Run Commute

Myles Splitz

I noticed a few guys on my way in to work this morning and it got me wondering. The lads were carrying heavy bags on their back obviously trying to get in extra aerobic work or due to time constraints.
What I noticed was that (most likely due to weight of the bags) they looked to be dragging their feet and little to no knee lift.

My old coach always preached the importance of getting knees up and holding good form as a practice even on our easy runs, so, I am wondering whether these guys doing the extra mileage might actually be having a detrimental effect in terms of their performance? (what they are gaining in aerobic development they are losing in running economy)

I remember reading an article previously from Mo Farah's coach who mentioned he didn't have him running slower than particular paces for a similar reason. (i.e to always practice good running form)

I know he has all his technological gadgets to aid recovery so he can get away with that but it got me thinking is less mileage actually more productive in this case.

Any serial commuters find it beneficial or their running form change?

Krusty_Clown

I typically include some run commuting at times of of high-peak mileage, but would certainly agree that carrying a heavy pack will have an impact on running form. I would notice that I wouldn't get a high knee lift and also my prone position would be slightly offset to counterbalance the weight of the pack. Carrying the pack would of course also increase the workload.

I try to keep the pack lite, but it's not always possible. It's a bit of a trade-off. Convenience / time-saving, versus loss in form. But, in a week when I'll do 4 run-commutes, I'll probably do another 7-8 runs where I won't be carrying the pack (including strides and speed-work), so should in some ways alleviate any negative effects in terms of form.

Enduro

Some of us run with heavy packs because we participate in races which require heavy packs (as in large amount of mandatory gear to be hauled around). I was actually thinking about this very issue recently and I reckon that after a small period of adaptation time running with a heavy pack has little or no impact on running form. In fact I reckon if anything it is a slight aid to awareness of posture, as any imbalance will be exacerbated by the pack weight. (Again from personal observation, I reckon fatigue levels are by far the biggest influence on running form, massively outweighing any other factor I can think of).

Krusty_Clown

Enduro wrote: »

Some of us run with heavy packs because we participate in races which require heavy packs (as in large amount of mandatory gear to be hauled around). I was actually thinking about this very issue recently and I reckon that after a small period of adaptation time running with a heavy pack has little or no impact on running form. In fact I reckon if anything it is a slight aid to awareness of posture, as any imbalance will be exacerbated by the pack weight. (Again from personal observation, I reckon fatigue levels are by far the biggest influence on running form, massively outweighing any other factor I can think of).

That's a pretty unique environment though, as your goal is to train to accommodate carrying a pack (which most of us don't do in race environments). Does running with a pack help you to train for a goal of running your fastest possible 10k? I wouldn't have thought so - perhaps incidentally. It's undoubtedly going to change your posture (unless the weight is evenly distributed across front and back) and that change in posture should only help, in circumstances where you will be carrying the additional weight of a pack. But the additional weight does increase the workload (burn more calories) so there are certainly side-benefits.

Myles Splitz

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

I would notice that I wouldn't get a high knee lift

Enduro wrote: »

I reckon that after a small period of adaptation time running with a heavy pack has little or no impact on running form. In fact I reckon if anything it is a slight aid to awareness of posture, as any imbalance will be exacerbated by the pack weight. (Again from personal observation, I reckon fatigue levels are by far the biggest influence on running form, massively outweighing any other factor I can think of).

Krusty Clown's = these comments were the biggest thing I noticed with many of these people I witnessed.

Enduro = I get what you are saying about posture awareness but is that lower limb posture as well as upper? I remember watchin a few Strength and conditioning video's of elite athletes and the one thing which stood out was exercise's that involved explosive knee drive for form.

I guess I was just wondering is the extra 15-20 miles per week enough of an aerobic boost to offset bad movement habits? Or, would I be better off keeping the mileage moderate, getting an extra 20 min in bed and maybe doing a few form exercises before I jump in the car to work (I am willing to listen to anyone who is advocating a bit of extra shut eye being the right answer )

Señor Fancy Pants

Iv spent a lot of time over the years running with a pack on. Typically the weight would be around 35/45lbs. On occasions it would hit close to 100-120lbs combined but anything over 75lbs is walking territory.

Anything over 35lbs I notice I lean forward quite a bit, my strides shorten and my form adapts to what I am carrying. Depending on terrain, weather and distance, the knees / ankles start to give some hassle which obviously alters performance.

Once the kit is ditched after a week or so and I'm running in shorts and a t shirt, I do notice that I am quicker and my body kind of naturally aligns itself. Knees do be up, shoulders do be rolled back etc.

I feel the days running with kit actually benefit me to some extent.

Enduro

Myles Splitz wrote: »

Enduro = I get what you are saying about posture awareness but is that lower limb posture as well as upper? I remember watchin a few Strength and conditioning video's of elite athletes and the one thing which stood out was exercise's that involved explosive knee drive for form.

Again, a highly personalised answer from my own experience... yes that includes lower limb posture for sure. But then I'm out doing a lot of milage so every now and then I will be conciously tuning in on these things. FWIW I've found that training on roads in more minimalist style shoes has had a bigger (positive) impact on my attention to posture and form than any other change. Pack / no pack would have much less influence for me.

Again, FWIW, I've found that tuning into the sound of your footstrikes is also a good feedback to use for running form.

RayCun

Myles Splitz wrote: »

Or, would I be better off keeping the mileage moderate, getting an extra 20 min in bed and maybe doing a few form exercises before I jump in the car to work (I am willing to listen to anyone who is advocating a bit of extra shut eye being the right answer )

Don't run in every day. Drive in Monday with a change of clothes or two, packed lunches etc, and leave them in work. Then you can run in and out on Tuesday without a bag

demfad

Myles Splitz wrote: »

I noticed a few guys on my way in to work this morning and it got me wondering. The lads were carrying heavy bags on their back obviously trying to get in extra aerobic work or due to time constraints.
What I noticed was that (most likely due to weight of the bags) they looked to be dragging their feet and little to no knee lift.

My old coach always preached the importance of getting knees up and holding good form as a practice even on our easy runs, so, I am wondering whether these guys doing the extra mileage might actually be having a detrimental effect in terms of their performance? (what they are gaining in aerobic development they are losing in running economy)

I remember reading an article previously from Mo Farah's coach who mentioned he didn't have him running slower than particular paces for a similar reason. (i.e to always practice good running form)

I know he has all his technological gadgets to aid recovery so he can get away with that but it got me thinking is less mileage actually more productive in this case.

Any serial commuters find it beneficial or their running form change?

I find it beneficial, but then with a shower and storage facilities at work I can have a very light load. I tend to do most of this running as very easy, even jogging, usually as the secondary (or tertiary) run of the day. I don't experience issues with gait during these runs but then I don't normally lift my knees high anyway for this very easy running, I prefer to keep my cadence high.

I think for me the benefits outweigh the drawbacks. I take Enduro's point too about conciousness about form: how you compensate for the weight is important. If I didn't have high cadence (when I have a weighty pack) then maybe I would bend forward more etc.

I generally bend my running to fit my life (2 small kids). So I have to use the commute, and using it as easy jogging works for me as it allows recovery from the other longer, faster running I do under normal conditions.

P.S You can be creative with the running commute. I always have a public transport card with me and sometimes do a run/hop-on hop-off/run as commute, usually on the Dart in my case.

Enduro

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

That's a pretty unique environment though, as your goal is to train to accommodate carrying a pack (which most of us don't do in race environments). Does running with a pack help you to train for a goal of running your fastest possible 10k? I wouldn't have thought so - perhaps incidentally. It's undoubtedly going to change your posture (unless the weight is evenly distributed across front and back) and that change in posture should only help, in circumstances where you will be carrying the additional weight of a pack. But the additional weight does increase the workload (burn more calories) so there are certainly side-benefits.

Far from unique... the hills are alive with the sound of runners trotting about with backpacke . But yes, not usual, which is why I declared it at the start to give context.

I don't have a goal of training for a 10k race, so I don't care what impact it has on my 10k time. But if I was to guess I would say it improves it by increased leg strength, and also the zingy bounce-back effect of racing without the extra weight of the backpack that Truffle Pig describes (And I also notice). The extra workload is definitely a side benifit which most definitely helps on hills in particular.

But again, as I said at the start, I have specific training reasons for running with a backpack which in and of themselves not only justify doing so, but would make it remiss of me not to do so. But I do tend to do a lot of self-analysis of what I'm doing and how to improve. from that, overall my conclusion would be that doing some runs with a backpack at the very least is unlikely to have a nagative effect (and more likely to have some postive effects).

Myles Splitz

Thanks for the info guys.

This mornings drive just got me thinking of the issue and it's not one I remember reading a definitive answer on.I remember in school years ago a particular coach (not the boys coach) advocating ankle weights and weighted vests for the feeling lighter effect on race day which when I got older and told some runners about looked at me in shock and horror.

RayCun wrote: »

Don't run in every day. Drive in Monday with a change of clothes or two, packed lunches etc, and leave them in work. Then you can run in and out on Tuesday without a bag

That's a good idea actually and best of both worlds although I am running faster stuff at the moment so won't have to hit the big miles till winter I would imagine.

M.J.M.C

RayCun wrote: »

Don't run in every day. Drive in Monday with a change of clothes or two, packed lunches etc, and leave them in work. Then you can run in and out on Tuesday without a bag

Yeah this too... Run commute is great.
I do it once a week just under 20K, do it in and out some days. It's a good way to get in mileage. But I leave gear in work so I've no bag.
Twice I had to run after work with a bag, and I thought it was horrific. Don't know how people do it.

I'd sooner deal with the logistics of getting clean clothes to work before hand than the pain of a heavy bag while running.

slogging...it

I have actually started doing this quite recently, but the way i do is I get a lift with one of the lads in work which leaves it simple to jog home or most the way as home is ten miles! I just bought a light lidl bag which has two straps to go around the front of the body aswell as the shoulder straps and just bring back trousers and top and I find it works great for getting sneakey miles in aswell as that i reallly enjoy my weekend jogs with no bag then!!