Alan Shatter a minister?

phildin

I received a letter a few days ago congratulating me for participating in the marriage equality referendum. It's on official government paper (embossed with the seal) and it's from "Alan Shatter, TD, Minister for Justice, Equality and Defence".

Now as far as I know, Alan Shatter holds none of these ministries and I have a problem with someone using state resources to identify themselves with a position they don't hold. Presumably if a Joe Soap clerical officer sent out a letter identifying themselves as a minister they would at very least be in breach of internal departmental rules. Can ex-ministers identify themselves as ministers in official communications? Does this privilege extend indefinitely or is there a time limit? Is he still technically a minister and allowed to identify himself as such? Any pointers to legal and/or procedural rules around this would be very welcome.

Thanks,
Phil

expectationlost

phildin wrote: »

I received a letter a few days ago congratulating me for participating in the marriage equality referendum. It's on official government paper (embossed with the seal) and it's from "Alan Shatter, TD, Minister for Justice, Equality and Defence".

Now as far as I know, Alan Shatter holds none of these ministries and I have a problem with someone using state resources to identify themselves with a position they don't hold. Presumably if a Joe Soap clerical officer sent out a letter identifying themselves as a minister they would at very least be in breach of internal departmental rules. Can ex-ministers identify themselves as ministers in official communications? Does this privilege extend indefinitely or is there a time limit? Is he still technically a minister and allowed to identify himself as such? Any pointers to legal and/or procedural rules around this would be very welcome.

Thanks,
Phil

a letter like this http://www.broadsheet.ie/2015/06/05/whats-he-up-to/



yes he needs to update his letter head pronto. email him and point this out to him

phildin

Yes, that's exactly it. Any ideas on the legality of this?

expectationlost

phildin wrote: »

Yes, that's exactly it. Any ideas on the legality of this?

its most probably against the rules but I presume that Standards in Public Office Commission if they looked into would see it as a mistake and simply tell him to stop, I'd email Shatter first.

porsche959

Yawn. Is this really worth a thread? Someone in his office probably forgot to throw out the old letterheaded paper.

Banjo String

phildin wrote: »

Yes, that's exactly it. Any ideas on the legality of this?

You'd think shatter would at least.

jd83

I'd just let him use the old paper. We are probably paying a couple of euro a sheet from some buddies paper company. So he probably saving us money.

phildin

@Banjo String, Well I've asked him, I'll be interested in his reply. I know there's plenty of other things to get excercised over but this one bugs me. If he was sending it out on his own dime I'd consider it to be a case of over inflated ego but doing it on government headed paper seems like something that should be illegal and as you say, it's the type of thing he should have at least some knowledge of.

delahuntv

Illegal???? Ffs

Hopefully he'll file file your query under BIN

Amazing how people will waste time on such bull

Banjo String

delahuntv wrote: »

Illegal???? Ffs

Hopefully he'll file file your query under BIN

Amazing how people will waste time on such bull

You're ok with people claiming to hold positions they clearly don't hold?

Shatter has lost none of his arrogance I see.

BoJack Horseman

There needs to be a public enquiry into the stationary administration of Leinster house.

The truth will out!

Dannyboy83

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

There needs to be a public enquiry into the stationary administration of Leinster house.

The truth will out!

"This is a disgrace", said Aengus Ó Snodaigh from behind his IPad, as he auctioned off several printer cartridges on Ebay.

Riskymove

Banjo String wrote: »

You're ok with people claiming to hold positions they clearly don't hold?

Shatter has lost none of his arrogance I see.

He clearly says in the letter "when I was Minister etc..."


He signed it as Alan Shatter TD


Someone has used old letter paper

phildin

Riskymove wrote: »

Someone has used old letter paper

Just got a response and that's what it said, apparently this was an error and the old paper has now been destroyed. We probably don't need a high court judge involved at this point:)

Godge

Some people need to get a life and stop complaining about the smallest thing.

Riskymove

phildin wrote: »

Just got a response and that's what it said, apparently this was an error and the old paper has now been destroyed. We probably don't need a high court judge involved at this point:)

in one sense it would have been better (environmentally) to use the paper up.

I have seen incredible waste with headed paper when changes are made to titles of organizations etc.

shanered

Sure he can always get consultants in to change to headed paper to something more representable to his current office, but it will prob cost us a few pence!

blackwhite

Sounds like someone claiming qualifications they don't actually hold.

Disgraceful behaviour that.

Another example of pointless churnalism.

No real broadsheet would ever spend real money on real ink to print this trivia.

It's always the pre-clickbait generation of politicians who make these 'blunders' because in their day, the news wasn't synonymous with trivia.

_Whimsical_

Sounds like he has headed notepaper left over from when he was minister. I'd prefer him use it up than dump it and use money from the public kitty to get more printed up. I'm pretty sure all TDs get reimbursed for personalised stationary, no point throwing good money after bad and buying more at this stage so close to an election.

Banjoxed

Bit of mock outrage. We'll see plenty more of this before the GE.

Valetta

blackwhite wrote: »

Sounds like someone claiming qualifications they don't actually hold.

Disgraceful behaviour that.

What qualification was he claiming to have?

blackwhite

Valetta wrote: »

What qualification was he claiming to have?

None at all.

I said it sounds like doing someone doing that - something other politicians have done in the past.

nice_guy80

phildin wrote: »

Just got a response and that's what it said, apparently this was an error and the old paper has now been destroyed. We probably don't need a high court judge involved at this point:)

Cruelty to paper.
See where your inquisitive mind has got you

For Reals

Amused by all the snapping turtle government guard dogs, grumpus posting along the lines of 'get over it!' 'What about it!'. Fine Gael can do no wrong and don't even think about creating a thread unless it's of vital importance, these ones and zeros don't grow on some kind of *binary tree! (*patent pending Godge and pals)

The chap had a valid query and got resolution and from king of Dodge Ball Shatter no less. Chill the f*** out.

Yours sincerely,
For Reals, Prime Minister of Ghana.

Wildlife Actor

What's more interesting is the notion of sending these "personal" letters (probably 1000's of them - all identical) to people who have been added to the register (see link in expectionlost's post).

How do they get their hands on the names and addresses?

expectationlost

Love nor Money wrote: »

What's more interesting is the notion of sending these "personal" letters (probably 1000's of them - all identical) to people who have been added to the register (see link in expectionlost's post).

How do they get their hands on the names and addresses?

they are allowed via the council the (supplementary) register of electors, you can get it to but you have to pay.

Public_Enema

Godge wrote: »

Some people need to get a life and stop complaining about the smallest thing.

But it is not a small thing. Would you keep using business cards or company letter heads from a previous employer/position? Of course you wouldn't. You don't suddenly forget that you are no longer a minister for Christ's sake. Coupling that with the impression that Shatter has always given to me in public. And I come to the conclusion that it is typical arrogance and pomposity from him.

walshb

Godge wrote: »

Some people need to get a life and stop complaining about the smallest thing.

When the small things are done properly the bigger things look after themselves!

It's all about standards. Let's set them, not dismiss them!