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looking to break into fighting games

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  • 15-06-2015 1:06pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 730 ✭✭✭


    I used to play fighting games back in the days of street fighter 2 and was pretty proud of myself when I could manage to beat the game in one credit (it was usually 50/50).

    As an old school gamer I'm a bit confused about some of the terms I'm reading about when doing some research on the street fighter 4 series of games. Things like 'tier level " "balancing" and "overpowered characters".

    Before you could pick any character and you had an equal chance of beating the game once you mastered the moves, but it seems nowadays that its not the case.

    I recently bought street fighter 3rd strike on the psn and for some reason I can't play it the same as I could, let's say, Zero 2 (which I have on the Saturn), there's parrying, and mad combos which I can't seem to get my head around.

    I would like to get some version of SF4 and try to get into some of the casual gaming nights that I've seen mentioned in this forum, but I'm not sure (a) which version to get and (b) if someone with no experience playing those games would be welcome at those casual nights.

    Has anyone and hints, tips or advice they could give me?

    Cheers.


Comments

  • Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 25,868 Mod ✭✭✭✭Doctor DooM


    Ok, well first you have to decide what you want from fighting games :)

    There's no wrong way to play them. If you enjoy them, then you're doing what's right for you.

    HOWEVER... most of us here are competitive fighting game players. In general, we’re the type of people who like really learning about the games, getting into how the mechanics of how they really work, occasionally going to or watching tournaments, and, in general, just really maximising the enjoyment you can get out of them. On average competitive gamers would rarely play the AI as it’s not much fun compared to pitting yourself against another human.
    Usually, the most competitively played Street Fighter is the last released one. Currently, it is Ultra Street Fighter 4- generally played on the xbox 360 (although PC or ps4 can run mostly fine too. The ps3 version is a teeny bit slower).
    In general, the advice given to people who want to learn is to start with Ryu or Guile. They’re two of the characters that rely most on the fundamentals of Street Fighter in 4 and don’t require a huge amount of execution in order to do so. Personally I would actually say Ryu is better to learn first as he just has a bit more of everything than Guile.

    If you like we could attach some guides etc about the first things you should learn about, but the basic toolbox of fighting game play consists of:
    Footsies- trying to control your opponent when both characters are standing by throwing moves out, and moving about
    Zoning- Using projectiles to control your opponent from further longer ranges
    Anti airing- stopping your opponent from jumping at you
    Wake up game: Wheat happens when you get knocked down (and what to do when you knock someone down). Related to this is learning how to block well.

    This isn’t an exhaustive list, but you’ll notice the absence of combos. I’ve done that deliberately: I constantly run into players online who’ve clearly spent hundreds of hours learning a huge combo they get to do exactly once on me, after which I never let them have the same situation again because they lacked all the really important stuff I mentioned above.
    Mostly, people meet up on Wednesdays and Saturdays in the Xtreme gaming centre on Liffey Street. Keep an eye on this forum for the threads. Make sure to introduce yourself and ask for games, it can be awkward putting yourself out but if you don’t people will just keep playing without including you, maybe not even realising you’re there for SF!
    Feel free to ask questions 


  • Moderators Posts: 8,678 ✭✭✭D4RK ONION


    First off, welcome to the forum! To allay your fears off the bat, we're always open and welcome to new players, so thanks for posting :)

    So, to begin with, I wouldn't worry about tiers, balancing or over-powered characters too much when you're starting out. All those terms refer to how "strong" or "weak" a character is. For instance, in SF3 Third Strike (usually we just call it 3S), Sean is quite a bad character and Yun is considered one of the best in that game. However these things are not so important when you're starting out, so again, don't worry about them.

    As for parrying and combos and such, every fighting game since SF2 had those, you maybe just didn't know it at the time. Street Fighter Zero 2 (Alpha 2) has some pretty mad combos, in fact.


    If you're going to buy Street Fighter 4 (and I suggest you do), make sure it's Ultra Street Fighter 4. You'll probably see it pop up as a daily deal in the current steam sale, so if you've got a half decent PC, you might be able to pick it up for a few euro.

    Finally, YES! YES! You are welcome at any and all Irish Fighting Game Community (IFGC) events! The best way to learn is to show up and play with someone who's better than you. If you let me know where you're based, I'll let you know what's the best event for you to show up.

    EDIT: Damn you Doom, you beat me to it!


  • Moderators Posts: 5,558 ✭✭✭Azza


    Hygro wrote: »
    I used to play fighting games back in the days of street fighter 2 and was pretty proud of myself when I could manage to beat the game in one credit (it was usually 50/50).

    As an old school gamer I'm a bit confused about some of the terms I'm reading about when doing some research on the street fighter 4 series of games. Things like 'tier level " "balancing" and "overpowered characters".

    Before you could pick any character and you had an equal chance of beating the game once you mastered the moves, but it seems nowadays that its not the case.

    I recently bought street fighter 3rd strike on the psn and for some reason I can't play it the same as I could, let's say, Zero 2 (which I have on the Saturn), there's parrying, and mad combos which I can't seem to get my head around.

    I would like to get some version of SF4 and try to get into some of the casual gaming nights that I've seen mentioned in this forum, but I'm not sure (a) which version to get and (b) if someone with no experience playing those games would be welcome at those casual nights.

    Has anyone and hints, tips or advice they could give me?

    Cheers.

    There was different version of SF2 back in the day. Some where easy to beat in single player and some where extremely difficult like Super Turbo. But even the difficult games require a different skill set from multiplayer and mastering the single player game will not really prepare your for multiplayer.

    Old games had tier lists and character balancing isses you just wheren't aware of them, if your playing casually for the the laugh with your mates and had no understanding of the underlining mechanics they are completely irrelevant. They only apply to the highest levels of skill. If your a beginner they will have no affect and should not be used as an excuse for losing. It takes a long time to get to that level. In USF4 some characters can be considered the best but no character in USF4 is overpowered.

    Everyone is welcome to casuals and many will be happy to offer advice. It can be tough trying to catch up with people who have years of playing time under there belt but USF4 is pretty rewarding game if you stick with.

    SF5 is out March next year and the great thing about that is everyone will be reset back to a level playing field in terms of experience.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,966 ✭✭✭ayjayirl


    Wow.... 3 mods. I dare not troll. :p

    Welcome. As above, except Azza. Get Ultra SF4 and get stuck in. There is a fair few on xbl with the list of player names in the thread stickied at the top of the forum. http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056452989 Just add people with a pm and play online for a bit. This is just to getting yourself a feel for playing other players rather than AI. It can also serve as an intro to people who play but I'd echo the guys above about coming to the events.

    If you are on facebook there is a group there you can join that we also use to promote events and such. https://www.facebook.com/groups/irishfgc/ Ask to add and we can add.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,006 ✭✭✭Ramza


    Pick up Ultra Street Fighter 4. It's the current and most up to date iteration everyone plays on. The most active communities are Xbox and PC, but you should be able to find players on PS3 no problem.

    For now, don't worry about the jargon, tier lists, game balance and the like, focus on starting from the ground up and learning along the way. Trying to take on too much at once will impair your learning and likely make you lose interest. Just take it slow for now. Like DooM said, the goal of playing SF is to have fun.

    I also echo what DooM said regarding character choice ; Ryu and Guile are both simple characters at the most basic level which will teach you all the fundamentals of the game, while still being solid characters in their own right. I recommending picking one of them and sticking with it for a while until you get comfortable with the game mechanics.

    There are also other helpful communities and resources on the internet for new players to avail of. The Street Fighter sub on reddit (www.reddit.com/r/streetfighter) is a helpful message board with tonnes of links for new players, newbie lobbies, and daily questions threads for people looking to learn the game. Apart from that, YouTube has tonnes of tutorials to help new players get to grips with the game, there is lots of resources and information out there.

    Regarding offline matches, the guys usually meet up at the Xtreme Gaming Centre (XGC) on Liffy St. every Wed and Sat for casual sessions. I definitely encourage you to keep your eyes on this forum for when the weekly casual threads get posted. Everybody welcome, regardless of skill level. It's a relaxed environment where you can play with other people who will also be happy to help you if you're struggling.

    Edit : Looks like the thread for this week's Wednesday casuals just went up. You can check it out here if interested!


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  • Registered Users Posts: 730 ✭✭✭Hygro


    That's some great info there guys, thanks for all the reponses. Though I think it might be a long time before I get to start worrying about footsies and zoning ... and the only anti air I know about is from my time playing Xmen vs SF, or MvC on the Saturn.

    I agree, you learn from from playing against other people than you do playing against the AI. I always found that even watching other people play against the AI would give you the basics of what to do against each opponent, though when it came down to it and you played against other people, who had that player vs player experience, you'd get your ass handed to you because you ran out of offensive ideas.

    The idea of checking out the youtube videos seems like the right direction to take, though I'm sure it'd be easier to ask a person how or why they did a move at a certain time, as opposed to trying to find that answer somewhere in the internet.

    I own a PS3, so I am going to download Ultra IV from the PSN Store tonight and give it a go tomorrow and see how I get on.

    I'm based on the Northside of Dublin, so I'm only a 10 minute drive from the XGC place in Liffey Street.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,006 ✭✭✭Ramza


    Hygro wrote: »
    I'm sure it'd be easier to ask a person how or why they did a move at a certain time, as opposed to trying to find that answer somewhere in the internet.

    This is very true, and in fact if you do start to frequent offline sessions, I encourage you to do this ; ask people why they did certain things at certain times. During casuals people would be more than willing to break stuff down for you and give help or analysis.


  • Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 25,868 Mod ✭✭✭✭Doctor DooM


    Hygro wrote: »
    That's some great info there guys, thanks for all the reponses. Though I think it might be a long time before I get to start worrying about footsies and zoning ... and the only anti air I know about is from my time playing Xmen vs SF, or MvC on the Saturn.

    I agree, you learn from from playing against other people than you do playing against the AI. I always found that even watching other people play against the AI would give you the basics of what to do against each opponent, though when it came down to it and you played against other people, who had that player vs player experience, you'd get your ass handed to you because you ran out of offensive ideas.

    The idea of checking out the youtube videos seems like the right direction to take, though I'm sure it'd be easier to ask a person how or why they did a move at a certain time, as opposed to trying to find that answer somewhere in the internet.

    I own a PS3, so I am going to download Ultra IV from the PSN Store tonight and give it a go tomorrow and see how I get on.

    I'm based on the Northside of Dublin, so I'm only a 10 minute drive from the XGC place in Liffey Street.

    Sick Rolento, and Guile players have emerged from the Northside of Dublin :P


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,966 ✭✭✭ayjayirl


    Sick Rolento, and Guile players have emerged from the Northside of Dublin :P

    both frauds :p


  • Registered Users Posts: 730 ✭✭✭Hygro


    Ok, I am now an Ultra Street Fighter IV (PS3) player, admittedly not a very good one...

    I think for the time being I'll just play the AI and do some research on the game via youtube/reddit etc and see how far I can progress before I try to join any of the casual nights. I don't plan on going to the casual night until I can at least beat the game on a regular basis, at least then I will have (or at least should have) most of the basics down.

    I know that progression will be a lot quicker if I went along to the casual nights sooner, rather than later, but I think I'd be more of a burden to other people than a help to myself.

    I'm using a Namco PS1 Stick with an adaptor and it controls great, well better than the PS3 pad.


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  • Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 25,868 Mod ✭✭✭✭Doctor DooM


    Honestly man, I'd get playing real people (at very least, online) as soon as possible. It cannot be underestimated how different (and how much more fun) the game is against hoomans!

    Also don't worry about people not helping out at casuals, we were all new once. My primary worry when I'm playing a new guy is actually turning them off by beating them too hard. lol


  • Moderators Posts: 5,558 ✭✭✭Azza


    You don't learn the game at all by playing single player. Playing against the A.I is about pattern recognition. You can just sit back and let the A.I do something unsafe and punish it on block then repeat the process. The A.I has no concept of spacing, zoning, mix ups etc.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,239 ✭✭✭UberPrinny_Baal


    Hygro wrote: »
    I think for the time being I'll just play the AI ... I don't plan on going to the casual night until I can at least beat the game on a regular basis, at least then I will have (or at least should have) most of the basics down.

    To try and explain what the other guys are saying, the skills you acquire in SF4 single player and the ones you need to play humans have no correlation.

    For example: if you pick Zangief in the one player arcade mode, you can beat the entire game on any difficulty by only pressing the "All three punches" button (which activates his lariat) and nothing else. The cpu can't handle it. This obviously won't work against humans.

    The REAL reason though the guys are saying there's no point in playing the single player content is one simple reason: Fighting games in general, and Street Fighter specifically have no tutorials that actually teach you how to play the game.

    Capcom in my opinion are at the forefront of the industry at making amazing games with incredible depth that they have no capacity or ability to explain to players.

    There have been lots of grass roots efforts by players to try and help new players with pdf guides and video tutorials (I even tried making one). But ultimately it's hard to connect new players to information that exclusively exists OUTSIDE of the game.

    The ONLY 2D game I have ever seen that actually does explain how to play, concepts, terminology and individual character strategies at all is a weird outlier called Skullgirls; it actually explains them really really well.

    Co-incidentally, the game is on sale on steam right now for €3.50

    http://store.steampowered.com/app/245170/?snr=1_7_7_151_150_1

    I just booted it up and had a look there. The lessons of Chapter 2 of the tutorial are titled as followed:
    1. Defending against mix ups (makes you block progressively harder high-low mix ups)
    2. Punishing (gets you to punish an unsafe CPU move, then block a mix up while waiting to punish an unsafe move)
    3. Hit confirmation (teachs you to hit a series of buttons, and end in a different attack based on whether the cpu blocks or gets hit)
    4. Mix-up offense (makes you do a jump -> low -> mid -> low or high on cpu)
    5. Throwing (teaches throws, tick-throws, throw teching, and watching for throws while in a mix up)

    That's all stuff you need to know in Street Fighter, and Skullgirls uses the same buttons, terms and mechanics for this entire section. The tutorial alone is definitely worth three-fiddy.

    I'm not suggesting you try to become competitively good at Skullgirls or play it outside the tutorial; but if you want to become good at fighting games by starting out in single player content, you can't do that in Street Fighter .


  • Registered Users Posts: 730 ✭✭✭Hygro


    Ok, I've played 2 online games of Street Fighter and lost both.

    I'm trying to upload the matches onto youtube to get you guys opinions, but just having some problems and error messages when I do.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 632 ✭✭✭Forest Demon


    Hygro wrote: »
    Ok, I've played 2 online games of Street Fighter and lost both.

    I'm trying to upload the matches onto youtube to get you guys opinions, but just having some problems and error messages when I do.


    I am no expert at SF but I am an old school player like you hoping to get into SFV when it arrives. I think it is best to get your first 100 (or 1000) online games out of the way first and try and find your feet. Maybe run through the tutorials and combo challenges in the game to get the basics.

    One tip for fighting games that I was given recently was not to jump in too much, learn to dash rather then jumping all the time. Learn what moves are safe and unsafe and get some very basic bread and butter combos. Fighting games are all about risk/reward and getting maximum damage against your opponent when he/she makes a mistake.

    Look at tournament games of the character you want to use and you will see people playing them properly. Don't worry about tier lists. Pick somebody that suits and that you have some success with although I have read more then once that ryu is a good character to start with in SF.

    Expect to lose a lot and don't lose heart. A lot of the fuggers still playing this game online are beasts. If you could beat them after a few games it would not be much of a game.


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