plagiarism

NeonNatural · 28-05-2015 1:15pm #1

Often in my answers for english and history i would write up my own essays with a mix of my writing and others from sample essays and such, however when my old teacher left for maternity leave i got a new one and she constantly criticizes me on taking anything and i mean anything from anywhere.

I just wanted to know is it alright if i do this and use these essays in my leaving cert?

AlfaJack · 28-05-2015 2:12pm

Depends how much you're taking out. Like the odd fancy sentence here and there I'm sure is fine but you don't want to be copying huge chunks word for word because the style of writing will be different to your own and the examiner may pick up on that :P

DarraghF197 · 28-05-2015 2:49pm

It's quite worrying that a chunk of my notes are just copied from several different sources online. The problem is is that if you type in any sentence or two just into Google search, the source of those notes will be found straight away. I'd imagine they'd be less respectful towards your work if they find out you just copied sentences. It's what I had planned for a couple of things, such as an introduction for jealousy. But I might change that now since I realise it's so easy to find out if you've copied the notes. Still, I'd recommend copying some bits, it can improve your language and cohesion a chunk with a couple of strong sentences found online!

spurious · 28-05-2015 3:42pm

The really big problem will come at college where you'll be hammered if you don't write your own work.

endacl · 28-05-2015 3:46pm

Not an issue. The lc is an exercise in memorising and reproducing.

Dr.. · 28-05-2015 4:36pm

Went to an intensive English course over the christmas break and got full analysis notes on my prescribed texts. They are well structured and really good notes. I mean im trying to add my own twist to it but is it copying? I did pay for the course and the notes so does that allow me to use the majority of it 'word for word', but worried about it going into LC next week and was just wondering what someone else's views are on this.

NeonNatural · 28-05-2015 6:55pm

Phew thank you for this, its quite a relief ..no thanks for the answer put i hope its true

luluzade · 28-05-2015 7:03pm

All my essays i just learned from the books and twas grand, as long as it's the correct information it doesn't matter, only place it matters in the LC is with the research project which obviously needs to be your own idea and referenced etc
don't stress over plagiarism now it'll be too stressful, just concentrate on getting the correct information down on paper, and learn how to do your own essays properly in college

sleepyheadh · 28-05-2015 7:06pm

absolutely, no need to worry about getting done for plagiarism in the leaving. Considering, you aren't using any material when you are writing the essay, and would thus be paraphrasing the source material, which is perfectly fine.

NeonNatural · 28-05-2015 7:09pm

sleepyheadh wrote: »

absolutely, no need to worry about getting done for plagiarism in the leaving. Considering, you aren't using any material when you are writing the essay, and would thus be paraphrasing the source material, which is perfectly fine.

Sorry, what do you mean ''Considering, you aren't using any material when you are writing the essay''

sleepyheadh · 28-05-2015 7:48pm

NeonNatural wrote: »

Sorry, what do you mean ''Considering, you aren't using any material when you are writing the essay''

Like in the LC exam, you don't have the reference text with you! At least you shouldn't haha..you aren't going to remember the quote verbatim, so you would be paraphrasing.

AllyBushell · 29-05-2015 12:34am

For the composing question in Paper 1, if you copy the plot from another book or movie, but change the details, could it be considered plagiarism?

endacl · 29-05-2015 1:00am

AllyBushell wrote: »

For the composing question in Paper 1, if you copy the plot from another book or movie, but change the details, could it be considered plagiarism?

Inspiration.

EoghanIRL · 29-05-2015 1:02am

AllyBushell wrote: »

For the composing question in Paper 1, if you copy the plot from another book or movie, but change the details, could it be considered plagiarism?

"Saving private Brian".
A1 quality right there

AllyBushell · 29-05-2015 2:25am

endacl wrote: »

Inspiration.

I guess so

EoghanIRL wrote: »

"Saving private Brian".
A1 quality right there

Did you do that for it?

Jolly Red Giant · 30-05-2015 1:56am

There is no such thing as plagarism in the LC exam - you can, however, get done for plagarism in the History Research Project.

spurious · 30-05-2015 1:10pm

In the event of what is called 'suspected copying' (papers with the exact same answers throughout, word for word), examiners are instructed to mark the paper(s) as normal but bring them to the attention of their Advising Examiner.

AllyBushell wrote: »

For the composing question in Paper 1, if you copy the plot from another book or movie, but change the details, could it be considered plagiarism?

I have a feeling this was mentioned in a Chief Examiner's report or marking scheme. I will have a look and post the link.

cathal545 · 30-05-2015 6:27pm

Me and my friend, we are both in the same class, basically have the same Robert Frost essay and Othello essay. Slight variation in essays between us but nothing significant. Possible that we will be docked marks since they are the same? Its only us two that have the same essays everyone else is different.Thanks

iago1 · 30-05-2015 7:08pm

cathal545 wrote: »

Me and my friend, we are both in the same class, basically have the same Robert Frost essay and Othello essay. Slight variation in essays between us but nothing significant. Possible that we will be docked marks since they are the same? Its only us two that have the same essays everyone else is different.Thanks

. No if there are only two of you then no, unless the examiner corrects them one after the other! Just sit away from each other and ye'll be grand!

spurious · 30-05-2015 7:40pm

spurious wrote: »

I have a feeling this was mentioned in a Chief Examiner's report or marking scheme. I will have a look and post the link.

Couldn't find the link, but the gist of it was that there would be some marks deducted but not many.

randylonghorn · 30-05-2015 8:37pm

cathal545 wrote: »

Me and my friend, we are both in the same class, basically have the same Robert Frost essay and Othello essay. Slight variation in essays between us but nothing significant. Possible that we will be docked marks since they are the same? Its only us two that have the same essays everyone else is different.Thanks

If people stopped learning off essays word for word, this issue wouldn't even arise.

Plus it usually means that they write the essay they have learned word for word on the day with "and this is why I think Frost is ......" tacked on at the end of every paragraph (even if the paragraph has nothing whatsoever to do with the question).

Far better and easier IMHO to get the *key points* into your head ... and also far easier to manipulate on the day when you actually see what the question requires. Learn quotes ofc which you can use to back up your points, and no harm to memorise a few nice phrases / sentences which you can use in most situations, but in my honest opinion attempting to learn off the "answer" to a question before you even see the question is counter-productive, especially in subjects like English or History.

SureYWouldntYa · 30-05-2015 11:55pm

Be careful learning off essays word for word that were given to you. Year before me, about 10 of them got 0 marks in their HL Irish essay because some story the teacher gave them fit one of the essay titles perfectly.

Few of them ended up repeating the LC, some just Irish.

It's not worth it overall, the marks you gain for the potential to get a 0

EoghanIRL · 31-05-2015 12:10am

SureYWouldntYa wrote: »

Be careful learning off essays word for word that were given to you. Year before me, about 10 of them got 0 marks in their HL Irish essay because some story the teacher gave them fit one of the essay titles perfectly.

Few of them ended up repeating the LC, some just Irish.

It's not worth it overall, the marks you gain for the potential to get a 0

I have my doubts about this..

sleepyheadh · 31-05-2015 12:12am

EoghanIRL wrote: »

I have my doubts about this..

Same, LC correctors would hardly been known for their thorough approach to correcting.

SureYWouldntYa · 31-05-2015 12:16am

EoghanIRL wrote: »

I have my doubts about this..

sleepyheadh wrote: »

Same, LC correctors would hardly been known for their thorough approach to correcting.

the same essay appeared quite a few times, if they're the strict type they'll cop it

sleepyheadh · 31-05-2015 12:22am

SureYWouldntYa wrote: »

the same essay appeared quite a few times, if they're the strict type they'll cop it

Chances of that happening is tiny, and lets not forget that most people correcting the level, are doing it solely for Coppers spending money.

EoghanIRL · 31-05-2015 12:25am

SureYWouldntYa wrote: »

the same essay appeared quite a few times, if they're the strict type they'll cop it

Did you make up the previous post?
I for one don't think it's true.

We all learned off the same Irish essays in my school. I'd say most grind school students have similar essays too. People learn sample essays from revision books etc..
If they think copying was occuring then they would check the seating plan that the examiners make at the start of the exams.

SureYWouldntYa · 31-05-2015 12:31am

EoghanIRL wrote: »

Did you make up the previous post?
I for one don't think it's true.

We all learned off the same Irish essays in my school. I'd say most grind school students have similar essays too. People learn sample essays from revision books etc..
If they think copying was occuring then they would check the seating plan that the examiners make at the start of the exams.

okay just saying I knew of a time people were punished for it

don't know of anyone in my year that were punished in subjects like English, History, French etc, but people were afraid in Irish because of what happened in the year above

people did go in with learned off essays, but they were essays that were their own that the teacher corrected and were told was A1 standard

randylonghorn · 31-05-2015 12:55am

sleepyheadh wrote: »

Same, LC correctors would hardly been known for their thorough approach to correcting.

sleepyheadh wrote: »

... and lets not forget that most people correcting the level, are doing it solely for Coppers spending money.

Having corrected myself in the past, I'd definitely take issue with both of those statements.

It probably applies to a few, just as there are correctors on the other hand who literally live and sleep the correcting process, and worry unduly about every little thing.

The big majority fall in the middle though, and try to do a good job without actually giving themselves ulcers over it. Most of them are teachers themselves, and would hope that whoever is correcting their students' papers would do likewise.

sleepyheadh · 31-05-2015 1:01am

randylonghorn wrote: »

Having corrected myself in the past, I'd definitely take issue with both of those statements.

It probably applies to a few, just as there are correctors on the other hand who literally live and sleep the correcting process, and worry unduly about every little thing.

The big majority fall in the middle though, and try to do a good job without actually giving themselves ulcers over it. Most of them are teachers themselves, and would hope that whoever is correcting their students' papers would do likewise.

And does your personal belief, take preference over mine Randy?

I would bet my house, that there are very few "living and breathing" the exam correcting process!!!!

Ive had, 16 LC exam papers corrected and the standard of correct has been shocking..going from a D3-> B1, because the person didn't add it up correctly. English papers going from B2-> A1, only reason I had it checked was because again added up incorrectly.

My advice to everyone is get all your papers checked even if you're happy with them, because the things I've seen from my papers do not fill me with confidence.

randylonghorn · 31-05-2015 1:23am

sleepyheadh wrote: »

And does your personal belief, take preference over mine Randy?

Very little to do with personal belief, but rather personal experience: not so much re: the act of correcting myself, which after all is a case study of one, but, as a result of correcting, the experience of interacting with other correctors, supervising examiners, assistant chiefs etc. at marking conferences and elsewhere, and of hearing their comments and feedback.

What personal experience do you bring to the table, sleepy, apart from your case study of one?

sleepyheadh wrote: »

I would bet my house, that there are very few "living and breathing" the exam correcting process!!!!

I just said there were, just as there are very few on the other extreme, with the vast majority (as is normal) falling in the middle.

sleepyheadh wrote: »

because the person didn't add it up correctly. English papers going from B2-> A1, only reason I had it checked was because again added up incorrectly.

Now on the "adding up" issue, in fairness, I will lend you an ear; it never fails to amaze me how many teachers with degrees and often masters can't seem to do simple maths (or even notice that they have entered it incorrectly in the calculator), and that *is* a plaint I've heard echoed from senior people. The fact that all the maths come at the end of a long and tiring couple of weeks doesn't help, but still ...

Big difference between "a lot of them seem to be hopeless at maths" and saying that correctors are careless / interested only in bringing in a few extra pound to spend on drink.

plagiarism

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