Returning to Civil Engineering

SF12

Hi

I know I posted about job hunting here before, but I'm now trying to get a feel for one specific thing. So here goes.

I'm a civil engineer, 9 years out of college. My first 5 years were spent in construction. Obviously the recession then happened, and I moved away from engineering.

There are a lot more jobs around now and I would really love to get back into engineering, specifically design (not site work). Only it's nearly 5 years since I did any form of engineering now and I'm wondering would any employer be interested in me at all for an engineering role. I have a lot of project management experience, but little or no design experience either.

What do you think? Anyone in design companies or hiring, if a candidate like me came your way, would I be of interest to you at all? Is there any spin I can put on wanting to return to the industry?

Alkers

You could always apply for a graduate position? I can't see you being too attractive a candidate otherwise as you'll be looking for wages far higher than other people with no design experience.

SF12

I would need to earn approximately 40k pa. I just can't afford to go below that.
Unfortunately, civil engineers are not well paid, certainly not at graduate level.
I take your point.

Alkers

Agreed - in the current market you would be looking at roughly 5 years design experience (from graduation) to be earning that figure.

godtabh

The problem is as well as you may have been away from engineering for too long. I had a 2.5 year gap in my engineering CV. Found it very hard to get back into it as people thought I had forgotten to be an engineer. I think you will find it even harder to convince them you haven't unless you start at a reasonable low level.

I was luck enough to get back at the level I left

SF12

That would be the feeling I'm getting alright. I have absolutely no problem with starting at graduate level, but I can't afford to work for the rates that companies are offering graduates. At this stage in my life I have financial commitments, so I just can't take the cut in salary.
Truth be told, I'm not sure how anyone can afford to work at some of the wages that companies are offering.
Ok, thanks. I guess I'll just give up on engineering, and see where else I can go. I'm getting a bit desperate to get out of my current role and really struggling with what to do next, if I'm honest.

Alkers

You could look for project manager roles within engineering companies?

godtabh

Simona1986 wrote: »

You could look for project manager roles within engineering companies?

Same story unless he has been working in a similar PM environment role. This would be a senior role so difficult enough to get

The Megaphone

SF12 wrote: »

I would need to earn approximately 40k pa. I just can't afford to go below that.

Sorry to be negative, but no consultancy will offer you anything close to that salary with 5 years experience.

The big problem you face is that all the graduate / assistant level engineers that survived the recession are on low salaries so for a company to take you on that cost will blow their wage structure apart.

But things are picking up so get the CVs out there and best of luck

SF12

godtabh wrote: »

Same story unless he has been working in a similar PM environment role. This would be a senior role so difficult enough to get

Which I'm not.I figure I ok to apply for mid-level pm jobs, project team member type roles(in other fields, not just engineering).I'm just not having much luck lately, and I was trying to figure out how to widen the field a bit...and I would genuinely like to get into design engineering, but I suppose I'll just have to get over that.It's just a bit hard to figure out what's next when your chosen career, or anything associated with it, is cut off so suddenly.Also I've only ever wanted to be an engineer, hence my struggle to figure out what to do.Anyway, I'll keep at it and hopefully something will come my way.

breadmonkey

The Megaphone wrote: »

Sorry to be negative, but no consultancy will offer you anything close to that salary with 5 years experience.

Really? That's depressing, I wonder if I'll ever come back to Ireland...

Alkers

With 5 years experience, you would surely hope to be up at the 40k level? How many years experience do you think are required?

SF12

To be honest, at almost 10 years out of college with a degree and Masters in engineering, and a fairly varied level of work experience, I think that 40k is a very modest wage to look for in any industry. i really feel that it's not an unreasonable ask, and that I am quite employable. It's just that I'm trying to move between a couple of sectors, and it seems to be difficult to frame my transferrable skills in such as way as to convince potential employers that I am worthwhile taking on. I totally understand that civil engineering is trying to recover from almost decimation, and from the jobs that I can see advertised (And anecdotal evidence), I think most civil engineers, even with experience, are lucky to be paid over 40k at the moment. Graduate jobs seem to start around 20k or even less. Part of me thought that employers might take the view that I may be rusty on design stuff, but I have good experience of contract management and project management and dealing with client's etc, along with actual construction experience, which is experience that you can't teach, it's gained over time. My CV shows that I am a quick learner and well able to get up to speed quickly on new areas of work - so maybe that might make me employable as a design engineer - but clearly I was wrong.

I know people who are half that time out of college in areas like finance, and are up around the 60k mark. It makes me sick, if I'm honest.It opens a whole other debate really about the level of wages and recovery in certain industries vs others and all that, which wasn't really why I posted here in the first place. It isn't all about money, mind you, but let's face it, we all need enough to live on.

I guess I'll just have to keep trying.

The Megaphone

Simona1986 wrote: »

With 5 years experience, you would surely hope to be up at the 40k level? How many years experience do you think are required?

30 to 35k, with a possible premium paid over a company's own trained engineers if head hunted or if an urgency to fill the role.

The Megaphone

SF12 wrote: »

I know people who are half that time out of college in areas like finance, and are up around the 60k mark. It makes me sick, if I'm honest.It opens a whole other debate really about the level of wages and recovery in certain industries vs others and all that, which wasn't really why I posted here in the first place. It isn't all about money, mind you, but let's face it, we all need enough to live on.

I guess I'll just have to keep trying.

To be honest, if only 'The Wolf of Wall Street' was made 15 years ago, I wouldn't be an engineer right now. The salaries for anyone who graduated in the last 8 to 10 years aren't great and for anyone you graduated in the last four years, particularly those with a 5 year undergraduate master's degree, I just feel sorry for them. With the exception of Local Authority or Semi-State, there are fellas taking up jobs for little over €10 an hour which isn't right.

But like you said, job satisfaction is massively important but just be prepared to take the hit if you really want to make the jump.

Out of interest, are you chartered and what discipline are you in? Some pay higher than others, say Structural or Water Engineers are more desirable at the moment than Civil / Highways Engineers.

con1982

Simona1986 wrote: »

With 5 years experience, you would surely hope to be up at the 40k level? How many years experience do you think are required?

I know lots of guys on mid 30k salary with ten years continuous experience. Civil / structural engineering is very badly paid on the design side.

breadmonkey

con1982 wrote: »

I know lots of guys on mid 30k salary with ten years continuous experience. Civil / structural engineering is very badly paid on the design side.

That's absurd. I'm out of college 4 years and on about €46k in the UK and could probably be doing better. What are these guys designing exactly? Is it just really bog standard stuff or what? I mean seriously, are these lads working for companies competing internationally for work?

Alkers

Yeah, that's terrible pay. Are they based down the country? I don't see why anyone would stay in the career for ten years on those wages.

godtabh

Simona1986 wrote: »

Yeah, that's terrible pay. Are they based down the country? I don't see why anyone would stay in the career for ten years on those wages.

You wouldnt expect to stay on it for 10 years

The Megaphone

breadmonkey wrote: »

I mean seriously, are these lads working for companies competing internationally for work?

Competing for work on the international stage wouldn't influence salaries at that level. Most practices will have local offices who will do the bulk of the work with senior project managers / associates brought in to handle client engagement and the technical review side of things, these are the guys who profit from this.