked in retail for a number of years, and this is something I've seen over and over. Of course I've also seen situations where people have been detained. One shopping centre where I worked up to last year was particularly effective.

When people steal things, and where proof of this has been shown to security staff, I've had a few experiences where PSA licensed security staff are completely unwilling to detain or forcibly prevent someone reasonably suspected of theft from leaving a store or a shopping centre. They're "not allowed put [their] hands on them" apparently.

In fact, recently, they seem more willing to simply order them to leave.

While my understanding is that security staff have no entitlement to use force to make a trespasser leave, the law is completely on their side with regard to people suspected of theft, as it's an arrestable offence:

4.—(1) Subject to subsections (4) and (5), any person may arrest without warrant anyone who is or whom he or she, with reasonable cause, suspects to be in the act of committing an arrestable offence.

(2) Subject to subsections (4) and (5), where an arrestable offence has been committed, any person may arrest without warrant anyone who is or whom he or she, with reasonable cause, suspects to be guilty of the offence.

(3) Where a member of the Garda Síochána, with reasonable cause, suspects that an arrestable offence has been committed, he or she may arrest without warrant anyone whom the member, with reasonable cause, suspects to be guilty of the offence.

(4) An arrest other than by a member of the Garda Síochána may only be effected by a person under subsection (1) or (2) where he or she, with reasonable cause, suspects that the person to be arrested by him or her would otherwise attempt to avoid, or is avoiding, arrest by a member of the Garda Síochána.

(5) A person who is arrested pursuant to this section by a person other than a member of the Garda Síochána shall be transferred into the custody of the Garda Síochána as soon as practicable.

(6) This section shall not affect the operation of any enactment restricting the institution of proceedings for an offence or prejudice any power of arrest conferred by law apart from this section.

Is the PSA actively discouraging people from using the law to their advantage to keep them out of trouble from potential false imprisonment claims if they err in judgement?

hullaballoo

Traditionally, security staff here have been overzealous, which has led to the need to regulate them. Arising from the overzealousness of security staff, many retailers and licenced premises etc. have had to face excruciatingly expensive suits for the likes of assault and battery, false imprisonment and probably the most common in these situations, defamation.

I presume it's a combination of the required training and insurance reasons. Since they are now properly trained, they know the risks of being a have-a-go hero, or more commonly, beating someone senseless for no reason.

conorh91

sdanseo wrote: »

When people steal things, and where proof of this has been shown to security staff, I've had a few experiences where PSA licensed security staff are completely unwilling to detain or forcibly prevent someone reasonably suspected of theft from leaving a store or a shopping centre. They're "not allowed put [their] hands on them" apparently

Shown how? Say you approach a security guard with evidence that some yoof has stuffed a playstation into his rucksack, and the security guard forms the requisite suspicion, and detains the young lad in the back office.

If you are mistaken, then the suspected shoplifter has a cause of action against the store and the security guard for false imprisonment, battery, assault and perhaps even defamation for good measure. It doesn't matter if you and the security guard had reasonable grounds for believing a theft occurred. If it didn't happen, you have no defence.

Even if it transpired that the youth had in fact attempted to shoplift, what possible grounds would you have for forming a reasonable suspicion that he would "otherwise attempt to avoid arrest"? How can you reasonably form that belief simply by observing a thief, even if he walks out the door? You cannot know that he wouldn't stop if requested. After all, many of them take shoplifting in their stride, and see prosecution as one of the temporary pitfalls of their career.

Is the PSA actively discouraging people from using the law to their advantage to keep them out of trouble from potential false imprisonment claims if they err in judgement?

I don't know if they're actively encouraging them to do so, but I certainly hope they are advising all store detectives to be very wary about arresting anyone.

Would you risk it yourself? The security guard has no more immunity from liability than you or anyone else in the store.

Zambia

Maybe they just don't have the skill that security staff used to.

sdanseo

conorh91 wrote: »

Shown how? Say you approach a security guard with evidence that some yoof has stuffed a playstation into his rucksack, and the security guard forms the requisite suspicion, and detains the young lad in the back office.

Firstly, nowadays most instances of theft are caught on CCTV. If it wasn't it's your word against theirs, and you may as wall talk out of your arse unless multiple people saw it.

conorh91 wrote: »

Even if it transpired that the youth had in fact attempted to shoplift, what possible grounds would you have for forming a reasonable suspicion that he would "otherwise attempt to avoid arrest"? How can you reasonably form that belief simply by observing a thief, even if he walks out the door? You cannot know that he wouldn't stop if requested.

Surely if a security guard asks someone to wait for the Gardaí because they have reason to believe they committed theft, and that person refuses to wait, it is reasonable to assume they are avoiding arrest?

As to whether I'd have a go myself: most companies protect their staff by insisting that only security or the Gardaí attempt to detain anyone. If it was allowed, if I was certain beyond doubt, and if it was a fight I thought I could win if it came to it - then yes.

conorh91

sdanseo wrote: »

Firstly, nowadays most instances of theft are caught on CCTV.

Yes but you mentioned showing evidence of theft to the security guard, and I enquired about the nature of that evidence. It needs to be absolutely certain. Usually, CCTV would suffice, but a broken security tag and a dodgy-looking young lad with a guilty expression would not give the security guard the certainty he needs.

Surely if a security guard asks someone to wait for the Gardaí because they have reason to believe they committed theft, and that person refuses to wait, it is reasonable to assume they are avoiding arrest?

Yes. A security guard can wait until the suspect fails to pay for the item, then without detaining the suspect, ask him to wait for the Gardai. The shoplifter is going to run away, obviously. If the security guard can catch him, great, but you can see the sort of ridiculous situation the legislation has created. It gives shoplifters a valuable headstart.

As to whether I'd have a go myself: most companies protect their staff by insisting that only security or the Gardaí attempt to detain anyone. If it was allowed, if I was certain beyond doubt, and if it was a fight I thought I could win if it came to it - then yes.

There you go then, maybe you should get a PSA licence.

Brian Lighthouse

I used to do security.
I never detained anybody in the seven years I was doing it. I never called the guards. I was never seriously threatened and I never once ran after a person.
This was how I operated.
If I saw someone leave the premises without paying for an object/objects I would ask the person to give it back to me and never come in again. Ninety percent of the time people would hand it over and I'd bring the stuff back and tell the manager I recovered these items and they'd be happy. Generally after that the regular shoplifters would see me working, nod or wave and pass on to some other shop.
The other ten percent of the time people would run, or tell me to feck off or threaten me, but in nearly all those instances they were stoned or strung-out. I'd leave them off and not worry about it.
Eventually over time all I did was stand at the door, shop lifters would know me, I would know them and they wouldn't bother coming in for most of the time. Yes, apart from some individuals stealing an item here or there, shoplifters are professionals. They steal items from shops and that is their bread and butter. They don't want hassle from SC or Gardai as they carry out their business, they'll go where they can steal easily and where they are not known in a lot of instances.
Nowadays I've noticed that firms hire security companies and the security guard on the premises changes a lot which is a shoplifters dream. The security guard doesn't know them or how they operate and stuff flies out the door. By the time some regular staff member sees them leave it's too late.
I'll wager that the OP has seen this a lot in recent times.
Also for the OP, if a security guard does not see the person leave the store with items in their possession that have not been paid for the security guard should do absolutely nothing.
The SG should never approach someone unless they have seen it themselves, no matter how they saw it (CCTV or with their own eyes). Management/Staff should never ask the SG to stop someone based on the information they are giving to the SG. The going rate for a "falsie" was €15,000 when I was doing it. Probably about €20k now - I don't know.

For the OP, It's not the PSA that are discouraging people from using the law. In my opinion it's the retailers that are hiring the cheapest alternative that encourages shoplifting.
Imagine a person standing on a shop floor for eight hours on minimum wage - do they care what happens to that store when they'll be standing for eight hours on minimum wage in another store the next day?
Retailers should invest in their security and have a core staff who will know everybody over the course of a few months. That's how to avoid shrinkage in the retail industry.

I'd better stop here as I could go on about strategies that retailers should adopt, but it will make no difference because there is a good chance that there is a head office in another country that makes staffing decisions and has one theft insurance policy covering its 100 stores or whatever and they really don't care what happens as long as the shop window is displayed as dictated and the money is lodged at the end of the day.