Taking up Physics

bearsornobears

Hi, looked around the forums and could not find an answer for my question,

I am currently going into TY, but am in a bit of a sticky situation. I really want to do physics/chemistry for Leaving, but I did not do science for Junior Cert. I am willing to put the time and effort in, but I want to know, is it possible? Could I take grinds, or a course, or something at all during TY to set me up for the Leaving in, more preferably physics, or chemistry?

I want to get a course in aeronautics/ aeroplane mechanics and all that, but the courses need physics, and sometimes chemisty. I was dumb enough to not take science in JC, and am in ordinary level maths. I just want to know should I focus on other things now, or take the time to go for physics.

Thank you, I hope all of your Leaving Cert exams went well if you took them!

Bazinga_N

bearsornobears wrote: »

Hi, looked around the forums and could not find an answer for my question,

I am currently going into TY, but am in a bit of a sticky situation. I really want to do physics/chemistry for Leaving, but I did not do science for Junior Cert. I am willing to put the time and effort in, but I want to know, is it possible? Could I take grinds, or a course, or something at all during TY to set me up for the Leaving in, more preferably physics, or chemistry?

I want to get a course in aeronautics/ aeroplane mechanics and all that, but the courses need physics, and sometimes chemisty. I was dumb enough to not take science in JC, and am in ordinary level maths. I just want to know should I focus on other things now, or take the time to go for physics.

Thank you, I hope all of your Leaving Cert exams went well if you took them!

Well a friend of mine never did science for her JC and is doing HL Chemistry now and seems to be getting on fine.

With Physics I think it'd actually be easier because there's very few stuff from the JC course that you'd really need for the LC course. Most of what you learn in JC is either repeated and built upon or else found to be 'untrue' in LC.

Honestly if you're only going into TY it might be no harm getting a hold of a JC science textbook and going through the Physics or Chemistry sections. Just by reading through them you should get a fairly good understanding of them throughout this year and feel comfortable enough to take on LC Physics/Chemistry.

Talk to the LC Chemistry and Physics teacher(s) in your school and ask for their opinions. Tell them that you really need to take Physics and/or Chemistry for your LC due to course requirements and I'm sure they'd be willing to assist and accomodate you.

DarraghF197

Pretty much what Bazinga said above.

If you feel that Physics/Chemistry becomes too overwhelming, you could do Physics and Chemistry combined. It's a much easier subject that focuses on the basics of Physics and of Chemistry. Although you'd need to check your course requirements to see if you'd be able to use that.

Other than that, go for it! As said above as well, no harm looking through the JC book going through some Physics. You don't really need to know it really. Although I'd advise learning what pressure is and the formula, density, speed etc. Theyre the main building blocks for Leaving Cert Physics.

qweerty

DarraghF197 wrote: »

Pretty much what Bazinga said above.

If you feel that Physics/Chemistry becomes too overwhelming, you could do Physics and Chemistry combined. It's a much easier subject that focuses on the basics of Physics and of Chemistry. Although you'd need to check your course requirements to see if you'd be able to use that.

Other than that, go for it! As said above as well, no harm looking through the JC book going through some Physics. You don't really need to know it really. Although I'd advise learning what pressure is and the formula, density, speed etc. Theyre the main building blocks for Leaving Cert Physics.

Pretty much what both the above said, except I wouldn't bother going through a textbook (JC text too easy and LC one too hard) and don't agree that PhysChem is much easier (DarraghF197, you might want to check out this year's paper; it was probably harder than the physics one).

deaddonkey15

If it's aeronautical engineering you are thinking of doing, you will need higher level maths.

Solid_Shepard

bearsornobears wrote: »

Hi, looked around the forums and could not find an answer for my question,

I am currently going into TY, but am in a bit of a sticky situation. I really want to do physics/chemistry for Leaving, but I did not do science for Junior Cert. I am willing to put the time and effort in, but I want to know, is it possible? Could I take grinds, or a course, or something at all during TY to set me up for the Leaving in, more preferably physics, or chemistry?

I want to get a course in aeronautics/ aeroplane mechanics and all that, but the courses need physics, and sometimes chemisty. I was dumb enough to not take science in JC, and am in ordinary level maths. I just want to know should I focus on other things now, or take the time to go for physics.

Thank you, I hope all of your Leaving Cert exams went well if you took them!

Firstly, to answer the topic of the question, Physics is readily doable without having done science at a Junior Certificate level. While some parts may seem rather challenging, the Junior Certificate only touches upon Physics at a very shallow, unsubstantial level. While it introduces you to various concepts, these concepts will be revisited in the Leaving Certificate and explored in a greater level of detail anyway. As such, you should be capable of doing Physics even without having done it for the Junior Certificate.

However, the text which is bold is a cause for serious concern. Engineering is an extremely maths-intensive course, and the level of mathematics required is very, very challenging. If you are serious about doing engineering, not only is ordinary level maths undeniably not an option, you need to be passionate about the mathematics which you'll be doing if you want to enjoy the course, because that's what you're going to be doing for a substantial period of time at a high level, from the moment you enter college/university, to the moment you leave. It's an incredibly intensive course, and you'll be doing challenging mathematics throughout, for many hours a day. While unfortunately this may seem like a downer, if you are not going to do higher level maths and be competent in it, do not, under any circumstances, pursue engineering because unfortunately you probably will not enjoy studying it and the likelihood of dropping out is very high. In fact, if engineering was indeed what you wanted to do, I'd be highly advising some combination of English, Irish, Maths with choice subjects of a language (unless you've an exemption), physics, chemistry (or a different choice subject), and applied maths as an optimal set of subjects if you're certain this is the path you want to take. While I cannot speak for Chemistry as I did not do it myself, Physics for the Leaving Certificate doesn't require a huge knowledge of (relatively) complex Maths as many seem to believe (simple manipulation of formulae and substitution of values into formulas usually) so it's not a major issue there, but please consider the level of maths that you will need for engineering should you choose to pursue it later; it would be a shame for you to choose physics and chemistry now only so you can pursue engineering, and then to change your mind when you're in sixth year and finishing your exams because your level of maths isn't at a high enough standard.

DarraghF197

qweerty wrote: »

Pretty much what both the above said, except I wouldn't bother going through a textbook (JC text too easy and LC one too hard) and don't agree that PhysChem is much easier (DarraghF197, you might want to check out this year's paper; it was probably harder than the physics one).

Yeah I'm basing my knowledge on one class I had to be in Physchem. The teacher was asking, ok, what's the principle of conservation of momentum? And then asked, what do the letters stand for? I suppose it is unfair to call it easier, that's just what it seemed from what I've seen of it.

Still, I'd advise going through a textbook. The OP may have not covered the fundamentals of Physics in subjects such as Maths, and therefore wouldn't be able to derive the equation for density or pressure. These should be known going into fifth year or one could fine themselves falling away from the pack.

rainbowtrout

I'd agree with Solid Shephard. I'd be extremely concerned that the OP is doing OL Maths for JC rather than about the lack of JC Science.

If the OP wasn't capable of doing HL Maths for JC, they are not going to be doing it for LC, and the maths for Aero Eng is quite intensive and HL maths is a requirement and quite rightly so. UL has a requirement for a C3 in maths at Higher Level. Back in the day when I was going there it was a B3.

Also as a physics teacher, while I wouldn't rule out physics as a Leaving Cert subject, it is mathematical, and while the maths isn't overly difficult, you need to be confident in manipulating formula and calculations.

Peregrine

You shouldn't have a problem doing LC Physics without JC Science but I would echo the concerns above regarding Maths.

rainbowtrout wrote: »

while the maths is overly difficult

Is?

rainbowtrout

Nim wrote: »

Is?

I switched off my brain on May 29th!!! Give a teacher a break!:p

Troxck

Doing LC Physics without JC Science won't really be a problem. However, everyone in my Physics class who did OL Maths also sat the OL Physics paper, maybe there is some correlation after all.

However, planning on doing any sort of engineering while doing Maths at OL at JC would be worrying. If you get an A in JC OL Maths there would be no problem trying to do HL Maths for the Leaving, lads in my year did that (they did struggle with it however).

There's a C3 requirement for most engineering courses but it is advisable that you'd be a B3 student to do well in a course.

This sounds blunt but it's true.

Jdoe

Doing physics, and I can 100% honestly say not one thing I've learned has helped me understand it better. Done science for JC wasn't a very keen student because I didn't like the biology part and we seemed to do that all the time. You will be fine doing physics take notes, learn experiments and ask lots of questions. Pay extra attention at the start of the year because that's where you'll learn all the basics for the entire course.

Best of Luck

deaddonkey15

I think Solid_Shepherd's post over exaggerated the difficulty of mathematics in engineering a small bit. Whilst almost every module you do will involve maths, the majority of it is just application of calculus. If you are comfortable with integration/differentiation and understand the logic behind it, you should do ok. Algebra, trigonometry, matrices are also important but calculus will be at the core of almost every module. You don't need to worry about that now though because the hard part for you is making the jump from OL junior cert maths to HL leaving cert maths. Your school may not even allow it, but I would recommend at least trying if you can - it's not as hard as everyone thinks it is. Get yourself some grinds and if you are at A/B/C standard by time the leaving cert comes round then you will definitely be capable of doing engineering. A lot of the maths I did in LC only started to make sense when I saw real applications in engineering.

Junior cert science has little to do with leaving cert physics. Get yourself grinds in physics and maths whilst you are in transition year, and then you'll be able to make a more informed decision by time you start 5th year.

rainbowtrout

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

I think Solid_Shepherd's post over exaggerated the difficulty of mathematics in engineering a small bit. Whilst almost every module you do will involve maths, the majority of it is just application of calculus. If you are comfortable with integration/differentiation and understand the logic behind it, you should do ok. Algebra, trigonometry, matrices are also important but calculus will be at the core of almost every module. You don't need to worry about that now though because the hard part for you is making the jump from OL junior cert maths to HL leaving cert maths. Your school may not even allow it, but I would recommend at least trying if you can - it's not as hard as everyone thinks it is. Get yourself some grinds and if you are at A/B/C standard by time the leaving cert comes round then you will definitely be capable of doing engineering. A lot of the maths I did in LC only started to make sense when I saw real applications in engineering.

Junior cert science has little to do with leaving cert physics. Get yourself grinds in physics and maths whilst you are in transition year, and then you'll be able to make a more informed decision by time you start 5th year.

I'd disagree deaddonkey. If the OP was already comfortable with maths he'd have done HL maths for JC. To move from OL JC to HL LC maths is almost unheard of. I've personally never seen a student go through the school I teach in and do it in 14 years teaching. Even plenty of students who do HL for JC and get a C in it drop to OL for LC. If higher level LC was that easy everyone would be doing it.

I had 9 in my LC physics class this year. 6 did HL maths and HL physics. 3 did OL maths and OL physics. It's not a coincidence.

deaddonkey15

Im only saying maths in engineering isn't quite as difficult as other posts have made it out to be, and if he's willing to make the jump from OL to HL and get some grinds then there is no reason why he couldn't do engineering if he is at A/B/C standard by time the exams come around. The hard part is getting to that standard, but in 3 years it is very much doable.

bearsornobears

Thank you everyone. I dropped down to OL when we got the form to fill out to say if we were comfortable with our level, so I do have the HL course all in my head. I only dropped as my teacher was a bit horrible and continued to tell me how awful I was and I should drop. Eventually it got to me.

I will take all of your advice! This had been a lot of information, and I will be starting up grinds once the school semester comes back. Sadly, as in an all girls school, I wanted to take up Tech Drawing straight off the bat, but we don't offer it at all, so couldn't go in that direction. So a science it is. I'm only a kid, so if we're speaking honestly, I will probably change my mind in a month or two, but have already been put down for grinds with a family friend.

Once again thank you all, especially the teachers, as its good to have your insight on it!

rainbowtrout

That does put a slightly different perspective on it OP that you did the HL maths course for the three years.

In your favour you are going into TY so you won't have too much homework this year and you can take the time to take a few grinds in maths and see how you get on. It might actually be no harm to take a few in physics as well to see what you think of the course.

Best of luck