Renting in Ireland - standards

Mint Aero

It's appalling. I'm looking around at the moment for house or apt share. I can't even find a single apt complex with private swimming pool or gym. The quality of what's available on the market is substandard and is top dollar of course :rolleyes:

Can anyone explain what's going on? Kitchens in any place are never properly fitted. There's always a lack of fridge freezer storage. There's never a half decent tv. Furniture is like something a landlord found in a skip. Other common sub standard stuff I notice are mouldy old carpets, lino crap, cheap mdf in bathrooms, plastic shower curtains, crap furniture.

That's just the components of the house. Never mind how sh*t the craftsmanship is, shoddy plasterwork, chipped plaster, unpainted dirty walls etc.

When one returns from living abroad one sees Ireland really has no standards for its rental market.

stevedublin

Mint Aero wrote: »

. I can't even find a single apt complex with private swimming pool or gym.

Unusual in Ireland, but common in southern half of US.
Too cold here for outdoor swimming pools even in summer, indoor ones are expensive to build and maintain, I'm fairly sure its the same in similar countries e.g. the UK

Mint Aero

stevedublin wrote: »

Unusual in Ireland, but common in southern half of US.
Too cold here for outdoor swimming pools even in summer, indoor ones are expensive to build and maintain, I'm fairly sure its the same in similar countries e.g. the UK

No the UK has an abundance of apts with swimming pools, private movie rooms, gyms, concierges etc.

davo10

Mint Aero wrote: »

No the UK has an abundance of apts with swimming pools, private movie rooms, gyms, concierges etc.

There was a beautiful apartment for rent in Dubln on the Sunday times last week, I think it has most of what you are looking for. It was only €5,500 per month, that's the one for you.

Gumbo

Gym.
Swimming pool.
Dollars.

All mentioned in the same post.
OP you are on an Irish forum. Think you need daft.USA

phantom_lord

stevedublin wrote: »

Unusual in Ireland, but common in southern half of US.
Too cold here for outdoor swimming pools even in summer, indoor ones are expensive to build and maintain, I'm fairly sure its the same in similar countries e.g. the UK

Yeah my friend rents a place here for ~$1500 a month.

SpaceTime

The British and Irish attitude to renting is pretty much based on the "it's only an auld flat", "they're only renting" and the "eww.. renters - there must be something wrong with them" philosophies.

The majority of rentals are from individuals and micro-developers who have small portfolios of properties or a single property that they have 'flipped'.

The whole thing is seen as a way of making a quick buck for a small-time speculator.

There are even entire programmes on BBC about how to 'flip' property and make it ready for the rental market.

In other markets you'd find larger developers and companies developing purpose-built apartment blocks and operating them with a long-term mentality. That's absolutely not the case here at all.

I'm in a position at the moment where it's looking unlikely that I'll be able to buy anyway, so I'm thinking of emigrating.

It's a ridiculous situation that you can't do a long term lease here, so I'm off to the continent.

The quality of life here on the rental market simply isn't attractive.

Saipanne

phantom_lord wrote: »

Yeah my friend rents a place here for ~$1500 a month.

That would probably cost around €50,000 per month here. And corners would still be cut.

phantom_lord

Yeah you don't see any high end places in Ireland at all, not even at the very top of the market.

Mint Aero

Typical self deprecating Irish :rolleyes: Yera begorrah you and your notions of a pool sure yera t'idnt there water in the bog till be good enough for ya.

Really people, I'm not asking for much. And no to the poster offering 5,500 a month, these places should be available for the 500 - 1k mark here. It's 2015 like.

SpaceTime

Mint Aero wrote: »

Typical self deprecating Irish :rolleyes: Yera begorrah you and your notions of a pool sure yera t'idnt there water in the bog till be good enough for ya.

Really people, I'm not asking for much. And no to the poster offering 5,500 a month, these places should be available for the 500 - 1k mark here. It's 2015 like.

Supply and demand.

Welcome to housing bubble 2.0 - There's no supply and it's being drip fed to ensure maximum returns.

You have to remember that housing here is primarily a speculative financial instrument, not infrastructure.

rubberdiddies

Mint Aero wrote: »

Typical self deprecating Irish :rolleyes: Yera begorrah you and your notions of a pool sure yera t'idnt there water in the bog till be good enough for ya.

Really people, I'm not asking for much. And no to the poster offering 5,500 a month, these places should be available for the 500 - 1k mark here. It's 2015 like.

500 to 1k for an apartment with a pool and a gym? Seriously? Do you know how much it costs to run a pool.....in any country?

It's all very well saying you'd love a pool. In an ideal world we would all have one but Ireland has never been a country of pools for obvious reasons.

Indoor pools just generally aren't built even in high spec housing.

Your complaint is falling on deaf ears because it would be private enterprise that would have to build something like that. We just don't have the culture for it.

It would be a big risk for someone to build such a block of apartments and hope people will pay 2 to 3k plus for the privilege.

People in that market generally buy their own house here in Ireland

fleet

rubberdiddies wrote: »

People in that market generally buy their own house here in Ireland

Nail, hammer, head.

Plus I've a better gym down the road with a 25m pool for under 500 a year.

SpaceTime

for €500 to €1000 for an apartment with a gym and a pool, you're obviously either living in a property that's making a loss or in a low wage, developing country economy. That couldn't be done here at all for that price.

You'd have to pay salaries for gym staff, maintenance people, life guards, insurance etc etc.

Are you sure you don't only get access to the pool / gym for another fee on top of the rent?

I know I rented in northern Spain for about €1000 a month and there was a pool and gym available but they were about €700 / year.

handlemaster

SpaceTime wrote: »

The British and Irish attitude to renting is pretty much based on the "it's only an auld flat", "they're only renting" and the "eww.. renters - there must be something wrong with them" philosophies.

The majority of rentals are from individuals and micro-developers who have small portfolios of properties or a single property that they have 'flipped'.

The whole thing is seen as a way of making a quick buck for a small-time speculator.

There are even entire programmes on BBC about how to 'flip' property and make it ready for the rental market.

In other markets you'd find larger developers and companies developing purpose-built apartment blocks and operating them with a long-term mentality. That's absolutely not the case here at all.

I'm in a position at the moment where it's looking unlikely that I'll be able to buy anyway, so I'm thinking of emigrating.

It's a ridiculous situation that you can't do a long term lease here, so I'm off to the continent.

The quality of life here on the rental market simply isn't attractive.

You cant buy so for that reason your thinking of emigrating !! You think you will snap up a property easier and cheaper else where ? Leasing on the "continent" you better go with your eyes open and a folder full of paperwork not like ireland at all.

Terrontress

handlemaster wrote: »

You cant buy so for that reason your thinking of emigrating !! You think you will snap up a property easier and cheaper else where ? Leasing on the "continent" you better go with your eyes open and a folder full of paperwork not like ireland at all.

Go to Berlin and he'll find an apartment at half the price of Dublin. He'll also have a lease which protects him more than his landlord and he'll have a long lease.

But he'll likely earn a lot less than in Dublin so there's a tradeoff there.

No one country has all the answers.

Ste.phen

SpaceTime wrote: »

for €500 to €1000 for an apartment with a gym and a pool, you're obviously either living in a property that's making a loss or in a low wage, developing country economy. That couldn't be done here at all for that price.

You'd have to pay salaries for gym staff, maintenance people, life guards, insurance etc etc.

Are you sure you don't only get access to the pool / gym for another fee on top of the rent?

I know I rented in northern Spain for about €1000 a month and there was a pool and gym available but they were about €700 / year.

TL;DR - some professionally run apartments in Ireland with maintained shared services would be lovely, thanks.

Nah, I live in the US and many many apartment complexes are run (as mentioned above) as a single entity by a single owner, with many shared services with the cost of those split between many units

Our place is very expensive due to where it is and not up to the standards of some of the other examples in the thread, but it has about 180 units, a mix of studios, one bed and two bed apartmnets. We have a pool, hot tub, a large gas-fired barbeque by the pool, sauna (one per sex), gym (small, one set of weights and maybe 8 cardio machines plus some other equipment), a shared clubhouse (basically a kitchen area, with several small dining tables, and a huge 'living room' area with TV and sofa) which can be be rented for parties, two guest suites for rent (if friends staying and you don't have a spare room, it's basically a cheaper hotel room right near your place), and a few other things -

There's no full time staff on site for any of those amenities, just those for apartment maintenance and the letting office. Everything else (garbage, landscaping, pool cleaning, etc) is contractors that show up for a few hours every day or week, then head off to another job - lifeguards would typically only be at popular public beaches or the city-run pools with paid admission, not the little 5-15m pools in apartment complexes

Those amenities are not considered not 'standard', as many smaller places don't have those facilities, but anywhere with more than 20 apartments in this area has some combination of the above (pool being most common, then gym, then some combination of the others), i've seen larger places with multiple tennis courts, 10-30 seat cinema, business centers, pool/snooker rooms, childrens' playgrounds, etc

Back to what SpaceTime said earlier in the thread, this is the most jarring difference for me between the rental market here (California) and in Ireland; the rental market in Ireland has a serious stink of amateurism in my opinion.
Looking at Daft and in this forum, you often see barely livable crap at the same price as genuinely nice places, no rental price adjustments based on length of lease, no economies of scale on maintenance via having full time staff managing multiple units, poor maintenance of common areas, awful letting agents, lack of unfurnished units in favor of apartments stuffed with hideous crap from bargaintown - the whole thing feels very shoddy and temporary, basically

For example about 'professionalism', when you look at renting in a centrally managed US apartment building (there are of course buildings where the units are owned and may or may nor be leased by the owner directly) the yields on each unit are carefully calculated.
As a result the monthly price varies based how many months you want to rent for, which unit it is, where it is in the complex, etc.
In our complex, the units near the pool are also slightly more expensive (like, 30 a month or something) which I assume is because the've learned that those units have slightly higher demand and factored that into the calculations.

I could take a 7 month lease if i wanted, but i'd pay a lot more per month than the 12 month lease because they've factored the turnover time needed to repaint and/or renovate after i leave, what the expected market rate for the unit will be at the end of my lease, how likely a vacant period is at the end of my lease, etc, into the equation

SpaceTime

Life guards at a pool here would be basically legally required. Failure to provide them would result in almost certain law suits if anyone were injured.

There's no just smell of amateurism. The Irish and British rental markets are run by armatures there's no other way of describing it.

If you're renting in many continental countries there's a possibility of a bit of stability and long term leases.

In Ireland all that has to happen is the landlord says they need it for a family member and you're out on your ear.

You basically can't rent unfurnished other than in very rare circumstances and the quality of fit out is cheap as possible as landlords tend to assume the worst and it's all coming out of their back pocket so as long as it reaches bare minimum standards they'll do it.

Some of the stuff I've rented in the UK for *very* high prices was basically slumlord quality.

Every property is stacked on another property and mortgaged to the hilt, so they all squeeze up the prices and siphon off as much as possible.

Even buying an apartment here is a joke as management companies are usually just a scam to get even more money out of you for no services. I've had abysmal experiences with apartments here where zero maintenance was going on despite hefty "management" fees being extracted.

The whole concept is that it's all about low standards, high price and a notion that if you're renting you've obviously got something wrong with you.

We've a totally deluded idea is what rental is here and it's unlikely to change as its basically engrained in the culture of both of these islands.

handlemaster

Terrontress wrote: »

Go to Berlin and he'll find an apartment at half the price of Dublin. He'll also have a lease which protects him more than his landlord and he'll have a long lease.

But he'll likely earn a lot less than in Dublin so there's a tradeoff there.

No one country has all the answers.

i bet he will have to have more documents also plus buy all furniture and white goods... and find it just as difficult to get a place to rent

GreatDefector

Mint Aero wrote: »

Are you people for real or what???

Lets say an apt, 100 of them in a block, 2 rooms per apt all paying a grand a month. And some how you think that's not enough moola for a 25m indoor pool. Or one room with mirror as a gym?? Hahaha, the irish for ya.

But 100k per month in ireland is going to about 100 different people because no one company owns the lot

Yeah 100k might have enough left over niceties but only if a company owns every property in the development

100k per month is only 1.2m a year and that's assuming max capacity

Brasso

GreatDefector wrote: »

But 100k per month in ireland is going to about 100 different people because no one company owns the lot

Yeah 100k might have enough left over niceties but only if a company owns every property in the development

100k per month is only 1.2m a year and that's assuming max capacity

I thought of the gasworks apartment in Dublin when I was reading your post, 210 apartments with one owner I think. But I went on to their website and it seems the only "amenity" they have is bike and car parking.

robp

SpaceTime wrote: »

Life guards at a pool here would be basically legally required. Failure to provide them would result in almost certain law suits if anyone were injured.

There's no just smell of amateurism. The Irish and British rental markets are run by armatures there's no other way of describing it.

If you're renting in many continental countries there's a possibility of a bit of stability and long term leases.

In Ireland all that has to happen is the landlord says they need it for a family member and you're out on your ear.

I don't think its enough to attribute the difference to culture. We have to ask why is the market different. In Germany you get long leases, stability and unfurnished flats but you won't find too many cheap apartments with pools and gyms. As mentioned before if apartment quality is high local income levels tend to be pretty low. The real comparison is not between Ireland/ UK and elsewhere, it is between Europe and elsewhere else specially the US. Texas is an exemplary example. The US has a highly successful economy that favours competition. So I would attribute the difference to a relentless capitalist culture that cuts through bureaucracy plus lots and lots of cheap land. Land is over valued in Ireland. Like Ireland US home owner is very high and average income is high and actually higher then Ireland.

Mint Aero

Yer all caught up in the notions of swimming pools lads. Even the quality of places to rent is p*ss poor. Every single 500 a month apt share outside of Dublin is the exact same in this country. Sh*tty boxes with electric heaters, immersion showers and nothing else. Oh wait I forgot, horrible furniture, small freezers, a hole in the wall where a tele should be, and lovely emulsion paint walls. :rolleyes:

The rental market on daft is the stuff of nightmares, had an email from a letting agency earlier this week advertising the stuff, you'd swear it was the Ritz, I nearly got sick when I saw the pictures.

mvt

Man brings up swimming pool in 3rd line of OP & then complains about other posters:rolleyes:

daRobot

>OP

The standard is poor, because the market is in a state where buyers will willingly accept that standard. There's no reason for landlords to spend on anything but the bare minimum.

Tullyvale in Cabinteely has a pool and gym onsite, if that floats your boat.

Nonoperational

If there's one thing that really annoys the ****e out of me is people bitching with an air of superiority about moving here. You're the one moving here, rent a nice apartment and join a nice gym. We can't have outdoor pools here and you know it. If Ireland is so beneath you then shag off and stay where you are.

Mint Aero

daRobot wrote: »

>OP

The standard is poor, because the market is in a state where buyers will willingly accept that standard. There's no reason for landlords to spend on anything but the bare minimum.

Tullyvale in Cabinteely has a pool and gym onsite, if that floats your boat.

Actually no, I for one are not willing to accept and will haggle any turd landlord looking for more than he's worth.

Nonoperational wrote: »

If there's one thing that really annoys the ****e out of me is people bitching with an air of superiority about moving here. You're the one moving here, rent a nice apartment and join a nice gym. We can't have outdoor pools here and you know it. If Ireland is so beneath you then shag off and stay where you are.

This is the problem, there is nothing half decent on the market for a young professional in this country. I mentioned nothing about outdoor pools and the word CAN'T is not in my dictionary so take your attitude elsewhere sunshine 0/

Easog

You can rent a flat in Lanesboro. County Longford for 150 a week. Lough Ree is located right outside if you want a swim. They are freshly painted and have timber floors. You will have to buy your own telly. Keep an eye on bargain alerts on this site.

ted1

Mint Aero wrote: »

No the UK has an abundance of apts with swimming pools, private movie rooms, gyms, concierges etc.

High rise apartments have CHP plants that they can use to heat the pool. We don't have that in Ireland. Tullyvake in cherrywood has a pool . Can't think of any where else.
Most people would prefer to join a local gym with a pool that be forced to pay for one that they may or may not used in their maintenance fees.

Also as someone who uses pools for actually swimming in, if it's not at least 25m then it's pointless. It costs about 120k to heat a 25 m pool a year. What do you think that this would add to the charge v joking a private gym

SpaceTime

Solar pool heating is very common in hotter climates and that massively reduces costs.

The issue in Ireland is simply lack of supply and high demand which has driven prices up.

There's a constant notion that they shouldn't incentivise companies to build rental properties and that somehow it should be an extension of the regular housing market. That drives up purchase prices as home buyers are competing with small time speculators and drives quality of the rental sector WAY down as its all amateur landlords on shoestring budgets.

This is driven by government housing policy which is driven by lobbying by greedy banks and a landlord class who don't want to see any change.

ted1

Mint Aero wrote: »

Finally an answer and not just a bunch of landlords making excuses for themselves.

It's the developers noti the landlord that provide the services. Few landlords have the option of providing a pool or not.



I guess you hear what you want to hear.

the_syco

Mint Aero wrote: »

Typical self deprecating Irish :rolleyes: Yera begorrah you and your notions of a pool sure yera t'idnt there water in the bog till be good enough for ya.

Generally, you can't have nice things in Ireland. If there was a pool in a complex, it'd be riddled with pee and other unknown things.

SpaceTime wrote: »

There's no just smell of amateurism. The Irish and British rental markets are run by armatures there's no other way of describing it.

It'd be nice if one company could own all of the apartments, but I doubt there is anything like that in Ireland. And even if there was, as the laws permit people to live rent free for a year or more, I can't see anyone risking building something nice.

pwurple

Tenants friken behave themselves in other countries. That's why we can't have nice things here. Look at the threads in this forum. People annoyed that their landlord has taken exception to 5 huge indoor animals that chewed all the carpentry in the house.

Op, I rented for a long time, in a few countries, including Ireland. And I'm a landlord. To get good quality accommodation in any of them, go UNFURNISHED only. Otherwise it is student territory. Landlords are protecting themselves by putting in low cost furniture. I only let unfurnished now. That way I get grown-up tenants.

handlemaster

Mint Aero wrote: »

Yer all caught up in the notions of swimming pools lads. Even the quality of places to rent is p*ss poor. Every single 500 a month apt share outside of Dublin is the exact same in this country. Sh*tty boxes with electric heaters, immersion showers and nothing else. Oh wait I forgot, horrible furniture, small freezers, a hole in the wall where a tele should be, and lovely emulsion paint walls. :rolleyes:

The rental market on daft is the stuff of nightmares, had an email from a letting agency earlier this week advertising the stuff, you'd swear it was the Ritz, I nearly got sick when I saw the pictures.

tenants can if they want buy their own furniture. The problem with buying expensive furniture that wont be looked after , not appreciated in most cases i.e. tenant will not pay more for, plus low rent with high tax just makes this investment improbable.

murphaph

SpaceTime wrote: »

If you're renting in many continental countries there's a possibility of a bit of stability and long term leases.

In Ireland all that has to happen is the landlord says they need it for a family member and you're out on your ear.

German law also allows the landlord to terminate the lease if he or his immediate family needs the property for their own use.

Agree with the broad thrust of your post though. Rental sector needs attention from the legislators to make it fit for purpose for all sides.

Calina

pwurple wrote: »

Op, I rented for a long time, in a few countries, including Ireland. And I'm a landlord. To get good quality accommodation in any of them, go UNFURNISHED only. Otherwise it is student territory. Landlords are protecting themselves by putting in low cost furniture. I only let unfurnished now. That way I get grown-up tenants.

Getting unfurnished in Ireland is extremely difficult.

ON the OP's comments, I have been recently looking at accommodation in Brussels as well. A few of their apartment blocks have pools. One, which I looked at, had a one bedroomed apartment for 950E, was 5 minutes walk from a metro station and in a very decent area because I happen to know it. It's not just living in a solar intensive area that enables pools. It's a will to provide services and improve things. Oh and that 1 bed apartment was about 50% bigger than most 1 bed apartments in Dublin.

There are issues with rental in Ireland, mostly because it has historically been temporary, and has also some past as being a student economic activity. There is a lack of business trust between tenants having their deposits kept and landlords having properties trashed. I don't think the latter is more common than the former, by the way, but it certainly gets more publicity sometimes.

In the meantime, the Irish rental market needs both a regulatory and a cultural change and even if we get that, we still won't get decent facilities in them because goddammit it was far from apartment blocks with swimming pools you were raised and yerrah it'll do.

robp

SpaceTime wrote: »

This is driven by government housing policy which is driven by lobbying by greedy banks and a landlord class who don't want to see any change.

If this rental market was fully driven by the landlord class it is surprising how heavily taxed rental income is. The fact that being a landlord is so unprofitable doesn't nicely agree with the theory policy is dominated by their interests. Perhaps it is time to reduce barriers to entry to investors wishing to become landlords.

athtrasna

Thread closed.