22 Hours denial?

chases0102

Hi folks,

I know this issue has been done to death, and that there are similar threads on this on T&L, but I am in desperate need for some advice.

I have completed 2 academic years covering for a career break in an ETB school. The teacher that I was covering for applied for a third year, but was subsequently rejected. I am privy to this information from a colleague of mine within the staff room. I do not know what grounds he was denied the third year.

I have been on full, 22 hours for those two years.

The ETB, in May, advertised for '[one of my subject] and another subject', for a list of 7 schools within the ETB. The school that I am currently in was one of the 7 schools.

Interviews for this position took place in the third week of May. I did the interview. Two colleagues of mine, who did not have two years completed, received rejection letters from the ETB last Thursday week. I received no such letter, so thought something may be brewing, either in the school that i have taught in for the last two years, or somewhere else within the ETB.

Today, 15th June, I received a call that I have been offered 16 hours in a school that is 81km away from my current school (and 90 from my place of residence).

What I wish to seek advice on is the following:

Am I being denied a right to 22 hours within the scheme?

Does the 81km distance fall outside the 30 mile radius that is indicated as a maximum distance of redployment/transfer as specified in Circular 24/15?

Does the deadline of the end of May for informing teachers about transfers (again, as specified in Circular 24/15) apply to me?

Having talked to an ex-colleague of mine who is fairly au fait with Union directives, he believes the ETB are 1) denying me my entitled 22 hours, 2) breaching the Circular's transfer/redeployment criteria and 3) attempting to strong-arm me in taking a role that seems to very much suit them, and not me.

Again, I must apologise if this has been done ad nauseam on here. I also know that with the new Ward Report now in place that there is probably very little precedence in this area, so my queries may be difficult to bring answers. I am just wondering has anyone experienced a similar situation, and how they may have approached it.

I am ringing the Union first thing tomorrow morning to get their take on it.

Thanks for reading, and I would be much obliged for any advice on the above.

rainbowtrout

I don't understand the issue, I don't think you have a case at all.

You have completed two years in a school (on hours that are not your own, but we'll leave that out for the moment). To be entitled to a CID under the latest circular you have to begin a third contract with the school/ETB. You haven't done that yet and assuming that your contracts were straightforward one year 1st September - 31 August contracts for 22 hours, you will not be beginning year 3 until the start of the coming academic year. So no CID entitlement - yet.

The teacher who you were covering for is returning, so there is no longer a job for you at that school. Therefore as it stands I would be looking at that at as a termination of your employment with the ETB.

The job you have subsequently been offered is 81km from school/90 km from home. Well they can offer you a job wherever you want, you don't have to take it, it's only under a redeployment scheme that the job has to be within 50km of your current school.

As you do not hold a CID within your ETB currently I would say that you are not subject to being part of the transfer scheme as it has no bearing on this job offer.




Having said all of that, if you choose to take this job, you will be beginning your third consecutive contract with the ETB and your CID is determined by the hours you had in your second year, so maybe you would have a case for 22 hours based on that. But you will have to begin the job first.


Probably not what you want to hear, but I think in this case the ETB are probably within their rights.


Questions:

1. You describe your hours as your 'entitled 22 hours'. Why? It's not your job and you don't have a CID as the teacher is returning.
2. Regarding the breach of transfer criteria. Again, why?
3. Strong arming you into taking a position that suits them and not you. You applied for a job, they've offered you the job, your issue seems to be with the hours you are offered in the contract. I don't understand why you describe it as strong arming you, you don't have to accept the job.

chases0102

rainbowtrout, thanks a million for your detailed response.

Forgive my obvious lack of knowledge on the issue - as I said, I had just been speaking with someone who was fairly confident that the issues I raised above were legitimate - perhaps not, as you have outlined.

As you say yourself, the 22 hours I had in my second year - I thought that I would have had a case for 22 hours of a job within the ETB, and not the 16 offered. That was the crux of my query. The transfer/redeployment issue is, as you say, a non runner.

Apologies if the post was ill-informed. I had briefly scanned the Circular and was eager for some advice/knowledge. So that is much appreciated.

rainbowtrout

The key thing with CIDs is that you have to begin the following academic year to be entitled to one, i.e. if you have worked 2 consecutive years, you have to work 2 years and 1 day to have surpassed the two year requirement and gain your entitlement.

It would be no harm to contact the union for advice anyway. Whether you take the job offered or not is down to your personal circumstances, if you did take the 16 hour contract, you would be in a far stronger position to argue the case for a 22 hour contract in September, this is a question I would put to the union if you do contact them.

mirrorwall14

My read is exactly the same as rainbowtrout, you haven't been offered a third contract in the school so you have no entitlement there (and not because the hours were magically given to someone else, they are legitimately gone back to the original teacher).

You may have a case for 22hr CID if you are staying within the same ETB on the basis that it will be your third contract with the ETB and usually the hours are based on the previous years contract. However in this case I'm not sure as you are switching schools.

rainbowtrout

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

My read is exactly the same as rainbowtrout, you haven't been offered a third contract in the school so you have no entitlement there (and not because the hours were magically given to someone else, they are legitimately gone back to the original teacher).

You may have a case for 22hr CID if you are staying within the same ETB on the basis that it will be your third contract with the ETB and usually the hours are based on the previous years contract. However in this case I'm not sure as you are switching schools.

To my mind, the OP should be entitled to a CID as they are going into their third year. The ETB is the employer and a teacher is employed by the ETB and not the school. However, I wouldn't be too surprised if the ETB tried to wriggle out of awarding the CID.

A teacher in my school applied for transfer this year and did not get it. My ETB have subsequently advertised her subject, in a long list of subjects. She rang HR and asked them about her subject being advertised and what would happen if she went for one of those jobs, and also why she wasn't offered that job as a transfer. She was fobbed off on the transfer question, she was told that she was free to apply for the jobs if she wanted, but if she applied and was successful, that she would lose her CID because she was starting a new contract in a new school, even though it's within our own ETB. Honestly, I think they are pulling a fast one and playing on the fact that some teachers are not fully familar with employment rights.

Hazelnut Button

rainbowtrout wrote: »

The key thing with CIDs is that you have to begin the following academic year to be entitled to one, i.e. if you have worked 2 consecutive years, you have to work 2 years and 1 day to have surpassed the two year requirement and gain your entitlement.

Just out of curiosity, if you were in year 2 and went on maternity leave that resulted in you not being due back to school until say October of year 3, where would that leave you in terms of securing your Cid?

rainbowtrout

Hazelnut Button wrote: »

Just out of curiosity, if you were in year 2 and went on maternity leave that resulted in you not being due back to school until say October of year 3, where would that leave you in terms of securing your Cid?

Same as everyone else. If you are back for year 3, you get your CID, if your job is terminated, you will get your maternity benefit until it runs out but as of September you are unemployed.

Hazelnut Button

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Same as everyone else. If you are back for year 3, you get your CID, if your job is terminated, you will get your maternity benefit until it runs out but as of September you are unemployed.

Yikes! Thanks for clarification of that. With the new ward report are you not pretty much guaranteed you'll be back in year 3 unless there are objective grounds written into your contract for year 2? Or am I way off the mark here?

rainbowtrout

Hazelnut Button wrote: »

Yikes! Thanks for clarification of that. With the new ward report are you not pretty much guaranteed you'll be back in year 3 unless there are objective grounds written into your contract for year 2? Or am I way off the mark here?

No, in most cases teachers should be retained for year 3 and get their CID, but say in the case where the allocation for a school changed dramatically (due to a large fall in numbers in the school) then theoretically a teacher could be let go at the end of the two years, if all the other teachers were permanent/ was not the only teacher of their subject(s) etc. I saw it happen in my school a few years back where a teacher was let go after 4 years with the VEC, when 4 years was the requirement for a CID.

chases0102

Would it be unprecedented for different ETBs around the country to interpret the new rules and regulations around CIDs differently?

The reason I ask, is because a friend of mine, who is in the exact same position as I am, has been told that his CID is being sent out next week.

rainbowtrout

chases0102 wrote: »

Would it be unprecedented for different ETBs around the country to interpret the new rules and regulations around CIDs differently?

The reason I ask, is because a friend of mine, who is in the exact same position as I am, has been told that his CID is being sent out next week.

No. A CID can be awarded at any time during your tenure in a school. You can be awarded a CID the first day you walk in the door. However most ETBs choose to wait to award them until they legally have to to prevent themselves getting stuck with a whole load of permanent teachers on the payroll if cuts come in. So the other ETB is being proactive by awarding it before the maxmim time has been completed. Your ETB is following directives to the letter of the law and won't award one until they legally have to

chases0102

Thanks rainbowtrout