SpeedPlay

crashoveroid

Hi All

I have been contemplating the moving to speedplay. I have been using Time for the last 10 years. But with the new Expresso models and i am very unhappy with the cleats as they wear out in 8 weeks. As well the pedals only seem to last about a season before as they are non service able they are only fit or the bin.

Any advice on speedplay pedals and the best one to look at. Doing between 300 to 400k a week.

NCW13

crashoveroid wrote: »

Hi All

I have been contemplating the moving to speedplay. I have been using Time for the last 10 years. But with the new Expresso models and i am very unhappy with the cleats as they wear out in 8 weeks. As well the pedals only seem to last about a season before as they are non service able they are only fit or the bin.

Any advice on speedplay pedals and the best one to look at. Doing between 300 to 400k a week.

Hi,

Being using them for the past 13 years. Cleats last at least a season. I use the Zero Stainless model and the track Zero's. Started on the X Model and only moved to the Zero's as it limits the float. Reason I went to speedplays is that they are very easy on the knees and it is impossible (no doubt someone will contradict!) to accidentally pull your foot out. I had a bad experience with Look where I pulled my foot and ended up breaking my shoulder and collarbone.

Can't fault them.

Hope that helps.

dancrowley

I moved to Speedplay Zero from Shimano SPD-SL last year and never looked back.

Bespoke float (as NCW13 mentioned, very good for the knees), dual-sided pedal engagement, great ground clearance for cornering and easy maintenance (dry lube on cleats after every couple of rides and simple greasing every ~3000km for the pedals). Get the "coffee shop" cleat covers, which protects both them and you when you're off the bike grabbing the all-important and well-earned cuppa.

Borderfox

I'm still on old time pedals and using dmt Prisma 2 shoes. Probably will end up with speedplay especially with the new cleats

omri

Are these extremely uncomfortable to walk in - not that you want to walk in cycling shoes, but comparing to say look cleats ?

dancrowley

omri wrote: »

Are these extremely uncomfortable to walk in - not that you want to walk in cycling shoes, but comparing to say look cleats ?

As mentioned above, you can attach the "coffee shop" cleat covers for when you need to do some walking. I didn't find any remarkable difference between using these and the SPD-SLs, when it came to walking.

XtotheZ

moved from look to speedplay last summer. Love the complete adjustability of the cleats, feel very solid and locked in.

Borderfox

omri wrote: »

Are these extremely uncomfortable to walk in - not that you want to walk in cycling shoes, but comparing to say look cleats ?

http://www.speedplay.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=home.zerowalkablecleat

Lumen

I switched from Speedplays to Expressos recently after an interstitial period with SPD-SLs.

I like the idiot-proof engagement and relative cheapness of Expressos, although the cleat wear is ridiculous. It's not even from walking - my right (foot down) cleat wears much, much faster than my left, and I'm pretty sure I'm not hopping when off the bike. At €17.39 from Wiggle the cleats are cheap enough but I'm not sure I can stomach €60 a year or whatever on replacement cleats. If only they made a metal cleat...

Downsides of Speedplays are relative complicated install (two sets of screws, shims) and maintenance. SPD-SLs were so cheap and reliable at ~€20 a set I just used them until they stopped working and then took another set from the stack. Safety of clip-in is also not as good as Expressos but better than SPD-SL.

doozerie

I've been using Speedplay Zero's for about 5 years now. At this stage they are on two of my bikes and two of my wife's bikes. They get used regularly and in all weather conditions. I've had plenty of time to get familiar with their pros and cons. It's a very subjective assessment but in my opinion the cons outweigh the pros.

The qualified pros, in my opinion: they are light (but the cleats aren't), they are double-sided, they have variable float (if you really need/want it), low stack height and good ground clearance.

Qualified cons: they are *not* easy to maintain (depending on what you define as maintenance), they are expensive, their design is poor (my very subjective opinion) necessitating frequent and expensive maintenance (good replacement bearings are expensive), the cleats are expensive.

Re the float, very subjective this but I think the reputation these pedals have for almost unparalleled benefits for damaged knees is overblown. The float is different to any other pedals I've tried, and I've no doubt that it offers benefits to some people that few other pedals do, but there are so many factors involved in any injury that I don't think any single thing, pedal float or otherwise, can be endowed with the kind of magical benefit that you sometimes find touted in online discussions of these pedals. Can they help bad knees? They might well do. Are they the only pedals that might? Absolutely not. ...sorry, that particular myth that seems to surround these pedals is a particular bugbear of mine.

Something less subjective is whether these pedals are easy to maintain. In my view they are not. Greasing them after every 3,000km is only one of the recommendations/requirements, Speedplay actually recommend that you grease them after ever 3,000km, or after 3 months, or after *every* wet ride. Sure, pumping them with grease is not a big deal, but compared to most other pedals it's at least a pain in the neck when you factor in the number of wet rides you might do in a year.

And then consider how long the bearings last - not long, in my opinion. Pumping knackered bearings with grease makes the pedals continue to work, but at this price and this level of maintenance you should really want pedals that rise above "just work". The design makes for short-lived bearings, the outer bearing has to allow grease to be pumped through it so it can't have very effective seals by design. The spindle bearing basically has no seals so when water gets in, and it *will*, that bearing will degrade fast. There is a rubber o-ring on the inner side of the pedal to keep water out, but it's not very effective. Or more correctly, it can be very effective, it's very good at keeping water in there once it does get in (presumably that's why you are supposed to grease them after every wet ride) - I recently pumped grease into my wife's pedals several days after a wet ride and it blew a puddle of water out onto the floor.

In short, overall I consider these pedals over-priced and unless the cons include a significant one for you that you can't get from any other pedal, I'd look elsewhere.

Further mutterings from me in this thread.

doozerie

Lumen wrote: »

I switched from Speedplays to Expressos recently after an interstitial period with SPD-SLs.

As a matter of interest, which model of Xpresso are you using? I'm currently going through a (regular) spell of reconsidering whether I wish to persist with Speedplay and those look like an interesting alternative, accepting that the cleats sound frustrating.

crashoveroid, I'm interested to hear too which model of Xpresso you've found not to last. Re your question of which model of Speedplay to consider, I've only used the Zero's but they are available in various forms. From what I understand, the chromoly and stainless (axle) models are equivalent in terms of stiffness, the stainless model just adds rust resistance. I've seen some suggestions online that the bearings differ between the models but having used both chromoly and stainless I've seen no evidence of that. They also sell a titanium model for ludicrous money and it comes with a rider weight limit - even as a lightweight I'd be wary of any pedal which comes with a weigh limit attached, though it's a moot point since there is no way I'd pay their price tag anyway.

If you do end up getting Speedplay, my advice is to grease them on day one, and then grease them regularly after that - at least once a month, and more often if the weather is crap. Having said that, I often go by feel with this, if I feel some resistance from the (grease in the) pedal when I turn it by hand then I tend not to re-grease it - greasing them is a relatively simple task, but it's fiddly (some of my pedals resist the grease, which pushes the end-cap out at which point it becomes a wrestling match between me and the end-cap) and messy (wipe away copious amounts of old grease), so I avoid it when I can. The Speedplay gun and recommended grease are horribly expensive, and unnecessary, I must update that other thread I linked to above with one alternative.

crashoveroid

doozerie wrote: »

As a matter of interest, which model of Xpresso are you using? I'm currently going through a (regular) spell of reconsidering whether I wish to persist with Speedplay and those look like an interesting alternative, accepting that the cleats sound frustrating.

crashoveroid, I'm interested to hear too which model of Xpresso you've found not to last. Re your question of which model of Speedplay to consider, I've only used the Zero's but they are available in various forms. From what I understand, the chromoly and stainless (axle) models are equivalent in terms of stiffness, the stainless model just adds rust resistance. I've seen some suggestions online that the bearings differ between the models but having used both chromoly and stainless I've seen no evidence of that. They also sell a titanium model for ludicrous money and it comes with a rider weight limit - even as a lightweight I'd be wary of any pedal which comes with a weigh limit attached, though it's a moot point since there is no way I'd pay their price tag anyway.

If you do end up getting Speedplay, my advice is to grease them on day one, and then grease them regularly after that - at least once a month, and more often if the weather is crap. Having said that, I often go by feel with this, if I feel some resistance from the (grease in the) pedal when I turn it by hand then I tend not to re-grease it - greasing them is a relatively simple task, but it's fiddly (some of my pedals resist the grease, which pushes the end-cap out at which point it becomes a wrestling match between me and the end-cap) and messy (wipe away copious amounts of old grease), so I avoid it when I can. The Speedplay gun and recommended grease are horribly expensive, and unnecessary, I must update that other thread I linked to above with one alternative.

Hi

I have had a few different models of them i had the 4 6 8 and 10. Some varied on life the 6 being the worst only lasted 4 months before the bearings were knackered.

the cleats were really frustrating part i do as little walking as possible but 6 to 8 weeks later and new pair needed.

I pulled the trigger on the pedals over the weekend and will see how they will go. Got the Zeros looks like its easier to get a new pair rather then replace parts.

Lumen

crashoveroid wrote: »

the cleats were really frustrating part i do as little walking as possible but 6 to 8 weeks later and new pair needed.

Have you tried just cutting off the rubber bits that fall apart? The internet says this works.

Post from A&E if it doesn't work out.

AIR-AUSSIE

doozerie wrote: »

As a matter of interest, which model of Xpresso are you using? I'm currently going through a (regular) spell of reconsidering whether I wish to persist with Speedplay and those look like an interesting alternative, accepting that the cleats sound frustrating.

crashoveroid, I'm interested to hear too which model of Xpresso you've found not to last. Re your question of which model of Speedplay to consider, I've only used the Zero's but they are available in various forms. From what I understand, the chromoly and stainless (axle) models are equivalent in terms of stiffness, the stainless model just adds rust resistance. I've seen some suggestions online that the bearings differ between the models but having used both chromoly and stainless I've seen no evidence of that. They also sell a titanium model for ludicrous money and it comes with a rider weight limit - even as a lightweight I'd be wary of any pedal which comes with a weigh limit attached, though it's a moot point since there is no way I'd pay their price tag anyway.

If you do end up getting Speedplay, my advice is to grease them on day one, and then grease them regularly after that - at least once a month, and more often if the weather is crap. Having said that, I often go by feel with this, if I feel some resistance from the (grease in the) pedal when I turn it by hand then I tend not to re-grease it - greasing them is a relatively simple task, but it's fiddly (some of my pedals resist the grease, which pushes the end-cap out at which point it becomes a wrestling match between me and the end-cap) and messy (wipe away copious amounts of old grease), so I avoid it when I can. The Speedplay gun and recommended grease are horribly expensive, and unnecessary, I must update that other thread I linked to above with one alternative.

Do you still use Speedplays as your main pedals? Or has the negatives you list mean you've changed back to another?

I have been contemplating upgrading from SPD SLs for a while, thinking either ultegra or speedplays. I have always been keen to try Speedplays mainly as they're double-sided and their simpler aesthetics. However their price and their need for what seems like excessive maintenance has made me hesitant.

Lumen

doozerie wrote: »

As a matter of interest, which model of Xpresso are you using? I'm currently going through a (regular) spell of reconsidering whether I wish to persist with Speedplay and those look like an interesting alternative, accepting that the cleats sound frustrating.

Xpresso 4.

dancrowley

AIR-AUSSIE wrote: »

Do you still use Speedplays as your main pedals? Or has the negatives you list mean you've changed back to another?

I have been contemplating upgrading from SPD SLs for a while, thinking either ultegra or speedplays. I have always been keen to try Speedplays mainly as they're double-sided and their simpler aesthetics. However their price and their need for what seems like excessive maintenance has made me hesitant.

I ride in a very dusty environment and have only greased these guys once since owning them. There's nothing excessive about the required maintenance. The pros far outweigh the cons. I've suggested Zeroes to my buddies out here; the 2 guys who have taken to using them can't praise them enough. The price for the chromoly model, which includes cleats, is fantastic. The cleats will last a long time, if cared for.

doozerie

AIR-AUSSIE wrote: »

Do you still use Speedplays as your main pedals? Or has the negatives you list mean you've changed back to another?

Yes, I'm still using them. When they work well I like them a lot, when they cause grief I dislike them a lot, but at this stage I have invested so much in them that it would hurt even more to have to spend more money to replace them.

The maintenance is a hassle - regular greasing at a minimum and a willingness to actually dismantle them to replace bearings as needed - but if you are up for it then it's by no means the end of the world. Their marketing annoys me though, as far as I am concerned the design compromises bearing longevity and reliability to achieve tiny pedals but they'd have you believe that their pedal is some kind of breakthrough amongst pedals, as if there is no compromise whatsoever and other pedal manufacturers simply didn't have their "vision". Any company will always heap praise on their own product, that goes without saying of course, but Speedplay as a company come across to me as smug gits, they bring out my inner crank

If you do go for them, then take a look in the other thread I linked to above re servicing them. I no longer use the recommended Speedplay grease or gun, I'm using *much* cheaper alternatives that I consider much better.

doozerie

crashoveroid wrote: »

I pulled the trigger on the pedals over the weekend and will see how they will go. Got the Zeros looks like its easier to get a new pair rather then replace parts.

The process of replacing the parts is not as arduous as it sounds. Speedplay would have you believe it can't be done, they certainly used to claim in their marketing guff that the spindle bearing is bonded to the pedal body, but that's rubbish (and another source of annoyance with the company for me).

As expensive as decent replacement bearings are, they are far cheaper than buying replacement pedals, or replacement bodies with the spindle bearing installed (which are the best part of the price of a new set of pedals anyway, especially when they don't even come with cleats while new pedals do).

ardcat

I've used Speedplays for 15 years. 3 years X series and Zeros since then. Around 6000-8000km per annum all weathers. Used to rotate cleats every year. Track ones onto summer bike and those onto winter one. Bought Keep On Kovers 2 years ago and haven't changed the cleats since. Winter ones will probably get replaced by summer ones in November. Speedplay have created a new cleat like the Keep on Kovers but haven't tried them.

Maintenance? I've only greased them when they got a little rough. Take the circlip out, clean and regrease. I lost one spindle from a pair bought in 2005 when the needle rollers seized. The butterflies that engage wear first before the bearings causing the foot to rock so usually a new body is required. I've bought 4 bodies 2 I used to convert the X series to Track Zeros and 2 others that I'm now about to use up the last one. I put ceramic bearings in these track ones and only lube with oil and no issues. I've spare bearings and have yet to use them.

The stainless butterflies were purchasable as spare parts but Speedplay stopped as they said the needle bearing was worn out at the same time and only sold body kits. Not happy with this as Doozerie has pointed out its only a little dearer to buy new pedals that come with cleats on this side of the world.

Speedplay are like any manufacturer and will hype their product to get it to the top of the heap. As far as their claims go a lot of them are actually correct and of benefit to cyclists. There's no self centring spring that tries to force the shoe and knee to a perfect centre if you want some float. My left foot is reasonably neutral but my right pronates quite a bit so the cleats are adjusted accordingly. Off season I allow a little float to give my knees a break in the cold weather. On season they're locked in. I don't know of another pedal that allows this without a spring. Also pedal spindles are available in 4 different lengths for those with more serious foot or fit problems. It is a pedal that older guys like myself have generated towards as it banishes years of niggly knee problems. I bought them originally on recommendations from older riders in the US.

Speedplays don't like wet sand like most pedals. If you have the misfortune of walking in it you mightn't get your foot out and it will quickly destroy the cleat if you don't clean the cleat spring. The Keep On Kovers keep walking around comfortable enough and prevent embarrassing falls on Spanish cafe stone floors.

TGD

Was there a link in this thread to a very neat and cheap greaser for speedplays? I've come back looking for it but can't find it - somebody posted a very good piece on replacing the bearings and I think it was in that.
Would appreciate that link again ...

doozerie

TGD wrote: »

Was there a link in this thread to a very neat and cheap greaser for speedplays? I've come back looking for it but can't find it - somebody posted a very good piece on replacing the bearings and I think it was in that.
Would appreciate that link again ...

This?

Borderfox

Do you use three or four hole shoes, I went back to time from look and got a set of DMT Prisma four hole shoes to minimise faffing around with cleat position. That's the big draw for my knees