Lenihan: A Legacy (RTE 1) 16 June 2015

Lady Chatterton

Brian Lenihan: the inheritor of an Irish political dynasty, Fianna Fáil party stalwart and Minister for Finance during a time of unprecedented crisis-both economic and personal.

This looks interesting.....

I know Brian was part of a government that destroyed our country but on a personal level, I liked Brian Lenihan. I think he was a man of integrity who wanted to do the right thing even if he was misguided at times. The courage he displayed during his (terminal) illness was admirable.

Skid X

You couldn't argue with the man's effort or energy in the face of a horrible disease.

Never easy to do an objective profile of someone who has not long passed. It is easy to be over sentimental.

paleoperson

Agree. So many politicians would be out of there so fast.

I disliked Olivia O' Leary's comment in the ad that she thought he didn't "believe" he was going to die, I thought that was a very weird thing to say. It was clear she was trying to compliment him, but. in my view that was neither smart or accurate and a very sensitive issue to bring up.

Lady Chatterton

I've never forgiven TV3 news for their St. Stephen's Day report about Brian's illness. I remember they had Prof. Crown on to discuss the prognosis and it was clear it wasn't good. It must have been very difficult for his family. I think they should have held off until after Christmas.

Skid X

This diversion to Brian Lenihan Senior's Presidential campaign is bit unneccesary

Fudge You

I know he is dead, but the programme was too nice to him. I disliked him, a lot.
There was positives about the man, and about the politician.

But they didnt even cover any over his budgets, nothing about the April budget 2009, and bringing in the USC in his last budget.
The bailout and the bank guarantee were barely even spoken about. He was the minister of finance during the period making major decisions that caused problems for a lot of people.

I remember the government and cabinet well during 2007-11, and I hated the way they spoofed so many times.

I hate the man, and if he wasnt dead, not many would be so nice to him.
But it is built into many irish people to never say anything negative about a dead person.

paleoperson

Fudge You wrote: »

I hate the man, and if he wasnt dead, not many would be so nice to him.

Rubbish. People hate politicians for corruption and negligence. If you hate him because of a lack of talent then you're nasty, and that hate doesn't appear to have meaning, particularly as he was elected.

Fudge You wrote: »

But it is built into many irish people to never say anything negative about a dead person.

This is ad hominem nonsense. Maybe it is built into you to make erroneous cynical points that fail to hold up to scrutiny.

Fudge You

paleoperson wrote: »

Rubbish. People hate politicians for corruption and negligence. If you hate him because of a lack of talent then you're nasty, and that hate doesn't appear to have meaning, particularly as he was elected.



This is ad hominem nonsense. Maybe it is built into you to make erroneous cynical points that fail to hold up to scrutiny.

Lack of talent?
No, just because he was minister of finance, and made some very poor decisions. And also lied too many times.
Maybe I am nasty, but why should I not be?
I hate him so much as a politican, I never met him, so I dont know him, and if you are wondering, I am not glad he is dead.

I have no idea what you mean, just because he was elected??? I didnt vote for him by the way incase you were wondering...

What scrutiny? What are you talking about?

And your post just proves my point, that no negative words can be spoken about a dead irish person.

alaimacerc

Skid X wrote: »

This diversion to Brian Lenihan Senior's Presidential campaign is bit unneccesary

I think they were trying to do a "parallel narratives" thing. I think that was handled rather clumsily.

Not a bad programme in general. Usual talking heads suspects, but by and large good ones.

FrStone

I would love to say that I'm shocked with Joe Higgins comment at the end, but what else could I have expected from that eejit.

Great documentary by RTE, really showed how selfless he was in his work for the Irish people. I'm glad they touched on his loyalty, it seems to be a trait that is common anymore.

MightyMandarin

Fudge You wrote: »

Lack of talent?
No, just because he was minister of finance, and made some very poor decisions. And also lied too many times.

Just out of curiosity, how do you think you would do if you were made Min. for Finance? Not very well I imagine, and that goes for myself too. This was the exact same for Lenihan, yet people love to forget this. He was a barrister with vast legal knowledge, but nothing of relevance to economics, finance etc. He was out of his depth, and he knew it, but who would you blame, the person who just wasn't educated enough for the role or the idiot who put him there?

He also acted on plenty of false information, and let's not forget very, very few Irish economists predicted the 2008 crash, so how the hell would a total novice to economics be able to realise the info he got was crap or that the crash was coming?

themadhair

It was hard to watch that and not feel a little revulsion at it. I thought he was a spoofer as Minister for Children, I had those suspicions confirmed when he was Minster for Justice and, holy shoite, was his spoofery put on display for the world when he was Minister for Finance.

The defining memory I have of Lenihan’s career was in the run up to the bailout announcement. There had been some sort of poll published that put Lenihan as being one of the most respected finance ministers in Europe, which was utterly bizarre and almost like an alternate reality. I remember his interviews where he was denying that Ireland would be getting a bailout. The chopper was in town and it seemed pretty obvious what was going down. And yet, he kept denying and deflecting – even though an agreement had already been negotiated. I vividly remember interviews of him flat out denying it shortly before the big announcement, and then we were treated to that sad pathetic spectacle of him and Cowen announcing that Ireland was, after all, getting a bailout.

It truly baffles me that a spoofer like this could be remembered for ‘loyalty’, ‘selflessness’ and whatever other superlative you want to throw his way. That f*****g w****r deliberately and wilfully fed spoonfulls of lies to the Irish people (which RTE aided and abetted mind), and when the whole charade finally had to come to an end as he joined spoofer eile Biffo at the bailout announcement we were treated to a shameful level of contempt, spoofery and b******t that disgraced both themselves and the very people they were supposed to representing. Browne and Halligan will never have an easier time making politicians look like gombeens as they did that day.

I’d never been as angered by such political spoofery before or since that f*****g embarrassment.

CatFromHue

Fudge You wrote: »

But they didnt even cover any over his budgets, nothing about the April budget 2009, and bringing in the USC in his last budget.
The bailout and the bank guarantee were barely even spoken about. He was the minister of finance during the period making major decisions that caused problems for a lot of people.

I can understand why they didn't go into the budgets but it did seem strange to not go any deeper into the bank guarantee as that is his legacy, which is what the show was meant to be about I thought and one of the reasons I tuned in.

---

Are the lies that he told the ones that there wasn't a problem or that we wouldn't be getting a bailout? If so can people who are so annoyed about them think about what would have happened if he'd told the truth?

Whatever about him being out of his depth he really wasn't helped by the people who were supposed to know, and be his advisors, either not telling him the truth (if I remember right Anglo just kept on getting worse and worse while the guys in charge kept saying this is as bad as it gets but probably knew it wasn't) or being also out of his depth.

themadhair

CatFromHue wrote: »

Are the lies that he told the ones that there wasn't a problem or that we wouldn't be getting a bailout?

I cannot speak for anyone else, but for me personally the answer is 'both'.

If so can people who are so annoyed about them think about what would have happened if he'd told the truth?

Let's imagine if Lenihan had been upfront about the bailout. Would it really have been such a disaster for people to have been informed? Seriously, what damage would have been done if he hadn't lied through his teeth about it?

It wasn't as if (at least for myself and those I discuss politics with) that the bailout was ultimately a surprise. One of the narratives that seems to have caught on is that Honohan (central bank honcho at the time) blew the whistle on all of it - but, and be honest now, how much of a surprise was it really? And yet Lenihan was lying, b*********g and spoofing throughout the whole thing.

alaimacerc

themadhair wrote: »

It truly baffles me that a spoofer like this could be remembered for ‘loyalty’, ‘selflessness’ and whatever other superlative you want to throw his way.

Loyalty and self-sacrifice are great, in the right place. But... to (and for)... Fianna Fail? Really? Narnia territory for me. "All the service thou hast done to Tash, I accept as service done to me."

Except for Tash read Haughey, Cowen, etc...

SaveOurLyric

Fudge You wrote: »

But they didnt even cover any over his budgets, nothing about the April budget 2009, and bringing in the USC in his last budget.
The bailout and the bank guarantee were barely even spoken about.

Yes. In what was generally a favourable portrait, its surprising that they didnt mention these. Probably the high points of his career, and ones for which he deserves great credit and gratitude for having the sense, courage, and long term vision for the greater good of Ireland to implement them. Despite the mud that would be slung by those not fully appreciating them.