Grave Digging.

kneemos

How many bodies can you get in a grave.
Some of them seem to have several.If the previous occupant has decomposed presumably you can plant one on top?
What's the technique for digging a grave?If there's a recent one in there is it going to stink if exposed?
Any grave diggers around?

darkpagandeath

Alive or dead bodies ? the alive ones tend to want to escape.

Turtyturd

A grave ful.

DrGreenthumb

I got about 9 in a 7x3" one about 2.5 meters deep, the daisies also grow extra tall in that patch of land too

LadyFenghuang

Cremation all the way!

Ruu

Is this related to your drug deal thread as well? Worried. xxx

Chain Smoker

Think you've to buy a standard sized plot in most graveyards now that can take three, the first three are buried a bit deeper so that they can fit ones in above them provided enough time has passed without the risk of hitting anything.

There's a weird situation with some dead relatives of mine where a woman is buried with her mother-in-law and father-in-law while her husband is buried by himself on the far side of the graveyard due to the order and timing of the deaths being all so close together.

LadyFenghuang

Actually I want to be an organ donor and then donate my body the medical science. Confuse everyone and do a little good! And that way bits of me get another life! :-D

dubscottie

I don't know about Ireland but in Scotland the grave was dug deep enough to get 2 coffins, separated by at least 1ft of soil, and 2m of soil on top. The Idea was that if the husband died say, the wife could go in on top at a later date.

I know of one sad case where a couple and their baby were killed in a car crash. Unusually all 3 went into the same plot.

Forgot to add that the first coffin would only go deep if asked for. 2m below surface was standard.

kneemos

dubscottie wrote: »

I don't know about Ireland but in Scotland the grave was dug deep enough to get 2 coffins, separated by at least 1ft of soil, and 2m of soil on top. The Idea was that if the husband died say, the wife could go in on top at a later date.

I know of one sad case where a couple and their baby were killed in a car crash. Unusually all 3 went into the same plot.

Forgot to add that the first coffin would only go deep if asked for. 2m below surface was standard.

Why don't they cave in then when the coffin rots?

dubscottie

kneemos wrote: »

Why don't they cave in then when the coffin rots?

Because the soil is heavy clay which is packed around the first coffin using the mini-digger (once the family is long gone!!).

The graves are dug with a digger also so nobody is ever inside the grave to put a foot through a coffin lid.

LadyFenghuang

Lads....don't kill anyone...don't bury no one ...plllleeeeeaaasssse?

LadyFenghuang

Not unless it's zombies!

The_Valeyard

kneemos wrote: »

Why don't they cave in then when the coffin rots?

Maybe they do, but the graveyard caretaker probably maintain it by adding soil in. to level it off.

LadyFenghuang

You will need lime.

looksee

They do collapse down though, thats why new graves are well mounded up and older graves are level with or below the surrounding soil.

Massimo Cassagrande

dubscottie wrote: »

Because the soil is heavy clay which is packed around the first coffin using the mini-digger (once the family is long gone!!).

The graves are dug with a digger also so nobody is ever inside the grave to put a foot through a coffin lid.

Pick and shovel around here - my mate is the local grave digger. Back-breaking work, but well-paid as it happens. And he's gone down through the lids of many a coffin when digging in the same spot again...bit of soil on top - be grand. The dead people never complain much.

dubscottie

The_Valeyard wrote: »

Maybe they do, but the graveyard caretaker probably maintain it by adding soil in. to level it off.

They do overtime but that is why clay is used around the coffin. Clay is water tight to a point so it helps to protect the coffin.

If you look at any cemetery, hidden somewhere will be mounds of topsoil and clay..

If you dug down and found sand or soil, you would go off and get a trailer of clay for around the coffin.

LadyFenghuang

I'm back ...I had a quick avatar change ..ah that feels more comfortable!

State at an open grave too long they push you in. So I'm off! No one is burying ME alive .....gulp or dead! I just been born!

Gael23

looksee wrote: »

They do collapse down though, thats why new graves are well mounded up and older graves are level with or below the surrounding soil.

How long does that take?

dubscottie

looksee wrote: »

They do collapse down though, thats why new graves are well mounded up and older graves are level with or below the surrounding soil.

That is just the soil settling.. Takes about 2 weeks or even less if there is lots of rain. Same when you dig over any bit ground.

Coffins for burial are usually hardwoods that take ages to even start to rot.

catallus

Don't they put a board over the filled in graves and then cover that with the decorative stones or whatever?

So the question of caving in after decomposition of the coffin wouldn't arise.

Rubberlegs

I remember my Dad being called by the priest from his old parish to say his parents grave had collapsed on one side. He said when he went to sort it out, he raked back the stones and the muck had sunk in the shape of my Grandad's coffin. Dad is now buried on top of his Dad, as sufficient years had passed and obviously his coffin had given way and made more room on top.
An uncle of mine was a gravedigger years ago when graves were still dug by hand. He jumped into a grave he had dug to test the depth, and went straight through a coffin underneath

dubscottie

catallus wrote: »

Don't they put a board over the filled in graves and then cover that with the decorative stones or whatever?

So the question of caving in after decomposition of the coffin wouldn't arise.

I don't know what the practice is in Ireland but the council I worked for grassed over all graves. Maintenance nightmare otherwise.

Interesting point.. They put the coffins so deep in Scotland to stop grave robbing!! Goes back to the days of Burke and Hare in Edinburgh.

dubscottie

73Cat wrote: »

I remember my Dad being called by the priest from his old parish to say his parents grave had collapsed on one side. He said when he went to sort it out, he raked back the stones and the muck had sunk in the shape of my Grandad's coffin. Dad is now buried on top of his Dad, as sufficient years had passed and obviously his coffin had given way and made more room on top.
An uncle of mine was a gravedigger years ago when graves were still dug by hand. He jumped into a grave he had dug to test the depth, and went straight through a coffin underneath

I noticed that seems to be the done thing here. The family putting one coffin on top of another for generations.

I wasn't a grave digger myself but the parks dept looked after the cemeteries and crematoriums.

Every winter my crew had to do a 2 month stint in the crematorium. (nothing else to do). I witnessed some weird things and got to know the grave diggers.

The only place wives were not allowed to be buried with the husbands was at the Naval graveyard. Classed as war graves.

Arsemageddon

My day job very frequently involves digging up people who have been buried.

Trust me on this - if possible, you should get cremated or buried at sea.

Swanley

Dope!! I loved this one! How did it go again?!?

She take my money! when I'm in need...
Yeah she's a trifling, friend indeed;
Oh she's a gravedigger - way over town...
That digs on me...

Sweeeet!! Early West is too dope!!

DEFTLEFTHAND

The worst story from the Gravediggers radio doc was when they were digging down a new plot which was tight up against another families plot, when the grave was dug the neighbouring plot collapsed and a coffin which had being interred for about a year came crashing through the wall of dirt into the new grave.

Imagine having to deal with that.

_Brian

Guy that used to work for me also digs graves full time.. He said when they come down onto real old coffins they (sometimes seek priests advice) break on through and then when they get to their depth they bury the bones under where the current burial is going, typically 50-60 years lets this happen although most have partially collapsed in at that stage.

Spoke to an undertaker whom I'd know well enough and he said the toughest job was lifting a guy who had been buried 20 years previous, he had to be re-coffined graveside, brought for DNA testing and then re-buried straight away.

I saw a priests grave being prepared once and it was lined in the floor and a wee stand made with brick, sort of platform underneath.

Swanley

Jeeez.

316

_Brian wrote: »

Spoke to an undertaker whom I'd know well enough and he said the toughest job was lifting a guy who had been buried 20 years previous, he had to be re-coffined graveside, brought for DNA testing and then re-buried straight away.

CSI Cavan did the testing?

Sir Osis of Liver.

blue5000

I've dug a few, in some rural areas the neighbours would still dig a grave by hand, ie. not with a mini-digger. Usually the first grave is down about 2m.

Problems start when the deceased relatives are convinced that auntie Joan was buried 'right here', so it should be ok to dig 'right there', so off you and the neighbours go only to find auntie Joans coffin down about 4 foot. Then you start all over again, over to one side.

Shallowest grave I ever dug was in a very old graveyard, only 1m deep. Heard of a lad digging a grave for his brother, it was just finished, so he put his hand on the headstone to pull himself up. Poor man pulled the headstone in on top of himself and it killed him.

You're asked how many you want it for when you buy it.

_Brian

Deleted User wrote: »

You're asked how many you want it for when you buy it.

Used to be you could Buy in advance but most parishes here now you have to wait till someone is dead before a new plot can be bought. Also double width is the biggest allowed.

_Brian

_Brian wrote: »

Used to be you could Buy in advance but most parishes here now you have to wait till someone is dead before a new plot can be bought. Also double width is the biggest allowed.

When my kids died they asked how many I wanted the plot for. Essentially they dig deeper the more you want it for. My mam reserved the plot next to it, but she can only have it if she dies before the graveyard fills up!

lizzyman

DrGreenthumb wrote: »

I got about 9 in a 7x3" one about 2.5 meters deep, the daisies also grow extra tall in that patch of land too

Larry Murphy is that you?

Native Americans actually bury multiple people in the same grave, as opposed to digging one for each person. When someone new dies, they take up the tombstone of the previous occupant, and put in the new one in its place. They also have a belief that if you enter a graveyard on any time that isn't a funeral, then the spirits of the dead will haunt you for the rest of your life.

LadyFenghuang

Can we bury this thread??

316

Deleted User wrote: »

Essentially they dig deeper the more you want it for.

2 coffin depth is the maximum.

RDM_83 again

blue5000 wrote: »

I've dug a few, in some rural areas the neighbours would still dig a grave by hand, ie. not with a mini-digger. Usually the first grave is down about 2m.

Problems start when the deceased relatives are convinced that auntie Joan was buried 'right here', so it should be ok to dig 'right there', so off you and the neighbours go only to find auntie Joans coffin down about 4 foot. Then you start all over again, over to one side.

Shallowest grave I ever dug was in a very old graveyard, only 1m deep. Heard of a lad digging a grave for his brother, it was just finished, so he put his hand on the headstone to pull himself up. Poor man pulled the headstone in on top of himself and it killed him.

Can I ask (no problems if you can't say) since you've dug in a few old graveyards, do you still use Charnel pits or arrange any disarticulated stuff you hit on the way down around the coffin of the burial your putting in.
If your digging a nearly full old graveyard, do you tend to hit neonates and infants a lot in the top layer or in old graveyards still in use did they not do this practice?

I can confirm that yes coffins do fall in on top of each other and not just one or two.

Also its a myth that priests are buried West-East rather than East- West (idea is that they are buried so at judgement day they would be facing their flock) edit:maybe it happens some places but it definitely isn't universal not even in the middle ages

316

316 wrote: »

2 coffin depth is the maximum.

See above. My "receipt" says different!

blue5000

RDM_83 again wrote: »

Can I ask (no problems if you can't say) since you've dug in a few old graveyards, do you still use Charnel pits or arrange any disarticulated stuff you hit on the way down around the coffin of the burial your putting in.
If your digging a nearly full old graveyard, do you tend to hit neonates and infants a lot in the top layer or in old graveyards still in use did they not do this practice?

I can confirm that yes coffins do fall in on top of each other and not just one or two.

Also its a myth that priests are buried West-East rather than East- West (idea is that they are buried so at judgement day they would be facing their flock) edit:maybe it happens some places but it definitely isn't universal not even in the middle ages

'do you still use Charnel pits'

Normally when the old coffin is found we stop digging, because they collapse in, what's usually found first is the end board because it sticks up higher than everything else. If previous remains are found at a shallow depth they are placed at one end and left deeper than the new grave, but I've never had to do this.

'If your digging a nearly full old graveyard, do you tend to hit neonates and infants a lot in the top layer or in old graveyards still in use did they not do this practice?'

Only thing I ever found in the old graveyard was a tooth. I only dug one grave in that area and I was expecting to find more in a very old graveyard.

Arsemageddon

RDM_83 again wrote: »

Can I ask (no problems if you can't say) since you've dug in a few old graveyards, do you still use Charnel pits or arrange any disarticulated stuff you hit on the way down around the coffin of the burial your putting in.

In general, in cemeteries or in graveyards that are still in use the gravediggers will come across the coffins or bones of those that have been previously buried in the family plot. These burials are very likely to be uncovered or exposed during the excavation of the burial shaft but are not readily visible to the untrained eye. When my aunt was buried 10 years ago I helped to lower the body into the grave. On one side of the grave shaft I could see where my grandmothers coffin had collapsed away and the skeleton of my granny was exposed. That fairly flipped my wig at the time.

If your digging a nearly full old graveyard, do you tend to hit neonates and infants a lot in the top layer or in old graveyards still in use did they not do this practice?

That depends on how old the graveyard/cemetery is. In older cemeteries (late medieval with ruined churches and the like) the infants and neonates are buried to the northern side. There are also special burial sites for very young children called cillin. In later church sites the young are often buried outside the boundary walls.

I can confirm that yes coffins do fall in on top of each other and not just one or two.

In modern graveyard (last 150 years or so) this s very much true.I n earlier graveyard it was quite common that the excavation of a grave would disturb a previous burial. When the grave diggers disturbed an earlier burial they would often re-inter the bones in the grave of the new burial. The best known reference to disturbing an earlier burial in a medieval burial is in Hamlet when the good Danish prince finds the skull of a lad he believes to be Yorrick and starts soliloquising like a mofo.

Also its a myth that priests are buried West-East rather than East- West
(idea is that they are buried so at judgement day they would be facing their
flock) edit:maybe it happens some places but it definitely isn't universal not
even in the middle ages

In the Christian tradition burials are supposed to be orientated east to west with the feet at the west. The idea was that at judgement day the dead would rise to face the morning sun. The idea that the priest was buried in the opposite way to face his flock on the big day has some archaeological evidence to back it up, but TBH I kind of think that with a few exceptions its just boll0cks.

Jesus Wept

dig your own grave and save

rosie16

possible ask me anything thread?

RDM_83 again

Cheers for the replies Arsemagedonn and Blue5000, only dug one graveyard (but a lot of bodies it was very crowded) and sort of curious about the how its done in a modern times but in old graveyards

Arsemageddon wrote: »

In modern graveyard (last 150 years or so) this s very much true.I n earlier graveyard it was quite common that the excavation of a grave would disturb a previous burial. When the grave diggers disturbed an earlier burial they would often re-inter the bones in the grave of the new burial. The best known reference to disturbing an earlier burial in a medieval burial is in Hamlet when the good Danish prince finds the skull of a lad he believes to be Yorrick and starts soliloquising like a mofo.

The site I dug was post medieval so saw a lot of both, coffin stacking but also long bones etc being arranged in the grave cuts, also saw E-W,W-E some pairing of coffins too save space (so the coffin shoulders interlock).

Arsemageddon wrote: »

That depends on how old the graveyard/cemetery is. In older cemeteries (late medieval with ruined churches and the like) the infants and neonates are buried to the northern side. There are also special burial sites for very young children called cillin. In later church sites the young are often buried outside the boundary walls.

I am aware of the older Irish tradition particularly with the unbaptized but the site I was from the protestant tradition(s) and it AFAIK to occured as a space saving measure.

Arsemageddon wrote: »

TBH I kind of think that with a few exceptions its just boll0cks.

Agree, you can actually tell an old priest burial from them having a communion chalice buried with them. Its an archaeological rumour more than any evidence AFAIK

Michael2107

In Ireland the cemeteries run by the council only allow a depth for 2 coffins for H&S reasons.

When there's a chance of a coffin sliding over now a lot of the time stakes will be put down to hold it in place until after the burial

Gael23

I was at one of our family graves a while back to remove a shrub someone planted. When we cut away the roots it unavoidably disturbed some soil and the next thing I saw was a coffin nail. The first burial there would have been in the 1940s and the most recent (and final) in 1997.