Handicap Help

redzerdrog

I am a new member of a club and completed my 3 rounds for my hcap over the last three weeks, I received my official Hcap this evening. Before I go any further below is how I played in the 3 rounds. What do you guys reckon would be a fair hcap?

redzerdrog wrote: »

First round of my 3 needed for my hcap

98 strokes in total including 5 pars

Didn't actually play that bad a few shockers and then mostly bad putting cost me

redzerdrog wrote: »

My 2nd of the 3 rounds Played well enough

95 strokes
1 birdie
3 pars
9 bogeys
2 double bogeys
3 8s

redzerdrog wrote: »

Last of my 3 cards for hcap today and the less said about it the better, I think the hcapper will just tear it up and base It in my previous 2 rounds.

107 strokes but one of them was an 8 on a par 3 :-(

Putting and bunker play atrocious

Kingswood Rover

Reckon you will be a 16 where did you join?

redzerdrog

Kingswood Rover wrote: »

Reckon you will be a 16 where did you join?

I have my hcap but waiting for a few more to comment before I say it.

Joined Seapoint Golf Club

JIdontknow

redzerdrog wrote: »

I have my hcap but waiting for a few more to comment before I say it.

Joined Seapoint Golf Club

I'd say around 17. Your second round, off 18 would be around 36 points (they usually put anything worse than double bogey to a double bogey).

PARlance

14/15 I would say. 14.5 if we're being specific

Your second round suggests you're close to playing off that.

ForeRight

12-14 I'd give you. No more!

Low 90's in you in s stroke game now so with regular play you would have no issue hitting 36 points in a stableford comp off a low teen hamdicap on your day.

redzerdrog

Ok just some background I have been playing society golf so about 10 years now and started at 18 and worked way out to 28 ( I was pretty bad) then a few years ago I started getting better. I am currently off 18 in the society, having been at 17 (my lowest ever) for a period last year. I joined a club with the intentions to try a get as good as possible and hopefully lower my hcap, also I would have liked to try a compete in interclub for the mid hcappers next year.

That is all ruined as I have been given a hcap of 9.5 and I am a million miles away from being able to play to that. I was expecting about 16 and thought at the very least id be looking at 14. Now it looks like the next two years of golf for me a right off especially as I can only really play one qualifying event a week. It will be a long time before I am off a playable hcap. I am disappointed as I forked out a lot of money to join a golf club and now I cant even compete. I prob wont have a hope of getting a fourball/foresomes partner as who would want to play with 17 hcapper off 10.

Next question is where do I go from here?

princess poppy

If I was handicap sec I would give you 16. I think thats fair assuming your 8's on the second card were on par 4's And an sss 72.

Well let us know what did you get???

cairny

redzerdrog wrote: »

Ok just some background I have been playing society golf so about 10 years now and started at 18 and worked way out to 28 ( I was pretty bad) then a few years ago I started getting better. I am currently off 18 in the society, having been at 17 (my lowest ever) for a period last year. I joined a club with the intentions to try a get as good as possible and hopefully lower my hcap, also I would have liked to try a compete in interclub for the mid hcappers next year.

That is all ruined as I have been given a hcap of 9.5 and I am a million miles away from being able to play to that. I was expecting about 16 and thought at the very least id be looking at 14. Now it looks like the next two years of golf for me a right off especially as I can only really play one qualifying event a week. It will be a long time before I am off a playable hcap. I am disappointed as I forked out a lot of money to join a golf club and now I cant even compete. I prob wont have a hope of getting a fourball/foresomes partner as who would want to play with 17 hcapper off 10.

Next question is where do I go from here?

Every club has to have an appeals process. Nobody that sat on committee that have you the handicap can sit on it. If that fails you can appeal to the GUI. They will give you a hearing, often personal and from what I've heard are very fair.

leonards

redzerdrog wrote: »

Ok just some background I have been playing society golf so about 10 years now and started at 18 and worked way out to 28 ( I was pretty bad) then a few years ago I started getting better. I am currently off 18 in the society, having been at 17 (my lowest ever) for a period last year. I joined a club with the intentions to try a get as good as possible and hopefully lower my hcap, also I would have liked to try a compete in interclub for the mid hcappers next year.

That is all ruined as I have been given a hcap of 9.5 and I am a million miles away from being able to play to that. I was expecting about 16 and thought at the very least id be looking at 14. Now it looks like the next two years of golf for me a right off especially as I can only really play one qualifying event a week. It will be a long time before I am off a playable hcap. I am disappointed as I forked out a lot of money to join a golf club and now I cant even compete. I prob wont have a hope of getting a fourball/foresomes partner as who would want to play with 17 hcapper off 10.

Next question is where do I go from here?

Sent you pm

PARlance

That seems very harsh, let us know how it goes.
I would just have a word with the HC sec and explain your story.

Going from society to weekly golf will bring improvements but I can't see how they've given you 9.5

Senna

You had 5 pars in one round and a Birdie and 3 pars in another. You may feel hard done by and maybe a handicap of 11/12 would be given by a more generous sec, but no way were you getting 14-16.

Dtoffee

As far as I know, there is a formula for calculation new handicaps and it includes a rule that the max you get credited with on any hole is two over par ...... so your big scores were not taken into account. However pars and birdies are an indication of serious ability and as such are pointers to a lower handicap.

Looking at your scores, you seem to be capable of paring 5/6 holes on a course you are only starting to know. I would imagine the handicapper expects you will improve and has reckoned you can par 8/9 holes hence 9.5 playing off 10.

Its tough, but if yoiu complain and start winning it will work against you. My advice would be to play away and see how you are doing after say 8 qualifying scores .... if you are nowhere near 36 points then you can raise the question with good cause.

PARlance

Senna wrote: »

You had 5 pars in one round and a Birdie and 3 pars in another. You may feel hard done by and maybe a handicap of 11/12 would be given by a more generous sec, but no way were you getting 14-16.

Just curious, if he shot 18 bogeys as his best card what would you give him?

ForeRight

Senna wrote: »

You had 5 pars in one round and a Birdie and 3 pars in another. You may feel hard done by and maybe a handicap of 11/12 would be given by a more generous sec, but no way were you getting 14-16.

I agree.

The fact that is a strokes round too.

Even off 10 he could have racked up 15-18 points or so in the 6 holes in stablford in the holes you say above.

He won't be long about ironing out the amount of bad holes and limiting it to 1 scratch a round he will be a solid golfer by the sounds of it.

10 might indeed be a bit low but use it as motivation imo

Senna

PARlance wrote: »

Just curious, if he shot 18 bogeys as his best card what would you give him?

I don't proclaim to know how the system works, but a round with no doubles and no blanks would tell me he's a consistence player, and although it would be +18, there's no way a Handicap sec would give him more than 14(?) maybe less.

I don't think I ever had a comp round with no doubles, my best round ever in a stroke comp was +6 and I had two doubles in that.

redzerdrog

I have decided I am not gona kick up a big fuss about because if I do manage to improve I don't want to be considered a bandit.

I am however going to contact the secretary to make sure a mistake wasn't made and maybe ask for the calculations to be explained to me.

In a way I am motivated to give it a good lash with my first goal is actually reach buffer zone in competion, then I will be trying my damdest to get my first cut. First things first I am going to get my clubs regripped and organise a few short game lessons. At least now anything I do achieve in golf I will feel like I have genuinely earned it.

digginz

Hey at least you can say you re a single handicapper

Rikand

digginz wrote: »

Hey at least you can say you re a single handicapper

He can't really. 9.5 = 10

redzerdrog

Rikand wrote: »

He can't really. 9.5 = 10

Not until I get that first cut

PARlance

redzerdrog wrote: »

I have decided I am not gona kick up a big fuss about because if I do manage to improve I don't want to be considered a bandit.

I am however going to contact the secretary to make sure a mistake wasn't made and maybe ask for the calculations to be explained to me.

In a way I am motivated to give it a good lash with my first goal is actually reach buffer zone in competion, then I will be trying my damdest to get my first cut. First things first I am going to get my clubs regripped and organise a few short game lessons. At least now anything I do achieve in golf I will feel like I have genuinely earned it.

Might be worth mentioning that you've been playing 10 years when chatting. If they thought that you're new to the game they might have allowed more scope for improvement than they would if they knew that you've been playing for some time now.

I still think it's a bizarre situation, a mate came back into the game last year, his lowest was 10 previously and he handed in 3 cards all in the 85-87 region. They gave him 10 and he still hasn't got a cut yet, think he's nearly out to 12 now.
I dont think I've ever seen him shoot a 95 and he would be incapable of having a 107..... but they've put you on the same mark.
I wouldn't be surprised to see a 19 hc'er (just using that as it's double what they gave you) have a rare birdie and a few pars in a good round, the difference between that player and a guy off 10 is that there will be much less bad golf and that's the hardest part of improving in golf Imo... Most of us try to get better but maybe we should focus on getting less bad

Keep the faith anyway, hopefully they will review it if needs be. Goals should be achievable and so should initial hc's imo.

Senna

I think most people will go up from there first handicap before going down, so don't be discouraged by a few .1's, they can all be wiped out by one good score in the future.

JIdontknow

Senna wrote: »

I think most people will go up from there first handicap before going down, so don't be discouraged by a few .1's, they can all be wiped out by one good score in the future.

Have to agree with this! I imagine handicap committee allow a few shots for new members when they get familiar with course there scores will drop these few shots. It took me a year or more to get my first cut, going outwards before finally getting a cut, it's the nature of the beast unfortunately. Just enjoy your golf, try your best and as you get familiar with course you'll do better and the gap won't be as big as you think.

Myksyk

I've been a handicap sec for 5 years and it seems more than a bit odd to me. Your best card is 95. The handicap sec/committee MUST work off this. I presume this is +23 or thereabouts. Assuming I can make a clause 19 reduction on your card by about 4-5 shots because of your 8s, my starting point for you is around +18. Now the committee can take into account other information about your play (and they may also err on the side of caution) etc but unless they have some very significant information about your play that goes against the card information they have I'm struggling to see how they could possibly assign a handicap below 14. I think it's a legitimate question to ask what information they have used, outside of your submitted cards, to determine your handicap. You really should ask. It's an extraordinary handicap to assign based on your cards and the information you've given here.

redzerdrog

Myksyk wrote: »

I've been a handicap sec for 5 years and it seems more than a bit odd to me. Your best card is 95. The handicap sec/committee MUST work off this. I presume this is +23 or thereabouts. Assuming I can make a clause 19 reduction on your card by about 4-5 shots because of your 8s, my starting point for you is around +18. Now the committee can take into account other information about your play (and they may also err on the side of caution) etc but unless they have some very significant information about your play that goes against the card information they have I'm struggling to see how they could possibly assign a handicap below 14. I think it's a legitimate question to ask what information they have used, outside of your submitted cards, to determine your handicap. You really should ask. It's an extraordinary handicap to assign based on your cards and the information you've given here.

Thanks for that I have used the facility on golfnet to contact the sec. I have just asked was there an error and if not could they explain the theory behind the hcap given.

Senna

Myksyk wrote: »

I've been a handicap sec for 5 years and it seems more than a bit odd to me. Your best card is 95. The handicap sec/committee MUST work off this. I presume this is +23 or thereabouts. Assuming I can make a clause 19 reduction on your card by about 4-5 shots because of your 8s, my starting point for you is around +18. Now the committee can take into account other information about your play (and they may also err on the side of caution) etc but unless they have some very significant information about your play that goes against the card information they have I'm struggling to see how they could possibly assign a handicap below 14. I think it's a legitimate question to ask what information they have used, outside of your submitted cards, to determine your handicap. You really should ask. It's an extraordinary handicap to assign based on your cards and the information you've given here.

Great insight, is the handicap sec answerable and could a hcp be challenged/changed? assuming just a mistake etc hasn't been made.

Myksyk

Senna wrote: »

Great insight, is the handicap sec answerable and could a hcp be challenged/changed? assuming just a mistake etc hasn't been made.

Yes. As previously mentioned a player can refer handicap decisions to a club committee convened for that purpose and if unhappy can ask that the matter be dealt with by their regional branch.

redzerdrog

Has anyone here used the facility on Golfnet to contact your club Secretary? Just wondering do you usually get a response through golfnet or by email?

Ollieboy

wow that's very low. I would have thought and calculate 15-18 with 16 being about right and a lot of places would have given you 18.

At the end of the year if you don't break your handicap they can give you back further shots, I think its 2 shots.

benny79

just ring your club and ask for the secretary's no or email address and drop him a line I wouldn't go through golf net to be honest.

slingerz

i think its grossly unfair to be honest. Surely a 15 handicap would allow you as a new member to be competitive and maintain an interest in playing golf and competitions in the club

cairny

redzerdrog wrote: »

Has anyone here used the facility on Golfnet to contact your club Secretary? Just wondering do you usually get a response through golfnet or by email?

No and our comp committee have never received a query through that route. I suspect your question won't reach the comp secretary.

Myksyk

Golfnet2 has a new facility for members to leave queries regarding their handicap on the site and these queries are obvious and should be seen by the H/C Sec (not the Comp sec. btw). However, I wouldn't go through this route. I would put it in writing from the start. Write nicely (!) and make reasonable enquiries stating your case and your disappointment and bewilderment about the handicap assigned. If you are not satisfied with the response or result you can thank them but respectfully ask, in the interest of fairness, for a internal review by members of the Men's Committee. If not happy with that you can ask to have the situation reviewed by your Provincial Branch.

Either they have a good case for your low handicap or they don't. Simple as.

Uncle Ben

redzerdrog wrote: »

Has anyone here used the facility on Golfnet to contact your club Secretary? Just wondering do you usually get a response through golfnet or by email?

I've had a few queries through the Golfnet system. The only problem with it from my point of view is that you can't reply to the sender through the same system. It does however flag me as soon as I log in.
8/10.

Dublin Spur

Would have expected around 18

9.5 Seems ludicrous to me