Yet another knife thread

Nexures

Hi there. I would like to own a karambit as I simply find those knives very interesting. I do realize that CARRYING a knife is illegal, but does the same law apply if you simply want to have it at your house? Like I don't ever wish to carry it outside of my house, EVER. I just want to have in my own home

Anybody knows ?

Pat Mustard

Looking at that weapon, it is designed to be held in the palm of the hand with one finger through a hoop in the handle.

This makes me wonder if it might be open to interpretation as falling under the 'handclaw' category of the offensive weapons regs:

(e) any weapon from which one or more sharp spikes protrude which is worn attached to the foot, ankle, hand or wrist (sometimes known when intended to be attached to the foot, as a footclaw and, when intended to be attached to the hand, as a handclaw)

If so, s.12 of the Firearms and Offensive Weapons Act 1990 would apply. Therefore, it would be illegal to import such a weapon.

Also, s.9 should be borne in mind, with regard to the prohibition of knives and certain articles in a public place.

A search of the forum will reveal loads of threads on the topic of possession of knives, etc.

Nexures

this sucks ;/ thanks

arthur daly

Pat Mustard wrote: »

Looking at that weapon, it is designed to be held in the palm of the hand with one finger through a hoop in the handle.

This makes me wonder if it might be open to interpretation as falling under the 'handclaw' category of the offensive weapons regs:


If so, s.12 of the Firearms and Offensive Weapons Act 1990 would apply. Therefore, it would be illegal to import such a weapon.

Also, s.9 should be borne in mind, with regard to the prohibition of knives and certain articles in a public place.

A search of the forum will reveal loads of threads on the topic of possession of knives, etc.

Not In any way arguing with what you said but I have seen them for sale in a good few hunting shops

Pat Mustard

I have no doubt. Sure, there are machetes on public display for sale in hardware and agricultural shops.

Pat Mustard

Nexures wrote: »

this sucks ;/ thanks

Well, S.12 only applies to offensive weapons, so bear in mind that the offensive weapon aspect of my post had a certain amount of conjecture on my part.

Also bear in mind that the offence under s.9 refers to possession in a public place.

Nexures

Oh, so noone is entirely sure how the law applies when it comes to having one in your home ?



also to the person who saw the hunting shops: Any hunting shops in Co. Wicklow :P?

Pat Mustard

Nexures wrote: »

Oh, so noone is entirely sure how the law applies when it comes to having one in your home ?

Go and look up s.9 of the Firearms and Offensive Weapons Act 1990 and see for yourself whether the definition of 'public place' includes private homes.

Nexures

well it doesnt say anything about private homes :P

Discodog

I went into a local tool suppliers & saw some razor sharp machetes in a glass cabinet. I asked the assistant to get me one & he replied that they weren't for sale. The manager, who I know, intervened to say "He's OK"

I was in Tescos & noticed two Guards looking at me. As I left the shop they came over & asked if I knew why they were looking. They pointed to an 8 inch double sided knife attached to my belt :eek: I explained that it was a specialist gardening knife that I use in the course of my work. They said it was fine as long as I didn't wear it out "on a Saturday Night"

Pat Mustard

Possession of a knife for use at work is a specific defence:

9.—(1) Subject to subsections (2) and (3), where a person has with him in any public place any knife or any other article which has a blade or which is sharply pointed, he shall be guilty of an offence.

(2) It shall be a defence for a person charged with an offence under subsection (1) to prove that he had good reason or lawful authority for having the article with him in a public place.

(3) Without prejudice to the generality of subsection (2), it shall be a defence for a person charged with an offence under subsection (1) to prove that he had the article with him for use at work or for a recreational purpose.

gumbo1

Pat Mustard wrote: »

Possession of a knife for use at work is a specific defence:

If you were stopped on the street wearing a pair of snickers trousers and had a Stanley knife it would be fair to assume that your answer is that it's need for work but some tracker knacker with the same knife couldnt possible use that excuse and would be giffted some fine silver bracelets for their effort! I don't think any job would require the kind of knife the op suggested. If it's going to permanently stay in your home, unless the guards are doin a search of your home, you'd have nothing to worry about! If you have several specialist knives then a valid reason to have it in your possession would be that it part of a collection you own! I don't like knives at all and don't think there is any reasonable explanation for any one to carry one on their person at all, work men have toolboxes so leave it there.

Discodog

Funnily enough Snicker trousers actually have a button & pocket specifically for their knife.

One handed opening knives appear to be legal & you can open those just as quickly as a flick knife.

Many people carry a multitool eg Leatherman, Swiss Army knife & they all have very sharp knives. There whole purpose is to be an everyday carry knife with scissors, bottle openers etc. There is a problem in the UK because they ban lock knives & most blades on a multitool lock for operator safety.

Nexures

you see guys, you keep talking about having the actual knife OUTSIDE. i dont ever plan on taking that knife out of my house. i just want to have it for ****z and giggles. But i checked in with couple of stores online that sell those things, and NONE of them want to ship to Ireland.

fml..

Nexures

and i find it hilarious that youre allowed to have a kitchen knife, which is more dangerous than anything ever...

Mourinho

Pat Mustard wrote: »

I have no doubt. Sure, there are machetes on public display for sale in hardware and agricultural shops.

They are usually referred to here as beet knives for tillage farming. They can also be allowed for the likes of chopping briers and that. In my own experiences there are a lot on the land that a strimmers or slasher would be ages to get through.

Wish I had a "beet knive" available locally would be extremely handy for clearing bushes and that

Discodog

Mourinho wrote: »

They are usually referred to here as beet knives for tillage farming. They can also be allowed for the likes of chopping briers and that. In my own experiences there are a lot on the land that a strimmers or slasher would be ages to get through.

Wish I had a "beet knive" available locally would be extremely handy for clearing bushes and that

Mine is made by Fiskars & it's very good. I got it in Caulfields Galway.

Mourinho

Discodog wrote: »

Mine is made by Fiskars & it's very good. I got it in Caulfields Galway.

Haven't seen any my way in Clare. Would you be able to PM a pic of it and I see what it's like? I'd nearly take a trip up to get one. Where is that shop?

Discodog

Mourinho wrote: »

Haven't seen any my way in Clare. Would you be able to PM a pic of it and I see what it's like? I'd nearly take a trip up to get one. Where is that shop?

PM on it's way

Pat Mustard

gumbo1 wrote: »

I don't think any job would require the kind of knife the op suggested.

Nobody is saying that.

You will see that my post followed the post from the man who said that he had a specific type of gardening knife for use in his work. Therefore, I mentioned the defence.

Pat Mustard

Mourinho wrote: »

They are usually referred to here as beet knives for tillage farming. They can also be allowed for the likes of chopping briers and that. In my own experiences there are a lot on the land that a strimmers or slasher would be ages to get through.

Wish I had a "beet knive" available locally would be extremely handy for clearing bushes and that

Interesting. I just googled 'beet knife' and while there are similarities, there appear to be definite differences.

Beet knife
(note the spike at the end):




Machete:



The knives that I have seen were machetes, not beet knives.

Mourinho

Pat Mustard wrote: »

Interesting. I just googled 'beet knife' and while there are similarities, there appear to be definite differences.

Beet knife
(note the spike at the end):




Machete:



The knives that I have seen were machetes, not beet knives.

While what you've googled makes it seem like they are two completely different tools but both can come under the category. For instance in South America the machete would be a tool (I'm sure you know anyway) used for clearing pasture, crops etc. The same thing.

Those knives you've linked are only a small selection of ones with the curved end. In fact they come various styles there are plenty without the curved end, longer blades with and without a curve etc. Think if you bought a work knife that could be anything from a disposable Stanley to a more expensive bells and whistles one.

In fact using one of those with the curved end would be a pure pain if using it for anything other than cutting stalks. Just thinking of cutting briers and it getting snagged in a piece of old electric fence hiding just makes me flinch

But here and the UK they would labeled at beet knives, etc

Frankly in my opinion it's done as not to send some into hysterics if they saw "machetes for sale" in the local shop

I wonder if it's also a way of not getting snagged in that law prohibiting them maybe I don't know.

Actually out of interest were the ones you saw labelled at all as a beet knife, machete, etc?

gumbo1

Pat Mustard wrote: »

Nobody is saying that.

You will see that my post followed the post from the man who said that he had a specific type of gardening knife for use in his work. Therefore, I mentioned the defence.

Yes, I am not disagreeing with you I just stated that if the op was to take it from his home an was stopped by gardai he would not be able to use the excuse that it was for work as not many types of work would require that kind of knife!

Discodog

Mourinho wrote: »

While what you've googled makes it seem like they are two completely different tools but both can come under the category. For instance in South America the machete would be a tool (I'm sure you know anyway) used for clearing pasture, crops etc. The same thing.

Those knives you've linked are only a small selection of ones with the curved end. In fact they come various styles there are plenty without the curved end, longer blades with and without a curve etc. Think if you bought a work knife that could be anything from a disposable Stanley to a more expensive bells and whistles one.

In fact using one of those with the curved end would be a pure pain if using it for anything other than cutting stalks. Just thinking of cutting briers and it getting snagged in a piece of old electric fence hiding just makes me flinch

But here and the UK they would labeled at beet knives, etc

Frankly in my opinion it's done as not to send some into hysterics if they saw "machetes for sale" in the local shop

I wonder if it's also a way of not getting snagged in that law prohibiting them maybe I don't know.

Actually out of interest were the ones you saw labelled at all as a beet knife, machete, etc?

You can easily buy a scythe, rip hook, axe etc that would all be as dangerous as a machete. One of the nastiest potential weapons is the folding pruning saw available in Lidl, Aldi, Tesco etc - razor sharp, easy to conceal & would inflict hard to stitch injuries.

A machete is perfect for clearing scrub. I had to cut back a load of briers growing through a chain link fence. I couldn't risk a hedgecutter. I even took mine on a walk to my local beach so that I could cut the briers back from the path :eek:

sff

Seems like depending on the style of Karambit it might fall under section b

( b ) a knuckleduster, that is to say—
(i) a band of metal or other hard material worn on one or more fingers, and designed to cause injury, or
(ii) any weapon incorporating a knuckleduster;

as well as the handclaw section

the wording seems like it's only illegal to show it to someone which seems strange...

(c) puts on display, or lends or gives to any other person

if you're a renter there's always the possibility of being raided because the previous tenants weren't on the up and up.

Pat Mustard

Mourinho wrote: »

Actually out of interest were the ones you saw labelled at all as a beet knife, machete, etc?

Can't recall. Will take a look next time.

sff wrote:

the wording seems like it's only illegal to show it to someone which seems strange...

(c) puts on display, or lends or gives to any other person

You left out (a):

(a) manufactures, sells or hires, or offers or exposes for sale or hire, or by way of business repairs or modifies

sff

Pat Mustard wrote: »

Can't recall. Will take a look next time.


You left out (a):

yeah, sorry, i mean if you're only keeping it for yourself and not going into business it seems its illegal to display it. that seems very strange to me.