Registering a South Africa Classic Car

batmansuncle

So I recently bought a classic car, still on south african plates. The car was imported in 2010 and sat in a garage since. The tax office said I might be liable for fees on this, I'd have to provide details of where it was parked.

1)Can i avoid these fees if previous owner says its garaged all time they owned it or will I have to pay it.

2)Also the bigger problem - with the SA registration doc, so I found out off a SA vehicle check the car was de-reg'd there at some time. To get a car re-reg'd over there it involves a lot of jumping through hoops. So instead of doing this a vin plate was pulled off a later car and stuck on. the chassis no etc wasnt touched. the reg doc and all details are for the later car.

Someone along the way here photoshopped a reg doc using the earlier correct chassis number on later reg document. What happens if i use this doc to reg the car here, when they send this back to SA and they have no record as the chassis is not correct what will happen. Theres no central car authority and there system is a total shambles by all a/c's. its proving impossible to get a copy of the correct de-reg doc for the correct/early chassis no as you have to contact the owner to get this, but i cant get the details. If i use the photoshopped doc what would be the consequences if SA authorites come back saying this has been tampered with, if they indeed notice?

I dont want to change the chassis to the later number and docs as its a couple yrs later and it was a model change from like a mk1 to mk2 and would obv be wrong to anyone in the know and knock down value on the car.

Any help/advise would be really appreciated as i dont know what to do

porsche boy

Not sure on the second bit but you can't be liable for anything before you bought the car and the tax office should have told you that.
I'd reckon this will take a few calls to the tax office in Shannon and just getting the right person on the phone who wants to help rather than just passing the buck or bouncing it back to you.
Out of curiosity, what's the car?

batmansuncle

Thanks I've rang the NCT/VRT section and they've told be speak to my local revenue office, i rang there and the VRT phoneline was a message service. So i left my name number and message. But thats weeks ago and no one ever came back to me. Its very difficult to get any one with exact information.

I usually post under another user name, as the car is very rare here and with uncertainty of paperwork I'd rather not give the details away. when its sorted out i'll post up in the project/build section

*Kol*

MkII Escort is my bet!!

batmansuncle

*Kol* wrote: »

MkII Escort is my bet!!

Nope its a hell of a lot rarer!

batmansuncle

Put this in the motors section but should probably have put it in here.
So I recently bought a classic car, still on south african plates. The car was imported in 2010 and sat in a garage since. The tax office said I might be liable for fees on this, I'd have to provide details of where it was parked.

1)Can i avoid these fees if previous owner says its garaged all time they owned it or will I have to pay it.

2)Also the bigger problem - with the SA registration doc, so I found out off a SA vehicle check, the car was de-reg'd there at some time. To get a car re-reg'd over there it involves a lot of jumping through hoops. So instead of doing this a vin plate was pulled off a later car and stuck on. the chassis number etc wasnt touched. the reg doc and all details are for the later car.

Someone along the way here photoshopped a reg doc using the earlier correct chassis number on later reg document. What happens if i use this doc to reg the car here, when they send this back to SA and they have no record as the chassis is not correct what will happen (dont know if this would even be copped in SA). Theres no central car authority and there system is a total shambles by all a/c's. its proving impossible to get a copy of the correct de-reg doc for the correct/early chassis number as you have to contact the owner to get this, but i cant get the details. If i use the photoshopped doc what would be the consequences if SA authorites come back saying this has been tampered with, if they indeed notice?

I dont want to change the chassis to the later number and docs as its a couple yrs later and it was a model change from like a mk1 to mk2 and would obv be wrong to anyone in the know and knock down value on the car.

Any help/advise would be really appreciated as i dont know what to do

shineon23

batmansuncle wrote: »

Put this in the motors section but should probably have put it in here.
So I recently bought a classic car, still on south african plates. The car was imported in 2010 and sat in a garage since. The tax office said I might be liable for fees on this, I'd have to provide details of where it was parked.

1)Can i avoid these fees if previous owner says its garaged all time they owned it or will I have to pay it.

2)Also the bigger problem - with the SA registration doc, so I found out off a SA vehicle check, the car was de-reg'd there at some time. To get a car re-reg'd over there it involves a lot of jumping through hoops. So instead of doing this a vin plate was pulled off a later car and stuck on. the chassis number etc wasnt touched. the reg doc and all details are for the later car.

Someone along the way here photoshopped a reg doc using the earlier correct chassis number on later reg document. What happens if i use this doc to reg the car here, when they send this back to SA and they have no record as the chassis is not correct what will happen (dont know if this would even be copped in SA). Theres no central car authority and there system is a total shambles by all a/c's. its proving impossible to get a copy of the correct de-reg doc for the correct/early chassis number as you have to contact the owner to get this, but i cant get the details. If i use the photoshopped doc what would be the consequences if SA authorites come back saying this has been tampered with, if they indeed notice?

I dont want to change the chassis to the later number and docs as its a couple yrs later and it was a model change from like a mk1 to mk2 and would obv be wrong to anyone in the know and knock down value on the car.

Any help/advise would be really appreciated as i dont know what to do

Firstly I wouldnt touch or recommend touching a car with 2 vins or I.d's being used.

If you have already bought the car, I'd get a receipt at the very least of date of purchase (hand written), duty should have been paid when a vehicle first enters the EU. If it hasn't you could be liable to pay this.

Minimum you will have to pay the €200 vrt assuming car is over 30 years sold.

VRT inspection involves a vin check, plate and body stamp, so make sure these are matching or it could be refused registration.

Am i right in saying you have a shell with eg a chassis body stamp for a 76 car and the vin plate is for eg a 78 car? If this is the case I'd look to get a replacement vin plate made to match the chassis stamp on the shell. Providing this is the legitimate ID for your car.
If you turn up anywhere for inspection with 2 conflicting VIN numbers expect a lot of questions and maybe further action (car could be seized).

Regarding no paperwork. I don't know what they'll do, maybe you can register via the vin number to determine year of manufacture.


I bought an original irish car without a log book and it took me almost 2 years to get a replacement book as original had been lost by previous owner.
This process involved;
presenting car at a main dealers to ensure vin plate and body stamp etc. are from what the car claims to be, main garage stamp.

Garda stamp and Peace Commissioner stamping Oaths to declare you own the car and all info you provide it legitimate
(This may not apply to you as the car hasnt been registered in Ireland, but I'd imagine they have you jumping through similar hoops, I got many different stories before I actually got the book in my hand)

feel free to pm me if you want any more info on what i had to do or any questions, if i can be of any help.

savagethegoat

prototype Batmobile?

I think you should ask yourself why it was garaged all those years...probably because the seller found it near impossible to re-register.

Can of worms. You basically have a car illegally in the Country with a false id applied and no paperwork

I doubt the seller will want to play ball in fear of getting a big bill.

My guess? Mk3 Cortina , kinda of yellowy beige with a 3 litre Essex under the hood....wild guess..

savagethegoat

this thread also appears in Classic Cars

biko

Threads merged

Tzar Chasm

My bet is one of the aussie beasts, either

XC falcon
HX monaro/kingswood
CL/VK charger

Otherwise a taxbook could have been 'found' if a similar version exister here

edit

just did a quick google, only the XC and CL existed in 76 and 78 versions

savagethegoat

South African........

Tzar Chasm

All of those cars were also manufactured and sold in ZA.

but can be considered Australian in their design origins, although some local variations were incorporated into the south african version

Tzar Chasm

OP, if its an XC 351 GS , I would be willing to take it off your hands and deal with the mountains of hassle involved, as a favour to ya like;)

batmansuncle

Came in & 1st reg'd in SA but not manufactured there. That falcon XB build in the projects section is sweet. But no.

The car needs a good bit of work and the guy i bought it from had some other seriously cool toys in his garage so thats why he was selling it & hadnt try reg'ing it.

I have contemplating loosing all the doc's and later vin, you can tell month/ year of manufacture from the correct chassis number alright. But shineon23's 2 year wait and all the requirements seems like a hell of a lot of hassle.

shineon23

batmansuncle wrote: »

I have contemplating loosing all the doc's and later vin, you can tell month/ year of manufacture from the correct chassis number alright. But shineon23's 2 year wait and all the requirements seems like a hell of a lot of hassle.

The reason it took me so long was I was getting passed around by everyone with noone wanting to (knowing how to) solve my issue, and getting conflicting many stories and instructions.

If I was in your position I'd look into getting a VIN plate made, matching the body stamp asap as I'm sure anyone issuing new irish paperwork for a car will be relying on this information, I'd say a new plate is relatively easy to get depending on make/model. Having no paperwork and 'Losing the incorrect paperwork' would raise less questions and hassle than rocking up with conflicting numbers anyway,

If you look around on this site I recall someone trying to register a vehicle that was never registered before, possibly a tractor or lorry and they were told they'd be issued a brand new reg .i.e 151 D or 152 D soon enough.
But cannot see this being feasible as it could open up a vintage vehicle with a new reg to NCT testing, emissions testing and emissions based road tax.
I think it'll all depend on who you get talking to in the motor tax office or VRT crowd as a lot of them haven't a clue what to do unless the answer is on the screen in front of them.

Best of luck sorting this out,

mattroche

I was recently buying a Porsche 924, that came from Germany some few years ago, but was never cleared. There was no paperwork for it, as it had been de-registered in Germany. I decided to check with the N.C.T./ V.R.T. officer, whom I have had a lot of dealings with, he informed me that there was no way to clear it without the Paperwork. So I did not buy it. Anyway, as this car has come from outside the E U. I think it would be liable for some form of import duty, + V.A.T.