Watch repair or open myself??

cerastes

Im looking for a recommendation for a wrist watch repair.

Its an analogue self winding watch (but it can be manually wound) and I quite like the look of it, but Im not sure how much its worth as I never saw one before.

I dont usually get an opportunity to wear it so the last time I was checking it, stupidly I dropped it, I managed to catch it on my foot and it seemed ok, recently I took it out to give it a wind, I'm gentle with these kind of things and I noticed it wouldnt wind past a certain time when I was setting the time, plus there is a little button that sets a pointer to the hour of day (basically indicates if you're near midday, midnight or in between, that doesnt work.

I suspect the damage occured at the time it was dropped, so something was knocked out of place.

It's probable this watch is cheap but I can find no information on it as I got it secondhand.
Second hand ticks away, but the minute/hour hand is wont go earlier than a specific time or later than another time, if the watch is running it stops at the higher value.
Date can be wound on and it could be wound up as the gauge that shows that is fully wound.

Who and how much to repair, or should I just have a crack at it myself??

edit, there's a window in the back and it all looks, well unsuprisingly intricate and nice

fret_wimp2

Really depends on a few things:

How much is it worth? If its a 40 quid Chinese automatic its probably not worth sending off to be fixed. just to have a decent horologist to look at it is going to be 140 quid. any spare parts needed will be on top of that.

If this is the case it comes down to:

Do you classify yourself as handy or a tinkerer?
If you have history of pulling things apart, seeing how they work and putting them back together, then give it a go. whats the worst thing that can happen, you break a cheap, already broken watch.

If you are not confident with a (tiny) screwdriver & good at figuring out mechanical things, then guaranteed you will just do more damage than good. Watch repair is not for the faint of heart, or the shaky of hand.

so if the answers line up, give it a lash, if not, then best leave it to a professional.

cerastes

thanks
Its fairly tiny parts, Id probably have to buy some particular tools and maybe a magnifying glass on a stand.
Any ideas on Mitsubishi motors watches? cant find much on them or any specifics on this one.

I dont know how cheap the watch is? or if it is, so dont know if its worth having a look at myself.

Any recommendations for watch repair places, Im not certain if I should be concerned about just leaving with any watch repairer, dont want someone to just be having a crack at it if they dont have some experience as I may as well try that myself, ie I dont know of anywhere to go?
Location, Dublin.

If there is anywhere that I can get any idea on what its value is, it might guide me to whether I need to try myself or pay out.

art

Why not post a picture here of the front and the back, we might pick up some better clues that way?

cerastes

Took me a while to get around to it, for one reason or another

Here's the pictures

DSCF0005.JPG

DSCF0006.JPG

blindsider

http://www.ioffer.com/i/new-mitsubishi-brand-stainless-steel-sport-auto-watch-535093208

http://www.ioffer.com/i/new-mitsubishi-brand-stainless-steel-sport-auto-watch-535093208

These provide an indication of value etc

The watch is probably branded by Mitsubishi as a corporate giveaway or 'lifestyle accessory' - most of the major marques do some of this.

The "Designed in Germany" piece is probably a generic statement - I doubt it refers to the movement......but......

Are they 'blued' screws in the 1st pic? One of the professionals, Wibbs, Peasant or the like will know. If they are 'blued' does this suggest a better quality movement?

Nice watch BTW.

cerastes

The screws do seem blued, thats not just the picture.
The movement? in the back that can be seen through the window is about all there is, at a different angle, at a diameter greater than this window inside this its a nylon plastic support that holds the movement.
I just like the watch and its look, it doesn't look cheap (as in poorly done or tacky) to me, so I dont mind what its value is, I just want to get it running again.

I just cant find any information on it at all, I think I tried that site before, but I'll check your links.

Menas

blindsider wrote: »

Are they 'blued' screws in the 1st pic? One of the professionals, Wibbs, Peasant or the like will know. If they are 'blued' does this suggest a better quality movement?

Those screws do look blued. That indicates that more effort has gone in to the manufacturing process. But really all it involves is heating the screws to a temprature and cooling again. It increases their hardness....and looks better imo.
So, while blued screws do not indicate a 'good' movement, they do indicate that this is not a cheapo movement.
Of course the proof is in the pudding, until the watch movement is identified we have no idea what it is.

Wibbs

They might be chemically blued too. Far cheaper.

cerastes

Menas wrote: »

Those screws do look blued. That indicates that more effort has gone in to the manufacturing process. But really all it involves is heating the screws to a temprature and cooling again. It increases their hardness....and looks better imo.
So, while blued screws do not indicate a 'good' movement, they do indicate that this is not a cheapo movement.
Of course the proof is in the pudding, until the watch movement is identified we have no idea what it is.

Not trying to get sidetracked, but I think there is more to blueing than that?
Ive always considered it an (electro) chemical process potentially under application of heat? It changes the properties of the steel by a chemical agent which creates an oxide on the surface, the corrosive chemicals that are used to do this are then rinsed away. It seems like an awkward process to carry out on tiny screws though and as far as Im aware its basic protection, but I presume its used because the watch isnt expected to encounter moisture?

Where do I find the movement make? I can see no name or other identification? how do identify it? I think Im just going to buy some tools on ebay and carefully open it up.

HDMI

Looks like a Chinese Sea-Gull ST16 movement or variation, sometimes it's listed as TY2867

If your not attached to the watch in a sentimental kind of way you could have a go at fixing it. If you run into trouble further down the road just buy a complete watch from the bay and pop a running movement in. Sending it off to be repaired will be more expensive than the value of the watch.

cerastes

Well done, I'm surprise that the movement is Chinese, it looks OK and doesn't seem cheap. I'll have a go.

Mredsnapper

Nothing wrong with Seagull movements. They are actually supposed to be pretty good.

Menas

cerastes wrote: »

Not trying to get sidetracked, but I think there is more to blueing than that?
Ive always considered it an (electro) chemical process potentially under application of heat? It changes the properties of the steel by a chemical agent which creates an oxide on the surface, the corrosive chemicals that are used to do this are then rinsed away. It seems like an awkward process to carry out on tiny screws though and as far as Im aware its basic protection, but I presume its used because the watch isnt expected to encounter moisture?

Chemically blued screws usually have a flat appearance without any character or depth.

Modern blueing techniques, of quality, involve the heating method...manufacturers can do thousands of screws at once in an oven. But the traditional small workshop method involves....

1) Make sure screw is completely clean. This is the hard part. Screw must be grease and dust free.
2) Heat up a hot plate and put brass filings on the plate. Then place the screw on the brass filings. Rotate the screw to ensure even temp coverage.
3) The screw will quicly heat up. It will change color from steel to straw to blue.
4) Quickly remove the screw and allow to cool.
5) If there is blotching then you did not do step 1 correctly! Start again.

blue5000

Menas wrote: »

Chemically blued screws usually have a flat appearance without any character or depth.

Modern blueing techniques, of quality, involve the heating method...manufacturers can do thousands of screws at once in an oven. But the traditional small workshop method involves....

1) Make sure screw is completely clean. This is the hard part. Screw must be grease and dust free.
2) Heat up a hot plate and put brass filings on the plate. Then place the screw on the brass filings. Rotate the screw to ensure even temp coverage.
3) The screw will quicly heat up. It will change color from steel to straw to blue.
4) Quickly remove the screw and allow to cool.
5) If there is blotching then you did not do step 1 correctly! Start again.

Is the brass just to conduct the heat evenly to the screw, or is there some chemical reaction as well? Also is the screw quenched in oil?

cerastes

Menas wrote: »

Chemically blued screws usually have a flat appearance without any character or depth.

Modern blueing techniques, of quality, involve the heating method...manufacturers can do thousands of screws at once in an oven. But the traditional small workshop method involves....

1) Make sure screw is completely clean. This is the hard part. Screw must be grease and dust free.
2) Heat up a hot plate and put brass filings on the plate. Then place the screw on the brass filings. Rotate the screw to ensure even temp coverage.
3) The screw will quicly heat up. It will change color from steel to straw to blue.
4) Quickly remove the screw and allow to cool.
5) If there is blotching then you did not do step 1 correctly! Start again.

Interesting, but I still thought it was as much a chemical process with any items to be blued dipped in a corrosive solution that aided forming oxides of the metal in question on its surface, a type of oxide which inhibits corrosion such as commonly known red oxide.

Menas

blue5000 wrote: »

Is the brass just to conduct the heat evenly to the screw, or is there some chemical reaction as well? Also is the screw quenched in oil?

The brass is to evenly distribute the heat.

cerastes wrote: »

Interesting, but I still thought it was as much a chemical process with any items to be blued dipped in a corrosive solution that aided forming oxides of the metal in question on its surface, a type of oxide which inhibits corrosion such as commonly known red oxide.

Have a look at this link for more details.

HDMI

I found a couple of threads on watchuseek which might help you out if you decide to have a go at tearing it down.

Inside an ST16 http://forums.watchuseek.com/f72/inside-st16-lots-images-207839.html

The second post shows you the Claro CL-888 Swiss movement vs the Sea-Gull ST16, not much difference between the Swiss and the Chinese.

http://forums.watchuseek.com/f72/claro-semag-cl-888-versus-sea-gull-st16-tear-down-312588.html

cerastes

Any thoughts on somewhere/one recommended to bring to repair the watch I mentioned earlier in the thread?
I did order a kit of tools back when I was posting but they were fairly cheap, I could open the back of the watch but didnt want to do damage trying to take the hands off as there were no tools to remove the hands and a I just didnt want to make it worse, any ideas for what cost Im looking at to try repair, I would like an opportunity to wear this watch.

HDMI

cerastes wrote: »

Any thoughts on somewhere/one recommended to bring to repair the watch I mentioned earlier in the thread?

Not sure of anyone in Ireland who would do it for less than €150, best bet would be to contact Michael Swift and see if he would be prepared to work on it for you. http://www.michaelswift.co.uk/priceguide.php

cerastes

HDMI wrote: »

Not sure of anyone in Ireland who would do it for less than €150, best bet would be to contact Michael Swift and see if he would be prepared to work on it for you. http://www.michaelswift.co.uk/priceguide.php

Thanks for that, would never have found him by googling myself.
Is he an Horologist of some note? Before I clicked on "contact us" on the web page, I was thinking this guy is probably not in Dublin (I was thinking Cork).
Is this how far you have to go to get the nearest horologist? is he better for some reason or just a good guy with a better price being in the UK?

I'll give him an email and see what he says.