Nissan Leaf at 6000KM

blillis2000

Just said I would post this if it is of any use to anyone.

Why did I buy a Leaf?
I needed to change my existing car. Based on my calculations, financially the leaf was a good option compared to buying a good second hand or newer car (won’t discuss here, can send you on my calculations if interested). Most importantly, having done my research, I thought it would suit both my daily driving needs and driving style.

The Good
It’s a joy to drive. I still genuinely look forward to driving it. It accelerates really quickly off the mark and can more than comfortably hold its own on the road when needed. I can never see myself going back to petrol

The savings are huge: €120 for tax, 15% off insurance premium, €2.50 for 150 KM, next to no maintenance (I often think this is overlooked when discussing savings for this car, I put €1200 in one year into my supposedly reliable Skoda). Free public charging is also a plus. I recently did a 400 km trip for €2.50.

The range, an 80% charge meets my daily driving needs 80% of the time, when I need to do more, I plan.

The extent of the charging network, it is quite impressive all things considered

Reliability of the fast chargers

The ease of charging, really straightforward

The Bad
Waiting for another car to finish a charge at a charge station (would imagine this is worse in Dublin)

Reliability of the Type 2 chargers, two or three occasions I have arrived, they haven’t been working

The Ugly
Nothing to report as of yet

Driving Tips
The range you get is really down to you. The quicker you accelerate and the harder you break, the more power you use. The bubbles on the dashboard are your friend, try to accelerate at 2 instead of 3, 3 instead of 4, 4 instead of 5 and so on and coast to junctions and speed bumps instead of accelerating and breaking at the end. Driving between 85 to 100 km/H on national roads accelerating at two to three bubbles (and 4 up a hill) and coasting where possible to junctions, etc. I find I get 140 km to 150 km for a 100% charge. I am sure I could get more. This is much easier than it sounds.

I get about 120 to 140 km for a 100% charge when travelling 100 to 110 km on a motorway (slower going up long drags).

Ignore the range meter I think. I divide kilometers driven by battery percent used after about 20 km. Multiplying this by remaining battery gives me a very good estimate of range expected for the rest of the trip.

I drive in D mode as opposed to D Eco. I prefer the response of the car this way. If you learn to control the bubbles in D mode, I don’t see much of a difference to Eco. However, when I am in town, coasting to a stop, or going down a steep hill I switch to Eco to maximize regen.

Bluetooth and using the air fan without heat/air conditioning on seems to have next to impact on range (not sure the impact of air conditioning or heat as of yet)

The speed the fast charger will charge your car depends on the charger you are using I think. I would allow 30 minutes to get from say 20% to 80%.

I wouldn’t plan a journey on the basis that a fast charger will be available when you arrive. Reality is it might not be, so allow 30 minutes. Would imagine this will become more of a problem.

Buy a granny cable, its proven handy a couple of times

Conclusion
I wont be going back to petrol. However, it is not a car that will suit everyone. Would recommend talking to other people who have bought the car and taking a test drive before buying.

Hi billis and welcome to Boards !

What year is your leaf ?

I've 12,000 Kms on mine now since about the 20th january 15.

Love it and like yourself won't be going back to petrol/diesel ever again as my main car and only drive my partners diesel for the really odd long trips to save going over the PCP mileage.

And to say I hate driving a manual diesel is an understatement !

I agree with the standard street charge points, most of them are next to useless because they're either ICEd or broken and the ESB take forever to get them repaired.

I can't see support for the standard street chargers to continue for too long because most charging will be done at home and while out and about most people will use the DC fast chargers and the next Gen electrics from 2017 with 120-200 miles range will rely a lot less on the infrastructure and particularly the standard street points. So I can't see the need for them really.

I could probably get 140 odd Kms this time of year if I drive easy enough but I don't so I don't really care much about range unless I'm going on a longer trip.

Winter driving will have an impact because a cold battery can't hold as much charge and the heater, the air is more dense and wind.

The heater can use up to 4.5 Kw on initial warm up, I've no idea how much it uses on preheat but I bet it will use more because I don't think it uses the heat pump until the car is actually turned on. So it uses resistive heating which is much less efficient.

Once on the road and the heater warms up the heat pump does not use much power, at 19 degrees and 0-8 degrees outside I usually see about 800 watts that's not a lot.

The AC is pretty efficient but in Ireland you'll use it more to reduce humidity rather than heat so it's not going to consume a lot, again , pre cooling will have more of an impact so if it's warm I open the windows and drive for a min or two to cool off the interior.

And I also use the fan only without ac or heat when I don't need it. I find the auto ac pretty useless and find the car much warmer than it should be at the set temp so I have to use the ac manually.

blillis2000

Thanks for that info re the heating and A/C, understand it a little better now. I find the air fan with AC off nearly sufficient most of the time and have yet to use the heating .

Meant to say also that tyre air pressure has a noticeable on range. I try to keep it at the right level, I see up to a 10% decrease in range.

blillis2000

blillis2000 wrote: »

Thanks for that info re the heating and A/C, understand it a little better now. I find the air fan with AC off nearly sufficient most of the time and have yet to use the heating .

Meant to say also that tyre air pressure has a noticeable on range. I try to keep it at the right level, I see up to a 10% decrease in range.

I'm on 17 Inch wheels and I find 35 psi the max I can tolerate after this it gets too uncomfortable for my liking.

pwurple

blillis2000 wrote: »

However, when I am in town, coasting to a stop, or going down a steep hill I switch to Eco to maximize regen.

Just a note on this, it's B mode does regen, not Eco, or so I thought?

I drive in B mode pretty much all the time. Don't notice much difference in pick-up to D mode... very slight only.

pwurple

pwurple wrote: »

Just a note on this, it's B mode does regen, not Eco, or so I thought?

I drive in B mode pretty much all the time. Don't notice much difference in pick-up to D mode... very slight only.

B mode doesn't make a difference to the amount of energy you'll recapture, what it really shines is coming down really long hills/mountains because it allows strong regen in B mode meaning you don't have to press the brake pedal much and you control the strength of the regen via the throttle, gives you variable regen which I like , it's far better than regen on or off would make it annoying.

Using the brake pedal in ECO or D does not allow you to control the strength of the regen and B mode in Eco is downright annoying. I usually drive in D because it's a lot more fun and B when I'm in town or slower traffic because it allows me greater control over regen.

The brake pedal in D or Eco without B gives strong regen also but I noticed via leafspy that you have to press the brake harder for max regen so I feel that the friction brakes are used more with light braking in D or Eco than B.

It's nice to get as much back as you can but in reality it makes little difference D, Eco or B. But B has it's advantages, variable regen via the accelerator and you don't have to keep your foot on the brake going down a long hill and you don't need to use the brake pedal near as much but your brake lights don't come on when in B mode unless you press the brake pedal.

GinaI

Hi,how long does it take to charge Nissan Leaf?

GinaI

GinaI wrote: »

Hi,how long does it take to charge Nissan Leaf?

From empty to full with the 3.3 Kw charger about 7 hrs, usually less because it won't be empty when you plug in.

With the 6.6 Kw charger and 32 amp home charge point or from standard non public charge points 4 hrs to 100% from empty but again , you usually won't charge from 0%, the 6.6 Kw charger is really handy to have for using at public standard charge points.

The 30 Kwh Leaf will take about 1 hr more to charge than the 24 Kwh at 6.6 kw and 2 hrs at 3.3 Kw.

Charging to 95% takes a lot less , the last 5% takes longer due to the power being reduced as the battery gets full and to balance all the cells.

As batteries get larger and hold more energy, they'll take longer to charge but you'll get the same range for the same charge time.

You'll get roughly 34-45 Kms per hour charging at 6.6 Kw and half that at 3.3 KW.

You can charge at fast chargers , you'll get about 80-90 kms per 30 mins in the 24 Kwh and 100-110 in the 30 Kwh leaf.

Most people charge over night and even at 3.3 Kw you'll get a full charge over night on night rate electricity for about 110-130 kms in the 24 Kwh and 130-140 kms in the 30 Kwh.

who_ru

Going outside every night to plug in must be a chore, what if you forget? Plus doesn't the time night rate kicks in change from summer to winter, so you might have to wait up until 11pm or midnight to plug in if you want to take advantage of night rate or can you plug in anytime and set the charge time to coincide with night rate times?

mordeith

who_ru wrote: »

Going outside every night to plug in must be a chore, what if you forget? Plus doesn't the time night rate kicks in change from summer to winter, so you might have to wait up until 11pm or midnight to plug in if you want to take advantage of night rate or can you plug in anytime and set the charge time to coincide with night rate times?

Is literally less than a minute to plug it in did charging and yes you can set the charge timer in the car

NIMAN

Thanks to the OP, interesting reading for someone considering an EV/Leaf next time I change

An e-mail is sent if you forget to plug it in, really, it's no chore compared to going to a garage , pump petrol, pay etc absolutely no hassle at all.

You're just plugging in a cable no like u have to peddle a bicycle to charge it.

NIMAN

who_ru wrote: »

Going outside every night to plug in must be a chore, what if you forget? Plus doesn't the time night rate kicks in change from summer to winter, so you might have to wait up until 11pm or midnight to plug in if you want to take advantage of night rate or can you plug in anytime and set the charge time to coincide with night rate times?

Not having a dig at you here, but isn't this the sort of language that anti-EV people would use for something that, lets be honest, isn't really hassle if you look at it.

Is it any more hassle than stopping at a petrol station for 2 or 3 minutes (assuming there is no queue)? And at least charging an EV you don't leave with the smell of diesel on your hands!

I will own an EV one day, not quite sure when (in fact we all might) but surely it is a matter of parking it up beside your charging point, taking the cable off the wall, lifting a flap on the car and sticking it in. Hardly what I would call hassle, and definitely less hassle than filling an ICE with liquid fuel. and as for 'what if you forget', well I think if you were an EV owner you would very quickly get into the habit of always plugging it in.

Also, afaik, you can set the car remotely to charge at a specific time, so if the night rate time moves then you can set the car to start charging from then on? Perhaps an owner could confirm this?

jprboy

NIMAN wrote: »

Also, afaik, you can set the car remotely to charge at a specific time, so if the night rate time moves then you can set the car to start charging from then on? Perhaps an owner could confirm this?

I have the basic spec Leaf so can't connect to it remotely.

What I do is set the time I want the car to be fully charged by (7.00 am) and the car does the rest i.e. depending on how much charge is already in the battery it starts the charging based on the amount of time required to have it fully charged by 7.00 am

The car charges at 3.3 or 6.6 Kw depending on the charger you request at the time of ordering. It also depends on your home charge point power, i.e, 3.7 or 7 kw.

At 6.6 kw you will get 42 Kwh in the battery over Night rate or 24 Kwh at 3.3 Kw.

24 Kwh is enough for 160 kms at 15 kwh/100 kms not driving at about 80-100 Kph and 127 Kms driving hard 100-120-130 ish at 19 Kwh/100 kms efficiency.

42 Kwh is enough for 279 kms at 15 Kwh/100 kms and 220 kms at 19 Kwh/100 kms.

Range will be more or less, depending on weather , terrain etc.

If you have to run a few hours into peak rate electricity costs then it's no major deal, and by the way, you'd normally have 20-30% in the battery by the time you get to a charge point. You don't want to run too low....

A 60 Kwh new model Nissan Leaf is due in Q4 2017, deliveries probably early 2018. Range 320-380 kms estimated but you will not consume this in a day and can charge fully over several nights if necessary for that big trip.

Up to 380 kms range is pretty damn good from your own home charge point, get solar PV and hopefully a feed-in-tariff will be reintroduced soon, what excess you send to the grid you can buy back when needed.

DrPhilG

[Deleted User] wrote: »

A 60 Kwh new model Nissan Leaf is due in Q4 2017, deliveries probably early 2018.

They finally confirm that???

A 60 Kwh has been confirmed but no date, Leaf II has not been confirmed.

My best guess is that Leaf II will be revealed in Detroit in January and available to order Q4 2017.

KCross

[Deleted User] wrote: »

A 60 Kwh has been confirmed but no date, Leaf II has not been confirmed.

My best guess is that Leaf II will be revealed in Detroit in January and available to order Q4 2017.

Your best guess isn't really the same as:
"A 60 Kwh new model Nissan Leaf is due in Q4 2017..."

You should qualify your statements with "opinion" or "guess" , otherwise you are just misleading people.

KCross

KCross wrote: »

Your best guess isn't really the same as:
"A 60 Kwh new model Nissan Leaf is due in Q4 2017..."

You should qualify your statements with "opinion" or "guess" , otherwise you are just misleading people.

We'll see......

DrPhilG

[Deleted User] wrote: »

no

[Deleted User] wrote: »

guess

Edited out the fluff and just left the relevant bits of your post.

It would be nice if you stopped spoofing and quoting speculation like its fact.

Soarer

Or maybe ye need to stop taking everything some random guys on the internet says as gospel?

KCross

Soarer wrote: »

Or maybe ye need to stop taking everything some random guys on the internet says as gospel?

Huh? Who is ye?

It was obvious it wasnt gospel, thats why it was being called out as such.

Soarer

KCross wrote: »

Huh? Who is ye?

It was obvious it wasnt gospel, thats why it was being called out as such.

But if "ye" already know it's not gospel, why does Mad Lad have to specify it?

Who are these hopeless souls that "ye" feel obliged to protect them from the insane ramblings of Mad Lad?

KCross

Soarer wrote: »

But if "ye" already know it's not gospel, why does Mad Lad have to specify it?

Who are these hopeless souls that "ye" feel obliged to protect them from the insane ramblings of Mad Lad?

Not you, obviously!

Soarer

No.

Because it's an internet forum.

KCross

Soarer wrote: »

No.

Because it's an internet forum.

Exactly. Read between the lines! :rolleyes:

DrPhilG

Not sure what the issue is.

If someone is spouting absolute nonsense, I will most likely pull it up as being absolute nonsense.

He is entitled to spout such nonsense and I am entitled to contradict it.

Funny lads, easy upset.

If ye don't like what I type, simply choose a different thread and don't tell me what I can, should or shouldn't type, thanks.

I give opinions and you either can like them or not.

And a new Leaf is due in 2017, based on the model life cycle of any car, I didn't say anywhere that Leaf II is "coming" get it ?

DrPhilG

[Deleted User] wrote: »

If ye don't like what I type, simply choose a different thread and don't tell me what I can, should or shouldn't type, thanks.

You don't see the irony of you telling me what to do by instructing me not to tell you what to do?

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I give opinions and you either can like them or not

You're not just giving opinions though, are you. You are making statements like the one below. Not just saying that a new model is coming, but specifying that a 60kwh Leaf is due at the end of next year.

[Deleted User] wrote: »

A 60 Kwh new model Nissan Leaf is due in Q4 2017

Thats not you offering an opinion. That is you making a statement.

A false statement.

AKA, talking absolute bollocks.

Nobody is upset here. You're just a bit ratty because you've been called out for spoofing.

BoatMad

who_ru wrote: »

Going outside every night to plug in must be a chore, what if you forget? Plus doesn't the time night rate kicks in change from summer to winter, so you might have to wait up until 11pm or midnight to plug in if you want to take advantage of night rate or can you plug in anytime and set the charge time to coincide with night rate times?

timer in the car set to 10 mines past midnight ( Leaf has internet controlled clock ) , this works irrespective of summer or winter night rates

we simply plug in every evening , irrespective, the car flashes three LEDs in sequence to let you know its ready and on-time, plug in takes about 30 secs and is never forgotten because its a every day requirement,

very simple and error proof, in 7 months we have never forgotten

Wifey just loves the fact that every morning, theres your car, all chirpy , charged up , and ready to go for another day , NO time spent in filling stations. ( and now thats its autumn , climate timer is running as well, with cabin preheating = bliss

( imagine driving all week and never having to go near a petrol station , nasty places petrol stations, queues, riffraff and people taking loads of cash off you all the time )

really its just better all the way around

BoatMad

You're not just giving opinions though, are you. You are making statements like the one below. Not just saying that a new model is coming, but specifying that a 60kwh Leaf is due at the end of next year.

The Gen2 Leaf due in 2018 will be 48kwh, I have been told this by Nissan Ireland , A 60 Kwh is planned to follow soon ( 1-2 years thereafter , but any date isn't known

NOTE Ev to be released next year/2018 as well.

Brexit s a major issue and spanner in the works

gooner99

BoatMad wrote: »

The Gen2 Leaf due in 2018 will be 48kwh, I have been told this by Nissan Ireland , A 60 Kwh is planned to follow soon ( 1-2 years thereafter , but any date isn't known

NOTE Ev to be released next year/2018 as well.

Brett is a major issue and spanner in the works

Isn't the nissan note being phased out in europe when the new micra get released?

BoatMad

BoatMad wrote: »

The Gen2 Leaf due in 2018 will be 48kwh, I have been told this by Nissan Ireland , A 60 Kwh is planned to follow soon ( 1-2 years thereafter , but any date isn't known

NOTE Ev to be released next year/2018 as well.

Brexit s a major issue and spanner in the works

I'd say if that were true then that would be news in the U.S, they'd be the first to know anything like this. No rumour of a 48 kwh, only thing officially confirmed by Nissan is a 60 Kwh, that is the battery itself.

grogi

Deleted User wrote: »

I'd say if that were true then that would be news in the U.S, they'd be the first to know anything like this. No rumour of a 48 kwh, only thing officially confirmed by Nissan is a 60 Kwh, that is the battery itself.

AFAIK Nissan confirmed 60kWh battery, but not the release date of it - communicated by Kazuo Yajima.

In fairness a release like that is worth absolutely nothing - we all know bigger batteries are coming, sooner or later, but they are. Nothing new here...

Yes a 60 Kwh was confirmed not a 48 Kwh.

BoatMad

Deleted User wrote: »

Yes a 60 Kwh was confirmed not a 48 Kwh.

all that has been confirmed is there will be a 60 kwh battery ( " its coming", said Yakima) NO announcement has been made by Nissan as to the exact spec of Gen2 leaf

however type Nissan Leaf 48 Kwh into google !!!!!

I have it on good authority that the Gen2 Leaf will be 48 kwh on launch , There will be no battery upgrade in Europe within the existing body design ( which isn't surprising )

I would expect that Gen2 Leaf will have battery cooling at the very least

You need to stop engaging in wishful thinking.

That 60 Kwh battery demonstrated by Nissan was an AESC battery, since Nissan announced they're to sell their share in this and get out of battery manufacturing then it's unlikely to have this battery demonstrated and it wasn't liquid cooled either, I doubt they'll make this mistake twice.

LG already have a 60 Kwh and this is most likely what Leaf II will use. Though my crystal ball isn't so clear lol.

This could take a few years to sell off their shares in AESC so Leaf II could have any kind of battery.

BoatMad

Deleted User wrote: »

That 60 Kwh battery demonstrated by Nissan was an AESC battery, since Nissan announced they're to sell their share in this and get out of battery manufacturing then it's unlikely to have this battery demonstrated and it wasn't liquid cooled either, I doubt they'll make this mistake twice.

LG already have a 60 Kwh and this is most likely what Leaf II will use. Though my crystal ball isn't so clear lol.

This could take a few years to sell off their shares in AESC so Leaf II could have any kind of battery.

err, you've just scuppered your own 60Kwh argument and I agree with everything you say

will their be a 60kwh Leaf, must likely as competitive pressure will demand it and Id say many are watching for Model 3 pricing to make specific versions to compete on price points

but again I have it on good authority that Leaf Gen2 , will be 48 kwh on release for MY2018 ( MY 2018 is technically from july of 2017)

I don't know I "scuppered" my own 60 Kwh argument ? 60 Kwh is 60 Kwh wherever it comes from. This was before they announced plans to sell their share in AESC and it could turn out that they buy the 60 Kwh from AESC anyway or they won't have sold their shares in AESC yet or they will use a battery from LG, As I said, my crystal ball is a bit cloudy.

It would be foolish of Nissan not to release a 60 Kwh due to competition from the Bolt, it will make the Leaf a hard sell especially when the Bolt has 200 HP, though if the Leaf has faster AC and DC charging that could temps buyers away from the Bolt provided the infrastructure catches up . As I said, Its unlikely Nissan will install a much more powerful motor in the Leaf, it might have a small power increase to compensate for any extra weight.

I expect if a 48 kwh was in sights then this would be on much more sources on the internet.

Nissan have hinted of multiple battery options and I think this makes a lot of sense and so a 48 Kwh is possible, however it could effect resale vales on the lower Kwh cars. They'd want to get costs down.

I think they should rebrand the Leaf and sell it a lot cheaper, the cost of these cars has to drop fast. One reason people won't buy Zoe in Ireland, most people see it as a very expensive Clio, most Clio's are petrol in Ireland costing 15K. This is what they need to do, make an ev and sell it at 15K.

BoatMad

I think they should rebrand the Leaf and sell it a lot cheaper

The design is nearly 6 years old. I suspect thats why the Note EV is being considered. Gen2 Leaf may move upwards in its price point especially with higher Kwh battery options

BoatMad

BoatMad wrote: »

The design is nearly 6 years old. I suspect thats why the Note EV is being considered. Gen2 Leaf may move upwards in its price point especially with higher Kwh battery options

It's almost certain a 60 Kwh Gen 2 Leaf will be more expensive this is the reason they should have multiple battery Kwh options with real range estimates not NEDC estimates.

Rebranding the Leaf is a good idea, it would need a bit of a redesign but would probably guarantee they get their money back on it.

I think they're making a plug in Note not a battery only version, they're making a EV Micra and plug-in.

Nissan did say they plan to have an EV option for their entire fleet in 2020, hopefully this included commercials. There needs to be larger EV's.

An EV Xtrail with 300-400 Hp, 4WD would be sweet !

BoatMad

personally Id love to see a Qashqai EV !

The Qashqai is a bit small really, it's just a taller hatch.

I don't why they haven't plans to release a Qashqai or Xtrail EV, seems like an obvious thing to do to me anything but a Note or Micra, chances are at least in Ireland people will buy the petrol versions over the EV.

I'm giving serious thought to getting an EV, my diesel Skoda has broken down too many times and I've a short enough commute through traffic which doesn't suit at all.

My understanding is there's an SEAI grant for EVs. Is that correct? Does the price quoted on the Nissan website include the grant? I didn't really see it mentioned on there.

grogi

Jeffrey Plain Gymnast wrote: »

My understanding is there's an SEAI grant for EVs. Is that correct? Does the price quoted on the Nissan website include the grant? I didn't really see it mentioned on there.

Yes it does.

Prices effective from January 2016. Pricing includes Government grant for private buyer of €5,000 - RRP quoted includes the 24kWh battery as standard and exclude the Dealer Delivery Charges and Related Fees. Metallic Paint is an optional extra. Please contact your local retailer for further information.

Realistically add 1000 to the price listed to get the final retail price, pre scrappage credit.

grogi

grogi wrote: »

Yes it does.

Alright thanks. Was obviously hoping it didn't, but sure if something seems to good to be true and all that.

Jeffrey Plain Gymnast

Jeffrey Plain Gymnast wrote: »

Alright thanks. Was obviously hoping it didn't, but sure if something seems to good to be true and all that.

There are good deals on 2nd hand Leafs if new is out of budget, but if in budget the leaf compares well on price with similar class diesels.

BoatMad

If you have a small commute , a new EV makes no sense. In that regards a new petrol would have a far lower TCO. A new EV makes financial sense if you have a daily commute close to the round trip ability of the car or at least a substantial proportion of the range. ThAt way the lower running costs of the EV come into play.

A 2nd hand EV might make far better sense especially since range will not be an issue

Of course there are many reasons to own an EV besde financials