Melted wires

Richard tea

Starting a new thread as its separate form my carb problem. Long and short of it is the bike had little use since last oct. I fitted the carbs back and went to work on the bike yesterday. Within minutes I could smell smoke and the 3 yellow wires coming from the alternator were melting at the connection. I have fitted new wire and made good connections. The battey is not getting charged as the volts dont raise above 12v. I followed youtube guides and tested the mosfet R/R and that checked out fine.

1. I have traced the 3 yellow wires going back to the alternator. I want to check that all 3 wires are connected properly. When I was refitting the carbs alot of pressure was placed on the airbox which may have crushed/severed one of the 3 yellow wires. Can I use a multimeter to check if these wires are ok? If so what settings to use and what should the reading be?

2. This could also be a possible cause. Im not 100% sure I have the ignition coils connected correctly. The only guide I could find was a guide for a 250 hornet. How can I find out the correct connections for my cb400 super four NC31? If these are connected wrong could this cause my alternator wire overheating problem?

TeaBagMania

You’re in dangerous territory, get a Honda Factory Service Manual specific to your year, make, and model then start tracing wires and following trouble shooting procedures before you melt the entire wiring loom.

Richard tea

TeaBagMania wrote: »

You’re in dangerous territory, get a Honda Factory Service Manual specific to your year, make, and model then start tracing wires and following trouble shooting procedures before you melt the entire wiring loom.

Been there bought the T-shirt regarding the manuals.

TeaBagMania

All the factory service manuals should have procedures for testing individual components. i.e., alternator, regulator\rectifier, etc.

Are there any aftermarket electrical items added to the bike.

You can start by following individual wires from the alternator and check for any chafing or cracks that would allow it to ground\earth out

Richard tea

TeaBagMania wrote: »

All the factory service manuals should have procedures for testing individual components. i.e., alternator, regulator\rectifier, etc.

Are there any aftermarket electrical items added to the bike.

You can start by following individual wires from the alternator and check for any chafing or cracks that would allow it to ground\earth out

I fitted a mosfet reg/rec nearly 2 years ago and it worked fine. The only half decent service manual for my bike is a Russian translated version.

I have tested the reg/rec with a multimeter and it seems fine.

Chippy01

Take a look here - http://www.electrosport.com/technical-resources/diagnosis-center/fault-finding-guide

It might help you pinpoint the problem.

Richard tea

Chippy01 wrote: »

Take a look here - http://www.electrosport.com/technical-resources/diagnosis-center/fault-finding-guide

It might help you pinpoint the problem.

Thanks chippy Ive gone over that guide many a time. I have found a guide to put the ignition coils back correctly.

Im trying to avoid removing the alternator cover until I rule some things out first. For example I checked the main fuse which looked ok but im going to change it just to be sure. There is not enough hours in the day when it comes to an electrical problem:mad:

I could be saved a lot of hassle if someone can answer this... Could connecting up the ignition coils cause the alternator wire overheating issue? Is not that rules out messing with them. I have thecked the coils with a multimeter and they seem fine.

Also, in my frustration I might have connected up the battery terminals wrong at some stage.I say might have because ive had the battery in and out 50 million times at this stage and cant be sure:o, could I have screwed the cdi unit? Could this have caused my problem?

CJhaughey

The coils will not affect the wires heating,
Heating is caused by resistance, strip the wire near the connector running back towards the alternator, is the wire corroded, or have some verdigris on it? Greenish in colour. If it does then that is what is causing the heating. Like an electric blanket wire or heated grips.
Get some heavier gauge wire if you are running new wires, the old stuff is probably too light as well.
2mm would be good.

Get a meter and check the resistance between the three yellow wires. there should be between 0.1 and 1 Ohm between any two of the three wires.
Then check for continuity between the yellow wires and ground.
There should be no continuity, if there is something is wrong.

The last thing is to make sure all the earths are good, undo the bolts, clean the bolt, terminal and where it connects to the frame very well until the whole lot is shiny and then reassemble.
Good earthing is very important.
From the R/R go directly to the Battery with a fused connection.
Don't rely on crimps, if in doubt crimp and solder the terminal.
Bad connections will cause high resistance= Heat.

Richard tea

CJhaughey wrote: »

The coils will not affect the wires heating,
Heating is caused by resistance, strip the wire near the connector running back towards the alternator, is the wire corroded, or have some verdigris on it? Greenish in colour. If it does then that is what is causing the heating. Like an electric blanket wire or heated grips.
Get some heavier gauge wire if you are running new wires, the old stuff is probably too light as well.
2mm would be good.

Get a meter and check the resistance between the three yellow wires. there should be between 0.1 and 1 Ohm between any two of the three wires.
Then check for continuity between the yellow wires and ground.
There should be no continuity, if there is something is wrong.

The last thing is to make sure all the earths are good, undo the bolts, clean the bolt, terminal and where it connects to the frame very well until the whole lot is shiny and then reassemble.
Good earthing is very important.
From the R/R go directly to the Battery with a fused connection.
Don't rely on crimps, if in doubt crimp and solder the terminal.
Bad connections will cause high resistance= Heat.

So far i have checked all fuses which are fine.
I tested the resistance of the 3 yellow wires going to the alternator and the readings came back as .6 and when I tested to continuity to ground nothing showed up.

Eastern beaver made up the fused cable going from the rr to the battery and it has no signs of damage or corrosion. Im going to try and find all earth points now.

Richard tea

So the continuity and resistance showed up good with the multimeter. But an increase in rpm did not increase volts. Im thinking the alternator is bad. Ill post some pics and maybe some of you might be able to tel if its bad or not.

Hotblack Desiato

Richard tea wrote: »

So the continuity and resistance showed up good with the multimeter. But an increase in rpm did not increase volts. Im thinking the alternator is bad. Ill post some pics and maybe some of you might be able to tel if its bad or not.

The resistances checked out OK so the stator should be fine.

What tests have you done on the rec-reg as that sounds like the culprit to me.
e.g. DC volts across the battery at idle, 2000rpm, 4000rpm, 6000rpm?
same but on AC volts? (this checks the rectifier - the AC voltage should be very low as this measures the 'ripple' on the charging current)

You could also disconnect the stator from the rec-reg entirely and then start the bike (battery will obviously get no charge when you're doing this) and check the AC volts between each yellow wire and a good earth. Should be about 70 volts AC at 4000rpm if I recall correctly, and should increase with rpm. that'll prove the stator is working ok.

Connecting the battery the wrong way round is probably the cause. If you connect the coils wrongly you'll get a misfire or failure to start but that's not going to affect the charging circuit.

serious3

ah yes the good old honda melting wires.... by your figures the resistance in the stator is good, try as ^ disconnect the plug from itself and put the multimeter to AC and check the volts across all three yellow wires, my africa twin put out about 35-40v as long as they are all the same (roughly) then they should be ok. its not unheard of for mosfet's to fail either. there is no way to check a reg rec as far as i know. when refitting check and clean everything and chop the plug out of the sstem and solder the wires to gether. oh and run an extra earth from the neg terminal on the battery to a clean new spot on the frame

Richard tea

Thanks lads. I'll have a look in the morning

Richard tea

I suppose it is looking like the RR. Having only fitted it just over a year ago I really didnt want that to be the culprit. The test I done on the RR was just the diode test with the multimeter but as mentioned this does not guarantee the RR works fully. Ill have to refill the bike with oil and use some gasket seal stuff now when I refit the stator.

If it is the RR should I try and find the same replacement? another Mosfet? I only ask because im not sure these modern RR's are suitable for my 20 year old banger.

Richard tea

Ok I have the alternator fitted back and cover on. Ill fill her up with oil tomorrow.

I remember searching for my mosfet RR last time with little joy. The one I have is the FH011AA. Should I stick with this model number or try something different? I would like to have ordered a replacement by tomorrow night if possible. From that I remember I got my last one for £35.

I have charged my battery and will test it when I get home from work tonight. The battery is possibly 5+ years old so im going to replace it anyway with a HOPEFULLY good working charging system.

I know CJ tried explaining this mosfet jargon before but it still goes over my head. So basically what replacement RR can you recommend?

serious3

Where are you richardtea? I've a new yamaha r6 reg rec in my shed it fitted my Honda but I replaced it with a mosfet one

Wonda-Boy

serious3 wrote: »

Where are you richardtea? I've a new yamaha r6 reg rec in my shed it fitted my Honda but I replaced it with a mosfet one

He is in Kinnegad m8

Richard tea

serious3 wrote: »

Where are you richardtea? I've a new yamaha r6 reg rec in my shed it fitted my Honda but I replaced it with a mosfet one

Sorry for the late reply Serious, just in from work. As wonda mentioned im in the midlands. Is the Yam R6 RR not a mosfet type? Maybe soemone will know if it will suit my bike. At this stage it will be Monday before I can carry out some final checks to determine if its defo the RR gone

My current rr is the same as this http://roadstercycle.com/Easy%20Mosfet%20Install.htm

serious3

just checked there and its a normal bog std reg/rec

Richard tea

serious3 wrote: »

just checked there and its a normal bog std reg/rec

Thanks anyway serious. I have found this http://www.ebay.ie/itm/Yamaha-YZF-R1-RN12-R1-Voltage-regulator-Rectifier-04-06-/231489391172?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item35e5d7ca44 which seems a good price. Like I said though it will be tomorrow before I can defo rule confirm my RR is actually at fault.

Quick one lads regarding the battery. 22 hrs have passed since I charged the battery and its not showing 12.78v How does this look?

Richard tea

ok so I pulled off dumb move of the week:o I changed the multimeter settings to the V~ and im getting roughly 25v from the alternator wires at idle and roughly 55v at 5000rpm. So my alternator is fine. Looks to be the RR thats goosed.

Screw you Honda & screw you electricity:mad:

serious3

Richard tea wrote: »

ok so I pulled off dumb move of the week:o I changed the multimeter settings to the V~ and im getting roughly 25v from the alternator wires at idle and roughly 55v at 5000rpm. So my alternator is fine. Looks to be the RR thats goosed.

Screw you Honda & screw you electricity:mad:

been there....done that....

Richard tea

New RR finally arrived this morning. Same poxy problem. Same readings as the old RR. I know its possible the new RR could be faulty but fingers crossed its not. Im stumped now & to make matters worse I have no time to investigate until Sunday. I had the new battery fitted also.

Just to recap im getting the correct readings from the 3 yellow alternator wires. Im not sure if its possible but I wonder if the wiring from the heated grips I fitted is causing the problem.

Anyone around the midlands or Dublin with a Mosfet type RR fitted to their machine. It would be handy to rule out both my RR's as the problem?

Any suggestions lads?

blade1

Richard tea wrote: »

New RR finally arrived this morning. Same poxy problem. Same readings as the old RR. I know its possible the new RR could be faulty but fingers crossed its not. Im stumped now & to make matters worse I have no time to investigate until Sunday. I had the new battery fitted also.

Just to recap im getting the correct readings from the 3 yellow alternator wires. Im not sure if its possible but I wonder if the wiring from the heated grips I fitted is causing the problem.

Anyone around the midlands or Dublin with a Mosfet type RR fitted to their machine. It would be handy to rule out both my RR's as the problem?

Any suggestions lads?

Burnt wire somewhere???
Is everything around the Main fuse/solenoid area looking in good shape?

Richard tea

blade1 wrote: »

Burnt wire somewhere???
Is everything around the Main fuse/solenoid area looking in good shape?

Everything looks fine. Originally the alternator connection overheated so I stripped this out and soldered a connection.

What happens now is the 3 yellow alternator wires are getting quite hot and the battery aint getting charged

blade1

You are losing the power somewhere.
You would be unlucky for both R/R's to be faulty.

Richard tea

Just thought I would put it out there. Is it possible the ground and red wire coming from the rr is faulty? Like i mentioned I'm not home till Sunday but just thought I would put it out there. Can i check these 2 wires like i checked the 3 yellow alternator wires?

CJhaughey

Richard tea wrote: »

Just thought I would put it out there. Is it possible the ground and red wire coming from the rr is faulty? Like i mentioned I'm not home till Sunday but just thought I would put it out there. Can i check these 2 wires like i checked the 3 yellow alternator wires?

You can check them, use the Electrosport fault finding guide and follow that.
Electrical faults can be infuriating but a step by step logical approach should see you right.
You will find it but it can take time.
I was hoping that this wasn't you!http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/motorcycle-catches-fire-on-dublins-pearse-street-684841.html

Richard tea

CJhaughey wrote: »

You can check them, use the Electrosport fault finding guide and follow that.
Electrical faults can be infuriating but a step by step logical approach should see you right.
You will find it but it can take time.
I was hoping that this wasn't you!http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/motorcycle-catches-fire-on-dublins-pearse-street-684841.html

Lol. Not unless someone stole my bike. Sitting in luton airport at the moment. The thoughts of probing and prodding with my multimeter is soul destroying

Richard tea

Sorted:) Thanks for all the info and advice all

It turned out to be the positive cable connecting to the battery. The cable had come loose form the ring under the shrink wrap. On the bright side I have a spare working RR and a new battery which was needed anyway. Im going to take it for a short spin now to test it out after the carb clean and so on.

CJhaughey

Richard tea wrote: »

Sorted:) Thanks for all the info and advice all

It turned out to be the positive cable connecting to the battery. The cable had come loose form the ring under the shrink wrap. On the bright side I have a spare working RR and a new battery which was needed anyway. Im going to take it for a short spin now to test it out after the carb clean and so on.

Great news, was the loose ring from your own crimp job or was it the eastern beaver wiring?

Richard tea

CJhaughey wrote: »

Great news, was the loose ring from your own crimp job or was it the eastern beaver wiring?

Nearly sure it was my own:o I have had the battery in and out so many times its no wonder it came loose.

CJhaughey

Richard tea wrote: »

Nearly sure it was my own:o I have had the battery in and out so many times its no wonder it came loose.

Might be worth soldering the joint as well.