Small to Mid Sizes Estate

GTE

Hi all,

I hope I have an interesting set of buying criteria for you guys and gals to give advice on.

My current car is a 2000 Golf Estate TDI90. In the 6 or so years I have owned the car, I'd say it has cost me just 500 euro in unexpected issues so between that and regular maintenance as per the Haynes manual, it has been an amazing car; still is!

I am being positive in so far as I have applied for some jobs which I confident about so I am thinking more and more about replacing the car; especially as one of those jobs would mean a two and a half hour commute to Belfast and back once a week.

Budget
This is a somewhat unknown as I need to talk to family and friends about car loans and the best way to go about that; but assuming it is a good option for me in the future, I would ideally want to get a CO2 Tax based car so 2008 or newer. 14000 euro is the max that I have been searching on online sites.

Estate
When I bought my Golf, I bought it on the basis that I am a drummer who would bring gear around a lot and I did. I do it a lot less now though. That said, as a sound engineer, I still have the need to carry a chunk of gear around. No Skoda Suburb estate size requirements, but my Golf has been fine for what I need.

The superficial part of me just does not like saloons and I am open to a good sized hatchback but I nearly always prefer the estate versions of cars.

Engine
I would love a 150+HP diesel but I also have no issues with a lower power on tax and MPG grounds. Though, having said that, if I was to go down the loan route, I'd say I would be disappointed without a modest amount of grunt.

DIY Servicing
Partly because of the age of my current car and to save money, I DIY service what I can. I had thought that I would like to stick with VAG as I know them, but the reality is that the servicing I do can be done to any car. Also, as the car will be newer, I think that trusted mechanic stamps would mean more.

Options (in order of what is grabbing me the most)
From a visual and engine stand point, I am a big fan of the Volvo V50 R-Design with the D4 177ish HP 5 cylinder 2.0 diesel. It is probably the one which has the greatest pull on me.

I like the look of Audi A4 Avants; but I am out of the loop with recent VAG diesel engines in terms of reliability.

A Skoda Octavia VRS estate would be nice too; same comment about VAG diesels above.

I like the look of the second generation Citroen C5; but I do not know anything about their engines or the car.

Its big, but I like the Skoda Superb too.

Reliability
Important :P

The Dealbreaker
The biggest thing that is really getting me down about my current car is that it is loud for me with respect to road and wind noise on motorways making long journeys somewhat annoying. I will not buy a car that is louder, and if it ever comes down to test driving of cars, I will have to bring it to a familiar road for me to judge subjectively and hopefully objectively.

Please God I will have some good fortune on the job front and I can get things moving; but I like to plan in advance so thanks to anyone who contributes!

Thanks,
bbk

bazz26

Maybe something like a Laguna or Megane estate:

http://www.driving.ie/used-cars/Renault/Laguna/Estate-1.5DCI/165914322905814850/

http://www.driving.ie/used-cars/Renault/Megane/DYNAMIQUE-1.5/156814290151848190/

Darpa

waits for the usual comments about 'french' cars

GTE

bazz26 wrote: »

Maybe something like a Laguna or Megane estate:

http://www.driving.ie/used-cars/Renault/Laguna/Estate-1.5DCI/165914322905814850/

http://www.driving.ie/used-cars/Renault/Megane/DYNAMIQUE-1.5/156814290151848190/

I am not too mad on the styling, but I will check out some reviews and see what is what.

Thanks

Red Kev

I think you need to look at the financial side of it first. You say that you want a cheaper CO2 based tax (fair enough, nothing wrong with that). On the other hand, to achieve this you are prepared to borrow money, therefore paying extra interest on it. Doesn't make a lot of sense IMO.

I've gone through phases of making a lot of money and having decent wheels and phases where it's been tight (setting up my own business) and just downgraded the car completely.. I'm in my early 40's and I've never borrowed a cent to buy a car, I also intend to keep it that way.

I think you need to evaluate whether you need to get rid of the Golf or just save for another year. If you want to change then you seem to want a bigger car that's quieter and more comfortable than a Golf, so what kind of mileage do you do in a year?

Also remember that it's more difficult to do more than the basic servicing on newer cars with all the electronics, but good independents are around if you ask.

On that basis, I'd go for one of these for a year or two and see how the finances are looking after that, both cars are cheaper to run over a year than a 2008 car costing €14,000. (BTW the V50 is a seriously small car inside once you start to load it up).


There's this Merc with 9 months NCT, little or no depreciation, easy to fix, cheap parts on the net, 32 MPG, nice cruiser but might be too slow.

http://cars.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/mercedes-benz-e200-estate-7-seats/9559997?offset=9



A bit newer, NCT 03/16 for €1900, facelift model so most issues were ironed out by then.

http://cars.donedeal.ie/vintagecars-for-sale/mercedes-e200-7-seater-estate-superb-example/9604687?offset=1




Or if you want the Cheap tax 2008 option there's something like this for under €6,500. NCT for nearly a year. Plenty of advice on this generation of Passat here to read up on.

http://cars.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/vw-passat-estate-1-9l-diesel-2008/9161605?offset=10

GTE

Red Kev wrote: »

I think you need to look at the financial side of it first. You say that you want a cheaper CO2 based tax (fair enough, nothing wrong with that). On the other hand, to achieve this you are prepared to borrow money, therefore paying extra interest on it. Doesn't make a lot of sense IMO.

Thanks for the reply. Mileage is at least 10,000 a year. From looking at car loan providers and by using car tax amounts to judge; across a 5 year car loan I will have saved the interest in tax with the V50. So, I will have (hopefully) a nicer car for the same money as keeping the Golf for the time frame of the loan repayment; which, is fine with me.

That said, using the tax alone is a very simplistic way of calculating things. I am taking the MPG and servicing costs to be roughly equal; though, I would say the V50 would be better as my 5 speed Golf struggles to get to 45 on motorway cruises. Realistically, I would have to use a reputable mechanic for a newer car anyway so that would be a financial hit or perhaps; financial reality.

Red Kev wrote: »

I think you need to evaluate whether you need to get rid of the Golf or just save for another year. If you want to change then you seem to want a bigger car that's quieter and more comfortable than a Golf, so what kind of mileage do you do in a year?

I am open minded about the size of the potential car. The V50 is about 40 odd litres smaller in boot capacity with the seats down and just under 100 smaller with the seats down than my current Golf, which I will need to think about. I think the more awkward shape of the V50 could be a the main issue. The Passat is an interesting one, I had forgotten about Donedeal. The V50s I am looking at start around 9000.

In terms of timescale, it may take another year for me to know what is going on and I will be keeping the Golf till then so I would expect the prices to be more on my side by then. By mileage, I would be around 700 euro worse off in fuel per year with the 2 litre petrol Merc you posted, but we had an E class of that generation in the family and it was a great car. If the Golf went kaput today, I think I would have a lot of fun looking luxobarges =D

The Honda Accord has come into the radar on reliability grounds.

ourheritage

What about a Toyota Avensis Estate. Toyota's are excellent for reliability, and longevity.

stimpson

I have to agree with Red Kev - no point in shelling out 14K to save a few hundred a year on tax. You'll save a ton by buying a 2007. I'd go for something like this:

http://cars.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/volvo-v70-2-0-t-2007-for-sale-in-kildare/9367004?offset=5

180bhp, excellent comfort, safety and monster boot. Put the 8K you save towards tax and petrol. They do ~32mpg, but I'm seeing the equivalent of 45 after an LPG conversion.

I've a 2003 S60 that I picked up for a couple of grand 2 years ago and do most of my own spannering. There were a few niggly things that were wrong with the car, none of which were expensive to put right (except coils, but I found a cheap source for them). Nothing major has gone wrong and it's a doddle to work on for general servicing. There are a couple of good enthusiast sites out there for researching problems.

GTE

stimpson wrote: »

I have to agree with Red Kev - no point in shelling out 14K to save a few hundred a year on tax.

I think I need to clear things up; 14000 happens to be the top end of what I am looking at. As I dig deeper, I have found a similar specced car for 9000 so the end price is very open. With something that is not going to happen in the very near future, I am allowing myself to cast the net fairly wide.

I am a fan of the V70. The 2.0 petrol idea is an interesting one but maybe I am missing something.

Presuming a 5 year loan is required for any car purchased and factoring in fuel costs for the repayment period; the V70 mentioned would be around 3000 more expensive than the 9 grand V50 I like the look of. I'd spend nearly double on fuel (5415 vs 9476) nearly three times more on tax (1400 vs 3550).

The V50 would work out as 600 cheaper per year. What I am trying to find out are good reliable cars which fit my general criteria so I would hope that the car would not cost me 600 per year on maintenance with the same hope for the the V70.

I would save 11000 if I kept the Golf, though. :P It very nice example of a quiet, reliable, cheap diesel could be cool then. Passat, A4, A6 kinda thing.
A bit slow, but the W210 Merc would be 2000 cheaper across 5 years but they rust.

Of course, how quiet it is and how reliable it is are going to be very important.

stimpson

Maybe I'm missing something but the V70 I posted was 3k cheaper. Also the tax on the 2008 2.0d v50 is 390 = 1950 over 5 years. I'd say the fuel difference is going to be a lot closer too, and the 5 banger in the 2.0T takes LPG very well if you go that route. Servicing costs on a diesel will be more also and you have to worry about the usual diesel issues DMF, DPF etc. The petrol has a DMF too but they are under far less strain from the petrol engine.

GTE

stimpson wrote: »

Maybe I'm missing something but the V70 I posted was 3k cheaper. Also the tax on the 2008 2.0d v50 is 390 = 1950 over 5 years. I'd say the fuel difference is going to be a lot closer too, and the 5 banger in the 2.0T takes LPG very well if you go that route. Servicing costs on a diesel will be more also and you have to worry about the usual diesel issues DMF, DPF etc. The petrol has a DMF too but they are under far less strain from the petrol engine.

I have the V70 you posted down as 6000 in my calcs. The V70 is 3000 more expensive in terms of fuel and tax costs for 5 years; 20727 vs 17421 for V70 vs. V50.

The V50 D4 I am looking at is 280 per year which in time may scrape into the 10k mark.

My mileage is at the point where the diesel vs. petrol service cost issue is in the diesels favour.

The DMF, DPF is stuff I am trying to find out about in this thread in terms of peoples first hand experiences with the cars; I don't wanna get too bogged down on the V50 itself.

The MPG I have been using is sourced from Parkers.co.uk which matches the cars in my family very closely so I tend to trust them.

Thanks!

stimpson

bbk wrote: »

I have the V70 you posted down as 6000 in my calcs. I am not too sure what you mean.

The V50 D4 I am looking at is 280 per year.

My mileage is at the point where the diesel vs. petrol service cost issue is in the diesels favour.

The DMF, DPF is stuff I am trying to find out about in this thread in terms of peoples first hand experiences with the cars.

The MPG I have been using is sourced from Parkers.co.uk which matches the cars in my family very closely so I tend to trust them.

Thanks!

The V70 was 6K, the V50 was 9K, so the V70 is cheaper, no?

GTE

stimpson wrote: »

The V70 was 6K, the V50 was 9K, so the V70 is cheaper, no?

I figured out what you meant and edited my reply.

After five years the costs are 20727 vs 17421 for the petrol V70 vs. diesel V50. Incl. fuel, tax and loan costs. Excl. maintenance, tyres and things I need to incorporate into the calcs but that I am (perhaps dangerously ) assuming are pretty similar with insignificant differences.

stimpson

Can you post your numbers for each car?

GTE

stimpson wrote: »

Can you post your numbers for each car?

Sure, here is a screen shot.

EDIT: Honda Accord seems like a strong contender.

stimpson

I'm assuming your using 65 mpg for the V50? I think the parker numbers are the manufacturers numbers - they are usually very optimistic. Fuelly has the best V50 diesel returning 53 mpg and the best petrol V70 at 42:

http://www.fuelly.com/car/volvo/v50?engineconfig_id=13154&bodystyleconfig_id=&submodel_id=

GTE

stimpson wrote: »

I'm assuming your using 65 mpg for the V50? I think the parker numbers are the manufacturers numbers - they are usually very optimistic. Fuelly has the best V50 diesel returning 53 mpg and the best petrol V70 at 42:

http://www.fuelly.com/car/volvo/v50?engineconfig_id=13154&bodystyleconfig_id=&submodel_id=

55mpg for the V50 was the figure I used.

EDIT: and your 32 MPG for the V70 which was backed up by Parkers.

stimpson

Fuel numbers look ok then. I'm kinda surprised, but I suppose that's from running on half price gas for 2 years

The loan cost for the V70 is higher for some reason though. Surely it should only be 2/3 of the V50?

GTE

stimpson wrote: »

Fuel numbers look ok then. I'm kinda surprised, but I suppose that's from running on half price gas for 2 years

The loan cost for the V70 is higher for some reason though. Surely it should only be 2/3 of the V50?

This is only running off some loan comparison site I found for the sake of getting calcs done quickly; not a major deal at this point but they seem to change every so often.

Mashie

bbk wrote: »

I am not too mad on the styling, but I will check out some reviews and see what is what.

Thanks

Will be in the same boat myself when my 00 gives up, if ever. Have the newer Renault's shaken off previous issues...? Seem like good value and based old Renaults wood be a comfortable drove? Oui?

Red Kev

One real world comparison...

A V50 diesel that I know of has averaged 6.5 l/100 km (45 MPG) over 3 years and 80,000Km. About 75% motorway at 130-140 km/h. A 2003 Passat diesel (110 bhp) that I had at the time was slightly more economical over a week and 900 km of driving around Ireland. Carried a more luggage and usually had 4 adults in it when the Volvo had 2.

Seriously small boot though, we have to take the front wheel off a touring bike to get it into the Volvo that could just be thrown into the back of a SAAB 9-5 estate. It was still a job to get the bike in without the front wheel. Driver sits very low as well, but it's a nice car to sit in all the same.

GTE

Red Kev wrote: »

One real world comparison...

A V50 diesel that I know of has averaged 6.5 l/100 km (45 MPG) over 3 years and 80,000Km. About 75% motorway at 130-140 km/h. A 2003 Passat diesel (110 bhp) that I had at the time was slightly more economical over a week and 900 km of driving around Ireland. Carried a more luggage and usually had 4 adults in it when the Volvo had 2.

Seriously small boot though, we have to take the front wheel off a touring bike to get it into the Volvo that could just be thrown into the back of a SAAB 9-5 estate. It was still a job to get the bike in without the front wheel. Driver sits very low as well, but it's a nice car to sit in all the same.

Thanks for that! I very much wish I had the TDI110 with a 6 speed as my TDI90 5 speed is annoyingly thirsty at 120. Still though, the VE TDIs are great.

Thankfully, I don't need to load very bulky things like bikes, but I am conscious that its more of a big saloon than small estate and I need to consider that.

Anyone with Honda 2.2 diesel experience?

Thanks!

GTE

I took a look at a few v50s today while I had time to kill. A bit compact, no issue there but the door handles are oddly cheap. Creaky and noisey. The R-Design was nice; solid everywhere else. Rear legroom is okay.

No other cars of note at the dealers I visited though I got lost in the back of a Superb and Mondeo. :-P

bazz26

S40/V50 are based on the MkII Focus so bound to be tight size wise.

GTE

bazz26 wrote: »

S40/V50 are based on the MkII Focus so bound to be tight size wise.

Aye, no awards for rear legroom on the MKIV Golf either so no big deal.