BBC Collusion Allegations

Maybe I missed the thread that was already started. Otherwise everyone should watch this.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b05x8gzs/panorama-britains-secret-terror-deals

It's an episode of Panorama that was just shown across the UK, which make a nice change. All over Britain they saw what their country was up to.

If anyone can post a link to the full episode that everyone can see then have at it. It's so important that everyone should see this.

Smiles35

That links showing up as UK only Button. Here's a youtube promo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ogJ7ZmyFlOo

Dozen Wicked Words

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Maybe I missed the thread that was already started. Otherwise everyone should watch this.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b05x8gzs/panorama-britains-secret-terror-deals

It's an episode of Panorama that was just shown across the UK, which make a nice change. All over Britain they saw what their country was up to.

If anyone can post a link to the full episode that everyone can see then have at it. It's so important that everyone should see this.

Need to bypass regional restrictions to watch it which is easy enough but can't be discussed on boards. What makes a nice change, didn't understand that bit?

I would never suggest that that people should try to bypass a way of watching that.


I saw this episode of Panorama on BBC1 London which delighted me. The whole of the UK was shown it tonight. Kingsmill, The Jackal, all the rest. All of Britain saw this tonight and maybe it'll be like Hillsborough that they'll realise that their state, their intelligence services, that their armed services were setting up civilians and people in pubs and people in bookies to be mown down as they did their daily business.

kneemos

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I would never suggest that that people should try to bypass a way of watching that.


I saw this episode of Panorama on BBC1 London which delighted me. The whole of the UK was shown it tonight. Kingsmill, The Jackal, all the rest. All of Britain saw this tonight and maybe it'll be like Hillsborough that they'll realise that their state, their intelligence services, that their armed services were setting up civilians and people in pubs and people in bookies to be mown down as they did their daily business.

Might be wrong but I'd doubt many will care.

MathDebater

Feck off

There were dirty tricks used in the conflict of the 70s and 80s by all sides? People lied?

Between well aired allegations such as the murder of Pat Finucane, the shoot to kill policy first revealed over 20 years ago, the Gibraltar Three, Gerry Adams and his non involvement in the IRA, Liam Adams sauntering from kiddy centre to kiddy centre with perfectly intact kneecaps so on, if anyone doesn't think things were very dirty on all sides up there and the penny only dropped last night, they are utter clowns. The OP might be shocked, but there was even collusion between Republican and Loyalist terrorists. It was even called the Dirty War for those who still didn't realise it was...well...dirty.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

I would never suggest that that people should try to bypass a way of watching that.

The only corner of the internet where anyone would ever care about the BBC who give their content for free to millions online.

Ahhhhh, apathy all over already. Wish I could say I was disappointed but I can't be arsed.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Ahhhhh, apathy all over already. Wish I could say I was disappointed but I can't be arsed.

Who is apathetic?

It is utterly outrageous. It is outrageous that politicians in Britain and, worse for us, in our own Dail, were involved in appalling atrocities, the dogs on the street know it, and they shrug their shoulders and lie. What is of course laughable is your "this is what the Brits did" idea as if they were alone or this is some shocking new revelation to you.

MathDebater

Deleted User wrote: »

Who is apathetic?

It is utterly outrageous. It is outrageous that politicians in Britain and, worse for us, in our own Dail, were involved in appalling atrocities, the dogs on the street know it, and they shrug their shoulders and lie. What is of course laughable is your "this is what the Brits did" idea as if they were alone or this is some shocking new revelation to you.

Cut inside and then whip it!

porsche959

Deleted User wrote: »

There were dirty tricks used in the conflict of the 70s and 80s by all sides? People lied?

Between well aired allegations such as the murder of Pat Finucane, the shoot to kill policy first revealed over 20 years ago, the Gibraltar Three, Gerry Adams and his non involvement in the IRA, Liam Adams sauntering from kiddy centre to kiddy centre with perfectly intact kneecaps so on, if anyone doesn't think things were very dirty on all sides up there and the penny only dropped last night, they are utter clowns. The OP might be shocked, but there was even collusion between Republican and Loyalist terrorists. It was even called the Dirty War for those who still didn't realise it was...well...dirty.

I find your reaction to the OP somewhat out of order to be frank.

The Sindo has 24% of the Sunday newspaper readership in this country. How many of that cohort have the type of knowledge you mention in your post?

kneemos

Atrocities,atrocities,apologies,inquiries,investigations,collusion,who knew what.

The North.

J Cheever Loophole

I haven't watched the show yet although I intend to. Other than providing specific examples though, I'm guessing that the crux of what it was revealing was pretty much already known - the widespread use of informers, their involvement in violence and murder and their ability to escape justice.

By saying the above, I don't want to sound indifferent - what happened was terrible and the families of the dead must feel a sense of outrage and betrayal - but I don't believe it is particularly shocking. Conor74 has referred to the Dirty War and there is probably a subliminal reference to Martin Dillon's excellent book of the same name. That book came out sometime in the early nineties and a read of it would leave no-one in any doubt about what was happening.

The question I would ask is that if these paramilitary organizations were so infiltrated by informers, at what point are the intelligence services effectively in control of what is happening and therefore are allowing the troubles to keep going and for what end? Was that point reached?

I often thought that a lot of the troubles (post 1970s) had reached a stalemate and was allowed to continue at an "acceptable level" by both sides.

LDN_Irish

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Who is apathetic?

It is utterly outrageous. It is outrageous that politicians in Britain and, worse for us, in our own Dail, were involved in appalling atrocities, the dogs on the street know it, and they shrug their shoulders and lie. What is of course laughable is your "this is what the Brits did" idea as if they were alone or this is some shocking new revelation to you.

Are you aware that most English people (I don't know if I can say British here because I haven't spent much time in Scotland or Wales) don't believe that any of this stuff happened as a matter of policy? Talk to any of them about this and the general consensus is that there were a few bad apples who incorrectly reacted to republican violence and sometimes hurt civilians whilst fighting the good fight. They have no idea what the reality was. So I've no idea why you're so incensed by the OP and Liam Adams and any other dirt we can dig up on the IRA really isn't relevant to the actions of the British government. Unless you actually believe that the PIRA were the legitimate government of the 32 County Republic in which case I can see why you'd be miffed. In most people's reality the British state has more of a duty of care for its citizens than a designated terrorist organisation.

LDN_Irish

LDN_Irish wrote: »

In most people's reality the British state has more of a duty of care for its citizens than a designated terrorist organisation.

If the allegations against Gerry Adams on one hand and "the British system in the 1980s" on the other are all correct, the can stand censured together. Only one of them is a current party leader in our Dail.

Nodin

MathDebater wrote: »

Cut inside and then whip it!

You've some point you're trying to communicate?

cj maxx

An aside , but is darragh mcintire related to donal mcintire ? They seem very alike

Are people taking the piss when they let on they can't see the difference between "dirty tactics" and the state sponsoring murder gangs who killed for fun? Providing weapons and protection to serial killers who targeted people for their religion is a bit different to targeting people who have a "military value".

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Are people taking the piss when they let on they can't see the difference between "dirty tactics" and the state sponsoring murder gangs who killed for fun? Providing weapons and protection to serial killers who targeted people for their religion is a bit different to targeting people who have a "military value".

Um.

Dirty tactics and the dirty war surely covers any extra judicial steps taken by legitimate security forces?

If it annoys you, perhaps we could refer to a dirty war and a dirtier war.