Soundproofing Ceilings

InvisibleWoman

Short story, we want to soundproof our ceilings against impact noise. We have been told that the best option will be to install either a sound insulation board such as A) Mustwall 33B for ceilings or constructing a new suspended ceiling to the existing ceiling by attaching wall plates to the walls to give the shortest room span and run new ceiling joists between them. Then we should install mineral wool between the new ceiling joists, before covering with two plasterboard layers, making sure the joints between the sheets in the first and second layer do not coincide and finally seal the perimeter and all other sound paths with flexible sealant.

We have been warned either option can add considerable weight to the ceilings and the overall structure, so we should check that the ceiling above can carry the increased loads satisfactorily.

1) has anyone installed mustwall 33db to block impact noise?
2) has anyone installed a double ceiling to block impact noise?

Any comments on either options likelihood of success?

How could we test the ceilings ability to cope with the additional weight?

Any idea on costs? Recommendations of builders/installers by PM for Dublin gratefully received.

writhen

33b is designed for airborne noise insulation not impact sound insulation.

Calahonda52

Address the impact t noise at source or as close to at source as possible.
What exactly is the source e of the impact noise?
Describe the construction set up please.

Neither option described will do much for you at some expense.

Neither do I see how a new ceiling , hung off new wall plates, adds to the existing being loads so I smell sales rather than technical solutions

InvisibleWoman

We own a duplex apartment. The new neighbours upstairs moved in in February as first occupants of the apartment. The upstairs property was fitted out with laminate floors in the living room, and tiles in the kitchen; both areas are directly above our bedrooms. The noise starts early in the morning (5.30/6am) waking everyone in our apartment. The noise usually stops about 8.30am during the week as the neighbours go to work and school, and it starts again from 2.30pm, when the kids return home. It finally stops again about 12.30am/1am, but we frequently get woken up again about 1.30/2am when one of the occupants returns home from night shift.

The noise is;
Furniture dragging
Banging (we think it's chairs being picked up and dropped)
Tapping (we think it's a mop or broom being smacked against the skirting boards)
Slamming - doors, presses and drWers
Jumping (3 kids, aged 7-13ish)
Running (see above)
Singing (tuneless, and often at midnight or dawn)
Piano playing (badly, along with the singing)
Items dropping (various, but think balls, marbles, pens etc)

The apartment is made of concrete rectangle boxes, laid on top of each other. Within each box is a wooden separating floor, which forms the upper floor of each apartment eg our ground floor and top floor ceiling is concrete, but the ceiling of the ground floor/floor of the upper floor is wood
(Does that make sense?)

The noise is 70% audible only in the main bedrooms, but a lot does travel into our lower floor and can be heard over the TV / hob fan in the kitchen. We don't hear the occupants of the other apartments, just the people above. The other neighbours are appalled by the noise we are suffering from, as they don't have the same issues we do (they've been in to listen, and vice versa)

We were told by a building surveyor that we should put in mustwall 33b or a suspended ceiling.

the REALLY long story is here
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057401723&page=31

Calahonda52

Thanks for the detailed up date: sounds like a right problem
Know all about it from an apt we had in Spain.

Trying to understand the construction layers

Upstairs neighbours
Tiles or laminate
?
?
?
Your ceiling
2.4m
your floor

Am assuming all walls are concrete

Re the recommendation:
Get him in to measure the noise level in dB (A) now at 5 am and then ask what dB he will guarantee, against his PI insurance, once the work is done.
My guess is he won't.
The other problem is that sound at 5am is much bigger a problem that during the day as background noise increases.

The issue is to try and dampen the transmission of sound through the floor above.
The theory is that if the mass is great enough the sound gets absorbed: think of a drum, if the material is thick enough there won't be any sound.

The they tents or owners above?

InvisibleWoman

Under the laminate and tiles there is no underlay, it's been laid straight onto their concrete floor (which constitutes our ceiling). We have mineral wool between the concrete and the plasterboard.

The property is tenanted, and the tenants are not helpful. They've been told by their landlord they can do as they like. The owner is a housing trust who told us the fault lies with us as we are a couple living in a family area. The PTRB doesn't apply. We have a complaint with the CC but they have 12 weeks to return a decision and we are at week 8 or 9.

The trust did put carpet on top of the laminate but this has not given any relief as the laminate still bounces / vibrates against the concrete floor.

As an indication, the noise started at 7.20am this morning. We left the house at 10.15am to get some peace, and came back at 3pm, with noise still going on. Friday night we got the whole she-bang until 1.40am - doors slamming, jumping, running, furniture being dragged, banging, something being dropped repeatedly, singing and as a new entrant to the spectrum of 'drive your neighbours insane' it sounded like a scooter was being ridden inside.

We are desperate for any solution.

InvisibleWoman

Boundary walls of our apartment are concrete (eg between us and neighbours on all sides/ levels). Our internal walls are standard plasterboard with insulation. Our floors on all levels have impact sound underlay (including under our tiles)

writhen

You should investigate what type of underlay was used and how it was laid.

Calahonda52

writhen wrote: »

You should investigate what type of underlay was used and how it was laid.

If you read the thread you will see there was none:(

OP, Unless the sound source can be managed from within the offending apt, then I don't see much prospect of any tech solution working from your side to any degree of satisfaction.
I did my first research on sound in 1975 and it is notoriously difficult to deal with if not done at source.

In addition, it is second to lighting in terms of the human psychic and the mental impact.

I don't need to tell you this but once it gets into your head, even a low sound will "do your head in"

The sound proofing needs to be done from within the offending apartment.

The housing trust attitude is both wrong and appalling.

However one would need a deep pocket to take them on as it would be a High Court action.

The best suggestion I can make is that you consider moving.

I know its an extreme suggestion but it might be the best option in the medium/long run.

Am sorry can't be more helpful.

InvisibleWoman

writhen wrote: »

You should investigate what type of underlay was used and how it was laid.

There was no underlay under the tiles or the laminate - both were laid directly on the concrete.

The carpet that was laid on top of the laminate has 7mm (e.g. on top of the laminate, but under the layer of carpet).

InvisibleWoman

Calahonda52 wrote: »

If you read the thread you will see there was none:(

OP, Unless the sound source can be managed from within the offending apt, then I don't see much prospect of any tech solution working from your side to any degree of satisfaction.
I did my first research on sound in 1975 and it is notoriously difficult to deal with if not done at source.

In addition, it is second to lighting in terms of the human psychic and the mental impact.

I don't need to tell you this but once it gets into your head, even a low sound will "do your head in"

The sound proofing needs to be done from within the offending apartment.

The housing trust attitude is both wrong and appalling.

However one would need a deep pocket to take them on as it would be a High Court action.

The best suggestion I can make is that you consider moving.

I know its an extreme suggestion but it might be the best option in the medium/long run.

Am sorry can't be more helpful.

Unfortunately moving is not an option.

1) We brought the property and if we moved now, we would come out at a large loss as we invested heavily in fitting it out, expecting to be here 10 years plus or more
2) We are on low incomes, so would struggle to save a deposit while paying higher rents
3) We are on low incomes, which have changed since we purchased, so we probably wouldn't get a new mortgage
4) Our mortgage repayment is 2/3s of the rent of a similar property

Current process is the CC complaint. Once this is complete, we will complain to the Court under Noise legislation. Hopefully by then, the housing trust will be under the remit of the PRTB (new legislation coming in), so we'll complain under that. And if those three options don't work, hopefully by then I'll have the confidence to try a court case as a lay litigant.

We offered to contribute to replacing / upgrading the floors upstairs with decent underlay (against all advice), but this was refused by the housing trust.