Canada qualification recognition discussion

ArnieSilvia

When looking for jobs in Canada I found that there is a lot of opportunities, that don't seem to pop up in Ireland in my fields of interest.

All of that would be great if I didn't do more research and found out that apparently Canadians allow degree educated immigrants in, but are not necessarily keen on giving them jobs that would match their qualifications. Part of that could be high expectations and pride/dignity of newcomers too.

This doesn't seem to apply to blue-collar jobs and tradesmen and seems like good few Irish are doing well in professional jobs too.

I'd like to start discussion here and see what are your views on it.

The barriers that were mentioned:
- poor English (no excuse here I think, without English your qualifications are meaningless)
- "no Canadian experience" - you might have lots of qualifications and years of experience but you'd be rejected on this alone
- visa status (employers not keen on giving the job and investing in you if your residency is not permanent)
- non-recognition of qualifications (doctors, pharmacists, engineers, trades etc)

Seems to me that the only way to get what you want is to be massively underpaid, struggle for few years and then get what you're really worth. This means that you'd be young and have no family, have low cost of living, share house etc.

I saw many reports of people who left their well paying, professional jobs in their home countries saying that it was a huge mistake to go to Canada as they struggle doing menial, sometimes multiple jobs because they can't climb on the ladder. They can't afford to lose their jobs either and do courses to bring them up to spec because often they have families and have to provide for them. Therefore, you hear stories of a German mechanical engineer being a truck driver for last 15 years who sent out 2000 applications that got him nowhere.

It is claimed that this problem with getting a job in field of expertise is so difficult that people from different ethnic backgrounds ghetto themselves and do the jobs that certain group do - taxi drivers, cleaners, security etc. Certainly this seems to be the case in Toronto - 500000 Indians in one location, 400000 Mexicans in another causing another trouble of closed society with poor English that it's even harder to get out this damned circle.

Some of that resemble local (Irish) situation from the past with Italian immigrants who set up Italian chippers to get them going but not many of these Italians got any further than that.

Now to be fair to Canada, I faced most of these obstacles here in Ireland and I suppose these would be applicable everywhere else as when emigrating you're entering different system. Your experience, qualifications and education might not be compatible with local job market. Add cultural differences and there's a problem.

Now what hit me was reports that same people who struggled for years (we're talking 5 years of trying) to get decent jobs in Canada got well paying jobs in their field in USA straight away ???

Background: I'm 35, with degree in Business (Manufacturing Operations Management) was considering moving to Canada (Calgary, AB) with wife and two kids (12,10), I was a business development manager and run my own business in my home country. I have extensive manufacturing experience in many areas (from semi-heavy industry to biotech) plus extensive knowledge in automotive field, metal fabrication, electronic diagnostics and mechanical engineering. Came to Ireland with family 11 years ago. I never used my degree here, was doing menial jobs for years, lacked "Irish experience" to get proper job, education wasn't recognized because it was seen as communist based (wtf? I graduated 2003), worked my way up, adjusted to local market, found which sector pay well, got well paid job, proved myself, fully employable now, trying to move further. I noticed that setting up my own business here won't get me far as being an immigrant I'd always been expected to accept lower pay for my services (don't take offence, this is the reality).

I can adapt to local market in Canada but don't want to make a move and start from scratch to get me nowhere, be always paid less etc. I want to get better quality of life for me and my family (4 seasons, amenities, space, mountains etc) but not at all cost. Having the family myself, considering cost of living and cost of property it seems to be a suicide now to emigrate there (especially Vancouver and Toronto - why would you move to a place with such high cost of living?).

dealhunter1985

ArnieSilvia wrote: »

When looking for jobs in Canada I found that there is a lot of opportunities, that don't seem to pop up in Ireland in my fields of interest.

All of that would be great if I didn't do more research and found out that apparently Canadians allow degree educated immigrants in, but are not necessarily keen on giving them jobs that would match their qualifications. Part of that could be high expectations and pride/dignity of newcomers too.

This doesn't seem to apply to blue-collar jobs and tradesmen and seems like good few Irish are doing well in professional jobs too.

I'd like to start discussion here and see what are your views on it.

The barriers that were mentioned:
- poor English (no excuse here I think, without English your qualifications are meaningless)
- "no Canadian experience" - you might have lots of qualifications and years of experience but you'd be rejected on this alone
- visa status (employers not keen on giving the job and investing in you if your residency is not permanent)
- non-recognition of qualifications (doctors, pharmacists, engineers, trades etc)

Seems to me that the only way to get what you want is to be massively underpaid, struggle for few years and then get what you're really worth. This means that you'd be young and have no family, have low cost of living, share house etc.

That's Canada for you. At least my experience anyhow.. They claim to be immigrant friendly but I think that's a load of rubbish for many of the reasons you outlined above. I'm very glad to be back in Dublin and didn't have any issues landing a decent job ( Needless to say on a much greater wage than I was earning in Toronto) Toronto was a real struggle though and I regret staying for as long as I did.

The few people that hacked it seem to be doing ok for themselves now, but they had 3/4 years of tough mind numbing work.
Is it worth that? I think it simply depends on where you are in your career...
For a student just out of uni/college, I think it's perfectly reasonable (and I would recommend the move to a graduate.. everyone has to start somewhere) For an experienced professional with years of experience behind them, I wouldnt.

Arcto

You have to be realistic as well lads, who is gonna give the 1 - 2 year IEC visa holder a high end job with the possibility they will leave after 12 to 24 months and they will have to start advertising for it again?

Trades etc do not fall into this area as they have a rate set out by the unions, same as in Ireland.

ArnieSilvia

Arcto wrote: »

You have to be realistic as well lads, who is gonna give the 1 - 2 year IEC visa holder a high end job with the possibility they will leave after 12 to 24 months and they will have to start advertising for it again?

Trades etc do not fall into this area as they have a rate set out by the unions, same as in Ireland.

Makes sense to me. Trade union arrangements would explain why a factory worker/cleaner/driver would earn half of what i.e. tradesmen (carpenter/bricklayer/welder etc) and also other professions (i.e. car mechanics) are getting, according to job ads anyway. The flipside is that you'd need local certification in majority of cases which closes door until you get it (and work under low wages for the time being). This situation would also affect the market because there would be a big competition for such a job (where locals win), unless in undesirable (cold) area or in specific type of job (oil field = dirty), in expensive location (low disposable income) etc

ArnieSilvia

dealhunter1985 wrote: »

That's Canada for you. At least my experience anyhow.. They claim to be immigrant friendly but I think that's a load of rubbish for many of the reasons you outlined above. I'm very glad to be back in Dublin and didn't have any issues landing a decent job ( Needless to say on a much greater wage than I was earning in Toronto) Toronto was a real struggle though and I regret staying for as long as I did.

The few people that hacked it seem to be doing ok for themselves now, but they had 3/4 years of tough mind numbing work.
Is it worth that? I think it simply depends on where you are in your career...
For a student just out of uni/college, I think it's perfectly reasonable (and I would recommend the move to a graduate.. everyone has to start somewhere) For an experienced professional with years of experience behind them, I wouldnt.

Thanks, you seem to echo what I hear that it's not all happy stories. Again, seems that if I'm an older guy (over 35) with family and some career done, then it's not for me unfortunately.

irlcad

Here's a happy story to get ya back thinking! Tonnes of luck involved though.

Myself and herself moved to what many would consider a remote-ish part of Ontario (Perth). We chose this place purely on merit after turning down a job in Mississauga (too expensive and a pure rat-race), so we could find the "real Canada". I was 36 when I entered Canada on an IEC in March, 15 years of IT under my belt, still self-employed through Ireland. 6 weeks after arriving, herself got a really great permanent job in nearby Smiths Falls (despite being on an IEC), we live in a house we've only ever dreamed of, with a garden sloping down to a lake that we have direct boat access to. I've also been offered an equity stake in two business ventures. All in 3 months.

From day one, every person we've met has gone out of their way to help us...finding us a house, organising BBQs/dinners/beers, offering to help us get settled, trying to find us jobs, re-doing CVs, helping in the garden, loaning us stuff, the list goes on and on.

Canada is an expensive country to live in but if you find the right place (like we have), it will change your life. People have looked on us as their own in every way and happily greet us by name in shops/banks/restaurants. Obviously everyone's situation is different but there's not a day goes by that we don't think how lucky we are to be where we are.

Just another perspective on what is always a really difficult decision to make...

montreal2011

The barriers that were mentioned:
- poor English (no excuse here I think, without English your qualifications are meaningless)

Don't forget French; Canada is about 75% English speaking and 20% French speaking.

- "no Canadian experience" - you might have lots of qualifications and years of experience but you'd be rejected on this alone

I would agree with this; employers will value Canadian work experience above all else. Even when applying got PR, I believe that having Canadian work experience will improve your chances.

- visa status (employers not keen on giving the job and investing in you if your residency is not permanent)

Again I agree; don't expect employers to have a clue about visas. When I came it was still only the 1 year WHV; now with two years, it should be easier. You may be able to bluff your way here and say you'll be able to get another visa easily or you'll go for PR straight away. Beware that new rules mean you cannot work for more than 4 years in Canada on a work-permit.

After a TFW has reached their four-year cumulative duration limit, they will not be granted another work permit in Canada for an additional four years. After that time has elapsed, the worker will again be permitted to work in Canada.

Source: http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/department/media/backgrounders/2011/2011-03-24.asp

- non-recognition of qualifications (doctors, pharmacists, engineers, trades etc)

Again this is true (and I feel understandable); you might have to fork out a lot to get your degree evaluated (e.g. $1800 for my architect GF, despite her having a Masters Degree from McGill in Montréal she must pay this to get her foreign Bachelors degree evaulated). Then after this it's exams and charges to get certified as an Architect.

Therefore, you hear stories of a German mechanical engineer being a truck driver for last 15 years who sent out 2000 applications that got him nowhere.

IMO sending out applications is most often a waste of time. Most jobs are never even advertised. When a position opens in a company first they will look to see if any existing employee can fill the role. Then they will look to see if they can get a recommendation, from a current employee for example. Then they will look at existing CV's that they have on file or people they worked with in the past (often the case for contract work). Depending on the company and the role, they might then go to an agency to fill the role. If all this fails, they might then go and advertise the role.

When my manager hired me (based on recommendation) he told me that the biggest worry he has when hiring someone is how well they will fit into the team. He had a recommendation so that was it; I essentially had the job; we did an interview but it was just going through the motions. He was hardly even paying attention when I was talking up my Masters.

That dirty word networking is what it's all about. Your German friend would have been better off doing this that sending out 2000 applications. Use your contacts. Join events. Meet people. Network.

@irlcad When I came over to Canada I had only one interview set-up and it was in Perth Ontario! It was with dominKnow Learning Systems but I didn't get it. I would say that I got 1 interview per 100 CV's I sent.

Ubiquitous Synergy Seeker

montreal2011 wrote: »

Beware that new rules mean you cannot work for more than 4 years in Canada on a work-permit.

If you're NOC0 you're exempt from the limit. I've been here 6 years on an assortment of permits without issue because I'm upper management level. There are some surprising lines of work in that NOC category too, so it's worth taking a look rather than bailing out before you need to