Motorcycle Courier vs Pedestrian

martomcg

Hey,

Caught this footage on Thursday 28th May at 4.00pm.

Didn't have time to stop and give my details to the biker. Sharing it here in case someone knows him and he wants to follow it up.

I presume in this case the pedestrian is completely in the wrong here?

b_mac2

Good man for stopping ffs...

blade1

martomcg wrote: »

Hey,

I presume in this case the pedestrian is completely in the wrong here?

not the right place for the pedestrian to be crossing but if you just assume everyone else is going to do the right thing, it will only be a matter of time before you get caught out.

A lesson for both of them as far as I can see!

sonic85

cant see how too much blame can be attributed to the biker - she was totally shielded by the 4x4 and didn't bother her bollix looking where she was going

she actually broke into a run without knowing what was on the other side of the 4x4 just as the bike was passing. she was very lucky. hope they were both ok anyway - could've been nasty

Cienciano

No idea who's in the wrong, in my head it's about 70-30, ped more in the wrong. Obviously not looking is the problem, but biker should have been looking too.

b_mac2 wrote: »

Good man for stopping ffs...

Sometimes you just don't have the time.

b_mac2

Cienciano wrote: »

Sometimes you just don't have the time.

Yeah, and this is what's wrong with people today... Too "busy" to look out for one another. Wouldn't of taken literally two minutes to stop and give his mobile number to both of them.

rat_race

They were both in the wrong. She is a numpty, plain and simple. But he was driving too fast and was then accelerating fast to go nowhere; there were already people crossing the road up ahead, so he would have been sitting in a yellow box anyway. So the woman pedestrian probably would have thought, as it's a red light, and a yellow box, that she was safe enough to act stupidly.

HOWEVER, what really pisses me off about this is how he gets up, and all he's worried about is his bike. I've seen so many videos like that. Turn your f*ck1ng ignition off, sure, but then see if the woman on the ground, that you just hit at 50km/h, is okay.

Pedro K

She actually runs into the side of him. The bike doesn't hit her as such... She hits the bike!

Tony Beetroot

Lack of pedestrian crossings are the causes of these collisions.

gerrowadat

Tony Beetroot wrote: »

Lack of pedestrian crossings are the causes of these collisions.

Knowing this junction, there are ped crossings on all 4 sides, and the camera was stopped right at one. Sheer impatience and stupidity to be crossing between cars when there was a red ped light showing.

Max Headroom

Theres a lot going on in that video that we cant see...Did the biker break a red light when turning..?..He was overtaking at a junction ,which is illegal, i'm sure he shouldnt be overtaking on a yellow box, was there a green man showing on any of the traffic lights..?he definately should have been more careful..imaging she had been carrying a child, or worse........................a KFC...

50/50 imo....if there was no red light...100% biker if the was

biketard

As Max says, there's a lot going on.

Is this not also the fault of the cars stopped in the box junction? They shouldn't even enter that unless they are clear to continue. The only exception is if you are waiting to turn right and are prevented from doing so only by oncoming traffic. That's not the case here.

So in my opinion, the cars in the yellow box are to blame, the pedestrian is to blame, and the biker is to blame too (just by entering the yellow box [and it really looked like he was almost accelerating towards a red light]).

But I have to say that's a really stupid place to have a yellow box junction.

martomcg

biketard wrote: »

As Max says, there's a lot going on.

Is this not also the fault of the cars stopped in the box junction? They shouldn't even enter that unless they are clear to continue. The only exception is if you are waiting to turn right and are prevented from doing so only by oncoming traffic. That's not the case here.

So in my opinion, the cars in the yellow box are to blame, the pedestrian is to blame, and the biker is to blame too (just by entering the yellow box [and it really looked like he was almost accelerating towards a red light]).

But I have to say that's a really stupid place to have a yellow box junction.

In this case the biker had a green light. The reason its a yellow box junction is because the Luas crosses the road there. Its a problem everyday where cars block up the junction.

As said above there's a pedestrian crossing on all 4 sides of that junction and no reason for a pedestrian to be running out into the middle of it.

Max Headroom

martomcg wrote: »

In this case the biker had a green light. The reason its a yellow box junction is because the Luas crosses the road there. Its a problem everyday where cars block up the junction.

As said above there's a pedestrian crossing on all 4 sides of that junction and no reason for a pedestrian to be running out into the middle of it.

Maybe..but as biketard pointed out the cars shouldnt be there ,and for that fact neither should the bike have entered the box....

Its one of those situatione, we;ve all done things and got away with it, if this if that..its just lucky noone was hurt (for now;)) in the accident.....
But i'm going to say if the pedestrian took out a claim on this fottage i think she would get a few bob.....just sayin....

peckerhead

Congrats, OP,you made it into Broadsheet!

I suspect that jury will be more hostile.

My own 2c? The accident is the stupid pedestrian's fault, but this kind of stupidity is so endemic that anyone riding a bike in city centre traffic really needs to make allowance for it. If it had been a small child that ran out, the kid would be dead now, and it wouldn't be much consolation to anyone to say that it was their own fault.

nc19

rat_race wrote:

HOWEVER, what really pisses me off about this is how he gets up, and all he's worried about is his bike. I've seen so many videos like that. Turn your f*ck1ng ignition off, sure, but then see if the woman on the ground, that you just hit at 50km/h, is okay.

Not a biker? If I go down for what ever reason the first thing I do is lift the bike. Same as every other biker I know.

Pkiernan

I really cannot believe that the OP just drove off, knowing he had just captured video footage of this accident.

What sort of biker are you ffs? Out of concern you post this footage 2 weeks later?
What is wrong with you that you couldnt spare 5 effing minutes to help these folks?
At the very least you should have stopped to give your details?

What were you doing - transporting a heart for transplant ???? Shame on you.

KTR1C

nc19 wrote: »

Not a biker? If I go down for what ever reason the first thing I do is lift the bike. Same as every other biker I know.

100% on this, apart from the fact a running bike could easily start spinning out of control if the wheels are still going and cause further injury.

The pedestrian was totally in the wrong here, is it really hard to spot lads ??

I didn't think it was possible for Ireland to get even more "sure its grand" than it is !! :rolleyes:

Blondie919

Pkiernan wrote: »

I really cannot believe that the OP just drove off, knowing he had just captured video footage of this accident.

What sort of biker are you ffs? Out of concern you post this footage 2 weeks later?
What is wrong with you that you couldnt spare 5 effing minutes to help these folks?
At the very least you should have stopped to give your details?

What were you doing - transporting a heart for transplant ???? Shame on you.

Climb down off your high horse there. As has been said already sometimes you just can't stop. Where was he going to pull in? In the yellow box? The left junction into oncoming traffic? 200 meters down the road when he is already caught for time? The OP has it on video and put it up here.

biketard

martomcg wrote: »

In this case the biker had a green light. The reason its a yellow box junction is because the Luas crosses the road there. Its a problem everyday where cars block up the junction.

As said above there's a pedestrian crossing on all 4 sides of that junction and no reason for a pedestrian to be running out into the middle of it.

You know I actually typed another bit saying that perhaps the biker may have had a green light, in which case he was good to go, but that couple had just started crossing, and both the OP and the car beside him were stood still, implying that the light was still red.

arybvtcw0eolkf

Save for an absolute dire family emergency I can't see why the OP didn't have the compassion to stop, it doesn't take too long to ask after everyone's welfare, offer a phone or witness details.

Regardless of the rights and wrongs of who is at fault its shameful to just f*ck off and not bother like the OP did.

The OP f*cked off without even a backwards glance.. For shame.

martomcg

Savannah Raspy Notch wrote: »

Save for an absolute dire family emergency I can't see why the OP didn't have the compassion to stop, it doesn't take too long to ask after everyone's welfare, offer a phone or witness details.

Regardless of the rights and wrongs of who is at fault its shameful to just f*ck off and not bother like the OP did.

The OP f*cked off without even a backwards glance.. For shame.

Both of them were on their feet before I moved off and I've shared the footage here and on broadsheet.

Nobody died, so chill out.

arybvtcw0eolkf

martomcg wrote: »

Both of them were on their feet before I moved off and I've shared the footage here and on broadsheet.

Nobody died, so chill out.

"Nobody died", I doubt you'd have cared too much either way ~ time being so precious!.

IMO your actions (or lack of) are pretty shameful.. More then once I've thought to myself that this country needs a 'Good Samaritans Law' (France, Switzerland, Germany have it) whereby your actions would have been deemed illegal.

If time wasn't so precious to you you could have traced the courier company yourself instead of asking us to do your footwork.

You've a neck.

rat_race

nc19 wrote: »

Not a biker? If I go down for what ever reason the first thing I do is lift the bike. Same as every other biker I know.

I am a biker...and I consider myself more of a biker than someone who puts his bike before people in a crash. Would love to hear your reason for addressing your bike before people. Coolant is cheap. Oil drips back down into the sump.

rat_race

KTR1C wrote: »

100% on this, apart from the fact a running bike could easily start spinning out of control if the wheels are still going and cause further injury.

If you'd read what I said, you'd know that I said the ignition should be turned off first. What are the other reasons that you're "100% on"?

Also who gives a sh1t who was right or wrong? Is that supposed to influence your priorities over people versus machine?

seamus

rat_race wrote: »

I am a biker...and I consider myself more of a biker than someone who puts his bike before people in a crash. Would love to hear your reason for addressing your bike before people.

Shock, panic, embarrassment? I remember slipping on a roundabout once cos some prick pulled out in front of me. All I wanted to do was pick my bike up and get the fnck out of the way. I only pulled in to check if myself or the bike was OK 1km down the road.
If I had sense, I'd have moved slowly myself to wheel the bike out of the way and then check, rather than worrying about everyone around me and driving off with a potentially damaged bike or damaged body.

Ask anyone who cycles anywhere if they've ever had an accident. Practically all of them will say their first instinct was to check if their bike was ok. They could have 3 missing fingers and an eye hanging out of its socket, and their immediate concern will be for their bike.

I would rarely judge a person in an accident for their first instincts unless they did a runner. Adrenaline does different things to us all, makes us think about ourselves before anyone else.

On this particular incident, yes there are two numpties. The courier is overtaking at a junction, which is illegal. The pedestrian is not only crossing without looking, but also crossing within 5m of a pedestrian crossing.

However case law is on the courier's side and in the strictest sense the pedestrian should be held fully liable in this case. Whether that actually happens is another matter.

I know this junction well, the ped crossing is badly located, it should be much further up, almost beside the LUAS tracks.

Fingers!

I had a similar encounter with a Pedestrian in February. In trying to avoid the pedestrian, my bike fell against a BMW car.

Gardai were called. They turned up 90 minutes later.

Pedestrian first tried to leave scene. I stopped him. Then Pedestrian told the driver of the BMW, and me, and the gardai that he was responsible for the whole thing. Pedestrian said he was in a hurry, was going on vacation etc.

Gardai told me that night that I had nothing to worry about and that they would call me in a few days to get a statement.

I phoned Liberty Insurance, gave details. They phoned me back and told me that as pedestrians don't have insurance, the entire claim would go through my insurance. My insurance had to fix the BMW car, and my bike. Liberty told me I could take a civil case myself against the pedestrian but that they would not be involved or support me with same and that my no claims bonus was gone 'like it or not'.

Gardai told me some days later that there was little they could do about the pedestrian. They went as far as to argue I shouldn't have been filtering and that they would seek to bring charges of careless driving against me if I wished to make a statement against the pedestrian.

KTR1C

Fingers! wrote: »

I had a similar encounter with a Pedestrian in February. In trying to avoid the pedestrian, my bike fell against a BMW car.

Gardai were called. They turned up 90 minutes later.

Pedestrian first tried to leave scene. I stopped him. Then Pedestrian told the driver of the BMW, and me, and the gardai that he was responsible for the whole thing. Pedestrian said he was in a hurry, was going on vacation etc.

Gardai told me that night that I had nothing to worry about and that they would call me in a few days to get a statement.

I phoned Liberty Insurance, gave details. They phoned me back and told me that as pedestrians don't have insurance, the entire claim would go through my insurance. My insurance had to fix the BMW car, and my bike. Liberty told me I could take a civil case myself against the pedestrian but that they would not be involved or support me with same and that my no claims bonus was gone 'like it or not'.

Gardai told me some days later that there was little they could do about the pedestrian. They went as far as to argue I shouldn't have been filtering and that they would seek to bring charges of careless driving against me if I wished to make a statement against the pedestrian.

So pedestrians can do what they like, cause RTA's and have zero consequences ???

seamus

It's more a case that in the normal course of things, the BMW would "sue" the bike, who in turn would "sue" the pedestrian, and the insurance companies sort it all out.

However, as the ped has no insurance, it's a case that the BMW claims from the bike, and the bike's insurance company isn't bothered chasing the pedestrian in court, so just pays out instead.

The bike still has the option of taking a civil case against the pedestrian, but without any assistance from anyone else.

Fingers!

seamus wrote: »

It's more a case that in the normal course of things, the BMW would "sue" the bike, who in turn would "sue" the pedestrian, and the insurance companies sort it all out.

However, as the ped has no insurance, it's a case that the BMW claims from the bike, and the bike's insurance company isn't bothered chasing the pedestrian in court, so just pays out instead.

The bike still has the option of taking a civil case against the pedestrian, but without any assistance from anyone else.

Correct.

Too much effort for insurance company. They asked many times if the pedestrian was hit/injured or if ped was likely to sue. Once the answer to that was No, they just wanted the case closed.

It was a few days before my insurance renewal too, had quote of €386 and that went up to €760 :mad:

Fingers!

First thing I did was kill engine and pick up my bike - a normal enough reaction I think. Picked up bike, then turned to check on the pedestrian to find he was escaping

And yes I also agree with all above - OP, you should have stopped!

nc19

rat_race wrote:

I am a biker...and I consider myself more of a biker than someone who puts his bike before people in a crash. Would love to hear your reason for addressing your bike before people. Coolant is cheap. Oil drips back down into the sump.

A bike on its side while running will do damage very quickly as the oil is all to one side the oil pump may not pump the oil. Also another vehicle may hit it and do further damage. Also, it's 100% the pedestrians fault so in that case my bike is more important (yes I am an inconsiderate asshole. I know this very well) Also, the pedestrian has no insurance so who's gonna pay for my bike?? Any way I can possible minimise the damage by picking it up I will.

As I was lying on the road with a fractured hip 15 yrs ago after an idiot learner driver t-boned me my first thoughts were for my bike. I told the passer by who helped me to turn off the bike and pick it up. After words I asked him to call an ambulance.



If I was this particular biker the first thing I would have done is pick up the bike, move it off the road, go to the woman and ask her wtf she was doing and then after the initial shock wore off I would assess my myself for any injuries that might have me out of work unable to pay my bills and if there was any injuries this would inform my decision on how to proceed with my interaction with the woman.


You can take your hippy dippy love everyone bollixoligy and...........

I look out for my child first, my wife second and then my extended family after that. Everyone else can fug off in general. I reserve the right to change this attitude depending on how much sleep I've had.

nc19

rat_race wrote:

Also who gives a sh1t who was right or wrong? Is that supposed to influence your priorities over people versus machine?

When it's my machine, yes.

Max Headroom

Reading some replies i'm confused why youre having a go at the OP...it is clear (to me anyways) that there were enough people/witnesses on the scene, they were both on their feet as the lights changed, the fact he attended to the bike first was probably due to the fact that the throttle was jammed open and instinct kicked in.....imo the fool in the silver jeep held back to let her cross without checking for the bike, he may have even waved her across....she was clearly in a hurry and not bothered using the crossing, but i think it was just wrong place wrong time for the biker....

Cienciano

nc19 wrote: »

Not a biker? If I go down for what ever reason the first thing I do is lift the bike. Same as every other biker I know.

Doesn't really matter if you're a biker or not. If I hit a car I'd go for the bike. Hit a pedestrian I'd definitely check them.

moc moc a moc

Savannah Raspy Notch wrote: »

I can't see why the OP didn't have the compassion to stop, it doesn't take too long to ask after everyone's welfare, offer a phone or witness details.

Regardless of the rights and wrongs of who is at fault its shameful to just f*ck off and not bother like the OP did.

The OP f*cked off without even a backwards glance.. For shame.

There were multiple witnesses present, some of whom went straight over to the two people involved. Unless OP is a trained medic, not much point in him adding to the crowd and blocking the road even further.

Pugzilla

Bikers are supposed to be rebellious devil may care hard men.

Too many sensitive souls in this thread.

arybvtcw0eolkf

Re. picking a bike up.. Its largely instinctive in my experience.

I was knocked from my motorbike by a cyclist back in 1992 (it may have been '95, who cares).. The asshole was cycling up the Quays against the flow of traffic and knocked me from the bike.

The little prick got up and f*cked off.

Not one person stopped to ask if I was ok, anyway first thing I done was pick up the bike and put it onto the footpath (it was a Kawasaki GT550) ~ I was taken to hospital and later learned I'd broken both my elbows and broke a wrist too.

Spent 11 months off work waiting on surgery for my fractured scaphoid fracture (wrist).

I'd never assume people getting up are ok, like I said they may need to use a phone or just get some reassurance that they're ok or witness details.

As a biker I'd never leave another biker down, but then not everyone who rides a motorbike is a biker either.

However the message on the video should be plain for all to see for both pedestrians and motorists, be aware and always look both ways.

A mate of mine, another courier had an accident on Haddington Road a few years back. Very similar to this one, but the pedestrian stepped out from between parked cars eating a sandwich, got knocked down, received a broken leg ~ and died later that evening from a blood clot caused by the accident (despite seemingly being ok apart from his broken leg).

nc19

Cienciano wrote:

Doesn't really matter if you're a biker or not. If I hit a car I'd go for the bike. Hit a pedestrian I'd definitely check them.

Different strokes

Greenmachine

I imagined something like that caused your friend years of trauma, regardless of whether he was responsible or not. I know I would be pretty ****ed up by it even if the pedestrian was 100% in the wrong.

Savannah Raspy Notch wrote: »

Re. picking a bike up.. Its largely instinctive in my experience.

I was knocked from my motorbike by a cyclist back in 1992 (it may have been '95, who cares).. The asshole was cycling up the Quays against the flow of traffic and knocked me from the bike.

The little prick got up and f*cked off.

Not one person stopped to ask if I was ok, anyway first thing I done was pick up the bike and put it onto the footpath (it was a Kawasaki GT550) ~ I was taken to hospital and later learned I'd broken both my elbows and broke a wrist too.

Spent 11 months off work waiting on surgery for my fractured scaphoid fracture (wrist).

I'd never assume people getting up are ok, like I said they may need to use a phone or just get some reassurance that they're ok or witness details.

As a biker I'd never leave another biker down, but then not everyone who rides a motorbike is a biker either.

However the message on the video should be plain for all to see for both pedestrians and motorists, be aware and always look both ways.

A mate of mine, another courier had an accident on Haddington Road a few years back. Very similar to this one, but the pedestrian stepped out from between parked cars eating a sandwich, got knocked down, received a broken leg ~ and died later that evening from a blood clot caused by the accident (despite seemingly being ok apart from his broken leg).

YurOK2

rat_race wrote: »

HOWEVER, what really pisses me off about this is how he gets up, and all he's worried about is his bike. I've seen so many videos like that. Turn your f*ck1ng ignition off, sure, but then see if the woman on the ground, that you just hit at 50km/h, is okay.

To be fair to the biker, he's a courier, his bike is his job, his job is his bike. He would've known from the impact that it wasn't a serious collision, the woman was getting to her feet before he even was so of course he's going to grab his bike.

I'm not familiar at all with that particular area and the light sequence isn't 100% clear from the video so it's hard to say whether the biker was breaking a red light as some people say and therefore hard to know who was at fault.

allroad

Every time I've been hit by a car or fallen off, my first instinct is to hit the kill switch and check the bike. Even the time I had multiple arm fractures (which weren't apparent until my second trip to casualty, because the pain was growing intense despite the ministrations of the so called doctor for the "bad sprain" during the first visit).
Having said that, I've never been unfortunate enough to hit a pedestrian. I'd like to think I would be more concerned about them than the bike.
On the issue of the OP, sorry mate but you had video footage which may have helped another biker. I would have made sure he could have contacted me. 2 minutes to give him your contact number may have saved him a lot of hassle.

biketard

YurOK2 wrote: »

I'm not familiar at all with that particular area and the light sequence isn't 100% clear from the video so it's hard to say whether the biker was breaking a red light as some people say and therefore hard to know who was at fault.

Just to clarify, I'm talking about the light right where the OP was waiting, not the light that the biker would've initially turned right. I assumed there was no issue there.