Visa requirement as SouthAfrican citizen

Jacovs

Looking to travel to Portugal at some point for a week's holiday. Not sure if I need a visa or not.

I am a South African citizen, but resident in Ireland. Usually this alone would require me to apply for a Schengen Visa, but I have a 3 year old that is Irish citizen and would be traveling with me, aswell as my Irish wife (though not sure that would make a difference). I am fairly certain ive read an article before that stated in the case of me traveling with my EU citizen child I do not need a visa (bar for the UK). Anyone know where to look online to confirm this? Ive had a quick google but not able to confirm or find anything to specifically disprove this.

Will ask the embassy at a later stage if this becomes a reality, but thought it might be good to know beforehand whats the deal. Far as I know its only 60e for a Schengen Visa if needed so no big deal.

Chimichangas

No replys with advice then?

How did you get on OP?
I am curious too on what visas are required for a non-eea travelling with an irish citizen. Either to Portugal or Spain.

Jacovs

I contacted someone, cant remember who.
Basically, because I have a visa for Ireland, which is not in the Schengen area, I need a visa to travel to Schengen area, even if with my EEA child.
If I was resident in the Schengen area and my child was a citizen of one of the Schengen area countries I would not have needed a visa to travel to a different Schengen country.
Also need a visa (different visa) if I want to travel to the UK (including Northern Ireland), but I already knew that.

Daisies

My friend is Irish and her husband is Malawian. As long as they are travellin together he does not need a visa.

Jacovs

Daisies wrote: »

My friend is Irish and her husband is Malawian. As long as they are travellin together he does not need a visa.

Would it be different if your EU visa is a spousal visa?
My visa is not spousal since we arent married yet. My visa is based on being a parent of an irish child.
I guess for the sake of 60 euro its not worth taking the risk, since an official department said I would need a visa.

Chimichangas

Daisies wrote: »

My friend is Irish and her husband is Malawian. As long as they are travellin together he does not need a visa.

I am going to guess that they first got a 'joining spouse/family' visa while being resident in a country other than Ireland where the friend is citizen and resident.

Jacovs wrote: »

Would it be different if your EU visa is a spousal visa?
My visa is not spousal since we arent married yet. My visa is based on being a parent of an irish child.
I guess for the sake of 60 euro its not worth taking the risk, since an official department said I would need a visa.

No, I dont think its different, its only if you activate and use your right to have family join you while resident in a different EU country to the one that you are a citizen of. Its a loophole that has me caught out. I cant activate my rights in the country where I am a citizen, because there are no barriers to movement here..??

And for you Jacovs, I wouldnt think you would need to pay for a visa anywhere in EU, while still needing one, as you are either joining family(child) or the partner of a citizen?

seagull

You need to apply for EU treaty rights. Once you have that, you can travel through the EU without a passport as long as you are travelling with the person that qualified you for treaty rights. Unfortunately, you don't have it by default.

Enjoy the queue at GNIB to get your treaty rights visa. Can you not qualify for Irish citizenship through marriage?

Jacovs

Chimichangas wrote: »

And for you Jacovs, I wouldnt think you would need to pay for a visa anywhere in EU, while still needing one, as you are either joining family(child) or the partner of a citizen?

I guess we will find out in a month or 2 whether ive to pay or not when I apply for a Schengen visa. Would be a bonus if not, but same effort involved. :pac:

seagull wrote: »

You need to apply for EU treaty rights. Once you have that, you can travel through the EU without a passport as long as you are travelling with the person that qualified you for treaty rights. Unfortunately, you don't have it by default.

Enjoy the queue at GNIB to get your treaty rights visa. Can you not qualify for Irish citizenship through marriage?

Going to guess you meant without visa, not without passport. I will look into that, might be useful if it gets me out of applying for a visa.

I was only at GNIB a month ago to renew my stamp 4. It was a bit ridiculous alright. Went one day, was told the system is down but to take a ticket and come back around 1pm to see if its back up. Went back around 1pm, system still down, told I can hang around but might not be back up or get served before they close at 9pm. Im like nah you're alright. They gave me a number then to ring at 4pm to see if it was back up, it wasnt.
Went in again a week later. Got there around 10am, took a ticket, hanged around town, went back and saw they only served a couple and im still about 100 places down the queue. Went off, came back around 4pm, waited to be served. Got served around 4:30pm, just for the woman to tell me im too early. Should come back a week before the visa expires, not 4 weeks before. Im like listen, its my second time in here, spent all day waiting, can we just do this now. She ended up processing it. But then had to wait another hour to get my passport and new GNIB card back.
The new GNIB card doesnt look as nice as the one I got 3 years ago.
And I wasnt impressed with paying 300 euro to renew either :mad:

Chimichangas

seagull wrote: »

You need to apply for EU treaty rights. Once you have that, you can travel through the EU without a passport as long as you are travelling with the person that qualified you for treaty rights. Unfortunately, you don't have it by default.

Enjoy the queue at GNIB to get your treaty rights visa. Can you not qualify for Irish citizenship through marriage?

You only get and exercise EU treaty rights if you are not a citizen of that EU country. If your partner is Irish, you can not exercise EU treaty rights for Ireland/in Ireland.
e.g. an irish peson could do it in France, and probably in the UK.

But yes Jacovs, if your family member/partner is EU citizen, you dont pay for a visa. Surprised you had to pay 300 to renew a gnib card as a partner family member of citizen?? Maybe your a family member but not the partner? Not sure that reasoning makes sense either though...?

Jacovs

Chimichangas wrote: »

You only get and exercise EU treaty rights if you are not a citizen of that EU country. If your partner is Irish, you can not exercise EU treaty rights for Ireland/in Ireland.
e.g. an irish peson could do it in France, and probably in the UK.

But yes Jacovs, if your family member/partner is EU citizen, you dont pay for a visa. Surprised you had to pay 300 to renew a gnib card as a partner family member of citizen?? Maybe your a family member but not the partner? Not sure that reasoning makes sense either though...?

So in theory we could move anywhere in EU just by exercising EU treaty rights?
My visa is based on me being a parent of an EU national. Paid 150 for first GNIB card and now 300 to renew. Married to my child's mom now though, they're both irish, so im not sure how/if that changes anything.

Chimichangas

Jacovs wrote: »

So in theory we could move anywhere in EU just by exercising EU treaty rights?
My visa is based on me being a parent of an EU national. Paid 150 for first GNIB card and now 300 to renew. Married to my child's mom now though, they're both irish, so im not sure how/if that changes anything.

Im not sure what difference being a parent to being the partner is. But I dont think u had to pay for the GNIB card, especially as a spouse of irish citizen. Maybe your visa should be updated to show you are spouse of eu national. Im still surprised there is a difference, but spouse Vs parent would be it I suppose. As in parents pay, but spouses dont.??
300euro?? OUCH!

But yes I believe your wife could travel within the EU and exercise her treaty rights, i.e. no barriers to travel, and get you a family visa.
But the loophole is she cant do that within Ireland, because there is no barrier to travel. Then as a spouse you dont pay for a visa to another EU country, but I am finding there can be small admin fees, but not a visa fee.

Jacovs

Chimichangas wrote: »

Im not sure what difference being a parent to being the partner is. But I dont think u had to pay for the GNIB card, especially as a spouse of irish citizen. Maybe your visa should be updated to show you are spouse of eu national. Im still surprised there is a difference, but spouse Vs parent would be it I suppose. As in parents pay, but spouses dont.??
300euro?? OUCH!

But yes I believe your wife could travel within the EU and exercise her treaty rights, i.e. no barriers to travel, and get you a family visa.
But the loophole is she cant do that within Ireland, because there is no barrier to travel. Then as a spouse you dont pay for a visa to another EU country, but I am finding there can be small admin fees, but not a visa fee.

At the time we werent married, about 2 months ago, but I did show them the letters from the HSE to show intention to marry, which we have done a week ago. Hopefully wont have to pay for the next one in 3 years.

That sounds pretty good.
In practice though how does it work? Like say we go to Portugal in february. Do I just rock up at the airport with my wife and child, passport and no visa and tell them no I dont need a visa, she's going to exercise her treaty rights once we get to immigration in Portugal? Or does she apply to the Portuguese embassy before we go?

Chimichangas

Jacovs wrote: »

At the time we werent married, about 2 months ago, but I did show them the letters from the HSE to show intention to marry, which we have done a week ago. Hopefully wont have to pay for the next one in 3 years.

That sounds pretty good.
In practice though how does it work? Like say we go to Portugal in february. Do I just rock up at the airport with my wife and child, passport and no visa and tell them no I dont need a visa, she's going to exercise her treaty rights once we get to immigration in Portugal? Or does she apply to the Portuguese embassy before we go?[/QUOTE

No, I think it is more if you/she were living/or moving/ maybe intending to move to the country.
For a holiday, you need a visa. Apply through the embassy. Different countries different time waits I think.
But was advised that it shouldnt take more than 4 weeks.

There is a site where you can ask the EU, or your wife can.
http://europa.eu/youreurope/advice/index_en.htm

They say about 4 weeks to get a visa to visit another country. Because it should be expedited as a spouse of a eu citizen... should be...