My duties as a live in childminder - fair or not?

chinacup

So Im an Irish girl, just started working as a live in "aupair" as the girls wanted someone who spoke English. I get paid 120 a week this includes picking the girls up Mon-Thurs from school, preparing lunch for us and dinner for the whole family (me, mum + 2 daughters) on those days. 2 nights babysitting a week too usually on the weekend. The mother usually comes home by 7.30 Mon - Thurs. I help the girls with their homework and often two other girls will call over who I'll make lunch for too. I live rent free and can eat all their food.

Cleaning - now this is where I have a problem as its not that I mind doing the work but I think its excessive and cuts into time spent with the kids. I have to iron everything that comes out the washing machine which is around 1 load a day, hoover whole house once a week, mop the two bathrooms and large kitchen every week, polish and dust the whole house once a week, clean the toilets and bath once a week, keep the girls rooms tidy, hang up any washing on the line, keep the sitting room tidy, clean microwave and toaster out.

Now in saying this the mother is very house proud but basically there is no cleaning left for her to do apart from her room as far as I can see. She's a lovely woman but I'm not sure about the workload for 120 a week and I have a feeling I could be getting more if I looked around. What do other people think, from their own experience as an aupair/parent?

Also meant to say I have a couple of other gripes in that one of the girls is extremely defiant sometimes and apparently this has been a problem with previous aupairs according to the older daughter. To the point where in one day she refuses to put on her jacket in the pouring rain, won't do her homework, starts skipping inside knowing shes not allowed skipping right up to me when Im making the dinner and more .. sweet as pie then when the mum comes home. They are also allowed a LOT of sweets and chocolate and the mum expects me to get them to eat healthy!

Many thanks to anyones input on this 1!

If this is in Ireland you are not being paid the legal minimum rate, as it seems you work a lot of hours. You need to contact Citizens Advice for proper advice.

Laoislion8383

You are being robbed, given the work load and the bold child who is most probably sugared up from sweets I would put at least 200 a week not including bed and board I do know that can be considered a form of payment as my sister in law did some aupair work about 18 months ago but left due to the typical creepy husband, but she was paid 200 a week had Saturday n Sunday off and bed and board. Also if she was required to babysit on a weekend night it was extra 50 on top of her 200

lazygal

I have just organized a childminder to come to our home. We're paying an hourly rate and don't expect housework done, apart from tidying the children's toy area and clearing away after meals. You are being exploited big time. You are not an au pair, you're a nanny and housekeeper and you could earn a lot more elsewhere.

chinacup

Thanks v much for your replies guys. Just to reiterate the pt that she is a v houseproud person I think she genuinely has a higher standard of cleanliness than your average person rather than she's trying to pull a fast 1. I'm usually quite a good judge of people & I think it could be that she doesn't realise its being unreasonable. In terms of the hours it is only a 4 day wk (+ 2 nights) & because I don't have to collect them til 1.30 I think the hours are okay? Sometimes shes back by 6.30, when I say "by" - 7.30 would be the latest.

My plan now this week is to see how much the cleaning cuts into my off hours and time spent with the kids as it will be the first one doing all the cleaning required. If its unmanageable I guess she needs to choose whether I clean her house or mind her kids! The younger 1 being defiant - again will give it another wk. At the moment I'll put it down to new childminder = testing boundaries! Hopefully I'll get the formula right but atm its v difficult as I feel I'm not familiar enough with them to be too strict. I'm glad that my questioning this is justified.

bbsrs

120 per week for all that without minding the kids

pwurple

You are live in? So, bed and board? And the 4 days seem ok starting at 1:30.

We have an aupair. I'll give you an idea of what her hours are.

She minds our two girls two full days from 8am to 6pm. She makes their lunch and snacks these days. I make dinner when I get home.
She also looks after them two afternoons per week, picks them up from the creche... 2pm to 6pm. She makes dinner these days. (I have the stuff prepped and in the fridge, so it's "stick this in oven at this time please"). She babysits once a fortnight.

She cleans her own room/bathroom and tidies up after the children (or gets them to do it, which I prefer! My 4 year old does the hoovering around here.). I have a cleaner who comes in once a week to do floors, oven, bathrooms and ironing.

I think your money is probably about right, but the cleaning is excessive. Suggest a cleaner, or engage the child in it? (Not the ironing obviously)

amdublin

I agree with all the others that the cleaning is excessive. Did she hire you as an automated lair/childminder or a cleaner who minds the children?

Just wondering though we're all your duties not discussed in advance?
It might be difficult to chang if you already agreed to it?

chinacup

amdublin wrote: »

I agree with all the others that the cleaning is excessive. Did she hire you as an automated lair/childminder or a cleaner who minds the children?

Just wondering though we're all your duties not discussed in advance?
It might be difficult to chang if you already agreed to it?

This is the problem I had suggested a contract to which she said oh it doesn't have to be anything formal like that and she mentioned cleaning before I agreed to move in but she didn't drop this bombshell on me until 2 weeks in (Friday!)

chinacup

chinacup wrote: »

This is the problem I had suggested a contract to which she said oh it doesn't have to be anything formal like that and she mentioned cleaning before I agreed to move in but she didn't drop this bombshell on me until 2 weeks in (Friday!)

She's taking advantage. If you are able to, have a chat. Otherwise, I'd be looking elsewhere. You deserve better. Let her walk on you now and that's the way it will be. Stand up for yourself. Good Luck.

Howjoe1

It's basically slave labour in the year 2015.

It always amazes me how parents who get the benefit of their children being minded safely equate the lowest possible hourly rate of pay (i.e. below the min hourly rate) as being a fair reward. Would they work for the same rate?

galljga1

I would pay a lot more for the services you provide (not a job offer, just a comment). I am a widower with two kids. I have taken a few years off, probably go back to work within the next year (if someone gives me a job). When I was working last, I tried to get a live in minder but once they heard I was a widower, interest waned. I ended up paying a combination of three women over 600 euro a week to cover for my working day. Babysitting was extra.
As a matter of interest, what location are you talking about?

LilMrsDahamsta

Our au pair minds 3 small children 4 mornings a week 7-2, and the baby only 1 morning. Her job is to play with the kids, and to feed, cloth and toilet them while she has them. She does no housework or babysitting. She is free every day from 2pm until 7am the following morning, and all weekend, including bank holidays (for which she is paid). She is also paid €120, with full board and I do all her laundry for her. Any additional day hours are €3/hr. But she is also /learning/ English from us - we actively help with vocab, grammar and have basic conversations about topics so she can learn - and there is an additional value to that for her.

€120/WK for the hours and work you are doing, when you are not learning anything from the experience, seems very little to be honest.

Geniass

She's very houseproud? We'd all be very houseproud if we had somebody else doing the work at very good rates.

You should separate your duties.

How many hours Cleaning, ironing, babysitting at weekends, child minding (helping with homework)?

For example, if you paid someone for ironing it usually comes to approx €0.50 to €1 per shirt.

Babysitters charge at least €10 per hour (and you'd be lucky).

Cleaners charge approx €12 to €15 per hour.

Assume the 1.30 pm to 7.30 pm is at €8.65 (assuming over 16)

You are getting €120 per week into your hand. Plus room and board. It depends on where you are living to see how much that is worth. Maybe €150 per week. So you are earning approx €270 per week. You're earning approx €14,500 (before tax) per year from your au pair work (assuming you are living in Ireland).

If you add up all your various hours at the above costings how does it compare to €270 per week?

SF12

I am "houseproud" in the sense that that is the level of cleaning I would do myself once a week. Well, bar the ironing, I don't have time to do that.

Can I ask you something - are you in Ireland? You aren't really an aupair then, if you are - because aren't au pairs girls who come to learn english, hence the usual rate of 150eur a week? Isn't the understanding that they do light housework and childminding, so they can learn english? You're more of a housekeeper/nanny? That's how it seems to me?

I've looked into cleaners - 15-20eur an hour around us, and I'd expect the house to be done to that level you're describing in 2-2.5 hours easy. Ironing is another ball game totally. That would be more money. Our childminder is 150eur a week for 5 full days with 1 child, and she doesn't come to our house - and that's a very good rate.

So my conclusion would be that - yes, you are being taken advantage of.

highly1111

chinacup wrote: »

So Im an Irish girl, just started working as a live in "aupair" as the girls wanted someone who spoke English. I get paid 120 a week this includes picking the girls up Mon-Thurs from school, preparing lunch for us and dinner for the whole family (me, mum + 2 daughters) on those days. 2 nights babysitting a week too usually on the weekend. The mother usually comes home by 7.30 Mon - Thurs. I help the girls with their homework and often two other girls will call over who I'll make lunch for too. I live rent free and can eat all their food.

Cleaning - now this is where I have a problem as its not that I mind doing the work but I think its excessive and cuts into time spent with the kids. I have to iron everything that comes out the washing machine which is around 1 load a day, hoover whole house once a week, mop the two bathrooms and large kitchen every week, polish and dust the whole house once a week, clean the toilets and bath once a week, keep the girls rooms tidy, hang up any washing on the line, keep the sitting room tidy, clean microwave and toaster out.

Now in saying this the mother is very house proud but basically there is no cleaning left for her to do apart from her room as far as I can see. She's a lovely woman but I'm not sure about the workload for 120 a week and I have a feeling I could be getting more if I looked around. What do other people think, from their own experience as an aupair/parent?

Also meant to say I have a couple of other gripes in that one of the girls is extremely defiant sometimes and apparently this has been a problem with previous aupairs according to the older daughter. To the point where in one day she refuses to put on her jacket in the pouring rain, won't do her homework, starts skipping inside knowing shes not allowed skipping right up to me when Im making the dinner and more .. sweet as pie then when the mum comes home. They are also allowed a LOT of sweets and chocolate and the mum expects me to get them to eat healthy!

Many thanks to anyones input on this 1!

This is insane!! Wow. You are seriously been mistreated. We have an au pair and she does as follows:

works 8-4 three days a week and 8-2 two days a week. She has the 2 year old all 5 mornings, the 3 year old 4 morning and then the 3 children from 1pm. She also babysits on a Thursday night from 8pm (after they are all in bed). She is off all weekends and all other times. She feeds the children a large lunch (dinner at lunchtime - but pasta 99% of the time) and cleans up after that. I do breakfast and their evening supper. I make the family meal for the 3 adults (i.e. my husband and her and me) - she doesn't do any laundry except her own, any cleaning except her own room. However, she does tidy up the living room, playroom and kitchen before I come up - but picking up toys - no heavy stuff is what I mean. We pay €130 a week and she has her own large room in the attic conversion with an ensuite. Anyway, I'm a firm believer that if she's happy, the children will be happy and we're happy. I would hate for her to be doing the ironing instead of at the park for example. I would take this angle with the mother. but the cleaning and ironing she is expecting of you is slave labour.

Moonbeam

I was reminded of this article - http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/livein-au-pairs-paid-2-an-hour-in-slave-wages-31011424.html

As you are working in their house you are entitled to minimum wage and they should be paying your PRSI ,it is not the same as an au pair coming here to learn the language and live as part of the family.

tipparetops

highly1111 wrote: »

This is insane!! Wow. You are seriously been mistreated. We have an au pair and she does as follows:

works 8-4 three days a week and 8-2 two days a week. She has the 2 year old all 5 mornings, the 3 year old 4 morning and then the 3 children from 1pm. She also babysits on a Thursday night from 8pm (after they are all in bed). She is off all weekends and all other times. She feeds the children a large lunch (dinner at lunchtime - but pasta 99% of the time) and cleans up after that. I do breakfast and their evening supper. I make the family meal for the 3 adults (i.e. my husband and her and me) - she doesn't do any laundry except her own, any cleaning except her own room. However, she does tidy up the living room, playroom and kitchen before I come up - but picking up toys - no heavy stuff is what I mean. We pay €130 a week and she has her own large room in the attic conversion with an ensuite. Anyway, I'm a firm believer that if she's happy, the children will be happy and we're happy. I would hate for her to be doing the ironing instead of at the park for example. I would take this angle with the mother. but the cleaning and ironing she is expecting of you is slave labour.

I agree and you are seriously underpaying yours.
Your comment regards slavery is apt.

http://www.aupairireland.ie/blog/au-pair-wages-au-pair-costs/187

Traditionally, the role of the live-in au pair involves light household work, and a 20 hour work week, for this you can expect to pay your au pair between €80 and €120.

If your au pair works more than a 20 hour week, you might consider paying a salary proportional to the extra duties and hours they are working. So for example, if you expect your au pair to work a 25 hour week, a wage proportional to that standard au pair wage would work out roughly between €115 and €155.

Any time spent working outside standard working hours and duties, for example babysitting, is paid at a rate best decided between the au pair and the host family. As a guide, we normally see those extra duties being paid between €6 and €8 per hour.

So, as an average, an au pair should be paid @ €5 per hour they are expected to be in the house and working. Ironically, a quick read of the European Agreement on Au Pair Placement shows that even this blog has no problem advertising for "full time" au pairs and ridiculously low "salaries".

https://rm.coe.int/CoERMPublicCommonSearchServices/DisplayDCTMContent?documentId=0900001680072303

OP, you are not an "Au pair", however your "host" family want to dress it up.

sillysocks

Spotted this this morning,

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/au-pairs-are-being-severely-exploited-334477.html

Geniass

sillysocks wrote: »

Spotted this this morning,

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/au-pairs-are-being-severely-exploited-334477.html

Just to add... http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/0605/706183-au-pair-employment-breach/

The OP has gone very quiet. I hope she didn't make her situation too recognisable.

chinacup

Sorry for the lack of response I was waiting to see how things panned out. I had a chat with her, as after posting this thread and asking around I had enough to go on to feel comfortable doing so. Thankfully she was very receptive and lovely and we've come to what I think is a clearer and fairer agreement. Overall I'm quite happy here now and although the cleaning is more than I'm used to its very manageable. She is also going to be very fair about time off and other things, so it pays to negotiate! Thanks again to everyone for their input.

Playboy

Um you are an au-pair not a cleaner. If she wants cleaning to be done then she needs to do it herself or hire a cleaner. Cleaning up after the kids when you are looking after sounds sensible but anything outside of that is taking the pi**.

Moonbeam

Playboy wrote: »

Um you are an au-pair not a cleaner. If she wants cleaning to be done then she needs to do it herself or hire a cleaner. Cleaning up after the kids when you are looking after sounds sensible but anything outside of that is taking the pi**.

She isn't an au-pair either.
She is a live in childminder.

Paddy Cow

Moonbeam wrote: »

She isn't an au-pair either.
She is a live in childminder.

The title is misleading. She says in her opening sentence that she is an "au pair". She is being paid an au pair wage of €120, but was expected to do a lot more work than that. She apparently sorted it out with her employer and I hope this is the case, as the amount of work she was expected to do was unfair.

I don't know many childminders, live in or otherwise who would look after kids and clean the house for €120. It's scandalous what the woman was expecting.

Elliottsmum79

Paddy Cow wrote: »

The title is misleading. She says in her opening sentence that she is an "au pair". She is being paid an au pair wage of €120, but was expected to do a lot more work than that. She apparently sorted it out with her employer and I hope this is the case, as the amount of work she was expected to do was unfair.

I don't know many childminders, live in or otherwise who would look after kids and clean the house for €120. It's scandalous what the woman was expecting.

Competely agreed. Au pair wages for a real job. An au pair was orignally acultural exchange programme, now its a generic term for parying someone less than minimum wage. If this is a JOB it should be paid as as job. Do you have a contract/written agreement? Please get some legal advice, this is the modern form of indentured labour. Dont accept it.

LegacyUser

Elliottsmum79 wrote: »

Competely agreed. Au pair wages for a real job. An au pair was orignally acultural exchange programme, now its a generic term for parying someone less than minimum wage. If this is a JOB it should be paid as as job. Do you have a contract/written agreement? Please get some legal advice, this is the modern form of indentured labour. Dont accept it.

Guys I have to agree here too I'm starting to think she knows exactly what she is up to. Today she said my 2 weeks holidays she promised is now just one week paid and that I might have to work during them! It's bad because I can't exactly get a similar job for the next two months & I need a cash in hand job to be able to get much needed government assistance with college in September. What to do?

catkit

Also remember that if you're being treated fairly (as an employee, being paid minimum wage) she should pay PRSI for you, so you get stamps towards your state pension and accrue rights to i.e. maternity leave and benefits down the line. Being off the books does affect you in other ways than just your salary.

tinkerbell

You might have to work during your holiday time now as well?
She's definitely exploiting you.

chinacup

Update - leaving this job next Friday. The boss wasn't willing to compromise on the current situation. So now to find a new job and place for the remainder of summer! She had started coming home late most evenings as well as me working 35hr + week with the girls off school and no extra pay. The atmosphere in the house was one of stress and I really wasn't happy there so although this is less than ideal I'm very glad to be leaving.

Ruby31

chinacup wrote: »

Update - leaving this job next Friday. The boss wasn't willing to compromise on the current situation. So now to find a new job and place for the remainder of summer! She had started coming home late most evenings as well as me working 35hr + week with the girls off school and no extra pay. The atmosphere in the house was one of stress and I really wasn't happy there so although this is less than ideal I'm very glad to be leaving.

Best of luck finding a new job. You are dead right to resign from your current job.

lazygal

chinacup wrote: »

Update - leaving this job next Friday. The boss wasn't willing to compromise on the current situation. So now to find a new job and place for the remainder of summer! She had started coming home late most evenings as well as me working 35hr + week with the girls off school and no extra pay. The atmosphere in the house was one of stress and I really wasn't happy there so although this is less than ideal I'm very glad to be leaving.

You should contact some nanny agencies and look for work that way. At least there would be a lot more transparancy. The situation you were in was total exploitation.

chinacup

lazygal wrote: »

You should contact some nanny agencies and look for work that way. At least there would be a lot more transparancy. The situation you were in was total exploitation.

Great idea, thanks. Hadn't considered those.

Elliottsmum79

catkit wrote: »

Also remember that if you're being treated fairly (as an employee, being paid minimum wage) she should pay PRSI for you, so you get stamps towards your state pension and accrue rights to i.e. maternity leave and benefits down the line. Being off the books does affect you in other ways than just your salary.

Totally agreed. Check out the limits for grants etc. Black economy cuts both ways....Meanwhile best of luck with the search.