Golf Ban

Norfolk Enchants_

Hi,

I've been banned from golf for a month as a result of this post, apparently it's sexist according to the mod.
Below is collins dictionary definition of sexism:
sexism

Definitions

noun

1. discrimination on the basis of sex, esp the oppression of women by men

Derived Forms

ˈsexist noun, adjective
Word Origin

C20: from sex + -ism, on the model of racism,

By the above definition and context of the thread, my post is not and can not be sexist, in my opinion the warning in thread was a misinterpretation of my post and the resulting ban should be recinded.
I've had a PM exchange with the Mod in question but to no avail.

GavRedKing

I'll take a look at this later this evening for you.

GavRedKing

As you were originally banned for a day for this comment : http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=95561237&postcount=15

Norfolk Enchants_ wrote: »

Did they hand out skirts with those Handicaps too?.

And then it was subsequently upgraded on the back of a PM exchange, I feel this is an Admin matter as I'm not privy to PMs between users.

I'm going to get clarification of this and report back.

Norfolk Enchants_

GavRedKing wrote: »

As you were originally banned for a day for this comment : http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=95561237&postcount=15



And then it was subsequently upgraded on the back of a PM exchange, I feel this is an Admin matter as I'm not privy to PMs between users.

I'm going to get clarification of this and report back.

No that's not how it happened, initially there was a mod warning in thread for that post but no ban or PM from mod directly relating to that post, but subsequently I was given a 1 day ban for a PM to that mod relating to that post and that was increased to 1 month for a further pm.
I've since had a PM exchange with that mod in an attempt to clarify the situation, in that PM exchange he states my OP was sexist and therefore offensive and as I've shown above that clearly is not and cannot be the case, not withstanding it's common golfing banter in all circles of golf that I've ever encoutered, that golfers are ribbed about the handicap (both low and high), plus my comment is not and was not meant to be taken seriously.
IMO the mod misinterpreted the meaning of my post and saw it as something sinister or derogatory.
Also I'll add I'm prepared to apologise unresevedly for my reaction to the initial in thread warning and subsequent PMs.
I can send you all the PM if you like.

Dades

GavRedKing wrote: »

And then it was subsequently upgraded on the back of a PM exchange, I feel this is an Admin matter as I'm not privy to PMs between users.

Neither are we. PM's (with the exception of reported ones) are private from everyone.

Norfolk Enchants_ wrote: »

I can send you all the PM if you like.

You can post them here as part of the DR process, since they are relevant. As per the charter:

Private message conversations in relation to the topic at hand are ok to publish in this forum in an attempt to resolve an issue. This is contrary to normal Boards.ie Guidelines that permission be sought before publication of any PMs sent or received.

Norfolk Enchants_

Dades wrote: »

You can post them here as part of the DR process, since they are relevant. As per the charter:

Sure I'll post them all here if you or GavRedKing feel they are relevant.
GavRedKing?.

GavRedKing

Ya, fire away. I'll get onto the Mod who banned you also.

Norfolk Enchants_

GavRedKing wrote: »

Ya, fire away. I'll get onto the Mod who banned you also.

Ok below is all the PM exchange I had with the mod, apologies about the chronological order, I clicked on all the relevant "sent" messages and "inbox" messages and downloaded as text and copy and pasted to here. The first lot of PM's are from my "sent" folder and the second lot are from my "inbox" folder. I don't think I've left anything out, but if I have I'm sure the mod will correct me.



boards.ie;http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin
Private Message Dump for User Norfolk Enchants_; 27-05-2015 13:25 -->
################################################################################
Folder : Sent Items
################################################################################
================================================================================
From : Norfolk Enchants_
To : Keano
Date : 2015-05-21 08:07
Title : Lighten up dawg.

---

Lol wow, still overly sensitve and not getting golfing banter, perhaps you're too embarrassed of your own HC????.
================================================================================
From : Norfolk Enchants_
To : Keano
Date : 2015-05-21 11:32
Title : Re: You have been banned

---

Keano wrote:

Dear Norfolk Enchants_,

You have been banned from Golf for one day for being uncivil.

Typically, this means that you are posting in a needlessly aggressive or confrontational manner being disruptive on the forum or causing stress for the other members. We don't want that here.

For more information please refer to the Boards.ie FAQ[/URL].

If you wish to appeal this ban you can see details on how to do so here[/URL].

Keano

Lol
================================================================================
From : Norfolk Enchants_
To : Keano
Date : 2015-05-21 11:35
Title : Re: You have been banned

---

Keano wrote:

Dear Norfolk Enchants_,

You have been banned from Golf for one day for being uncivil.

Typically, this means that you are posting in a needlessly aggressive or confrontational manner being disruptive on the forum or causing stress for the other members. We don't want that here.

For more information please refer to the Boards.ie FAQ[/URL].

If you wish to appeal this ban you can see details on how to do so here[/URL].

Keano

Pathetic
================================================================================
From : Norfolk Enchants_
To : Keano
Date : 2015-05-21 11:36
Title : Re: You have been banned

---

Keano wrote:

Dear Norfolk Enchants_,

You have been banned from Golf for one day for being uncivil.

Typically, this means that you are posting in a needlessly aggressive or confrontational manner being disruptive on the forum or causing stress for the other members. We don't want that here.

For more information please refer to the Boards.ie FAQ[/URL].

If you wish to appeal this ban you can see details on how to do so here[/URL].

Keano

Wouldn't expect anything less from a hacker:P:D:pac::pac:.
================================================================================
From : Norfolk Enchants_
To : Keano
Date : 2015-05-21 15:26
Title : Re: You have been banned

---

Keano wrote:

Dear Norfolk Enchants_,

You have been banned from Golf for one month for being uncivil.

Typically, this means that you are posting in a needlessly aggressive or confrontational manner being disruptive on the forum or causing stress for the other members. We don't want that here.

For more information please refer to the Boards.ie FAQ[/URL].

If you wish to appeal this ban you can see details on how to do so here[/URL].

Keano

Well that escalated quickly, care to elaborate or engage in PM conversation to find a resolution?
================================================================================
From : Norfolk Enchants_
To : Keano
Date : 2015-05-21 17:25
Title : Re: You have been banned

---

Keano wrote:

Hi,

You received a warning in the thread and then sent a PM that wasn't needed and was deemed uncivil. Then you were given a one day for ban for said PM to which you felt the need to reply 3 times to. The tone of each was again deemed uncivil. After a discussion with other mods(one of whom is being cc'd) your ban was increased to one month.

Did I miss anything?

Regards,
Golf Mod Team

Hi,
Oh let me see, Yup, the golfing banter that was my post in the thread, perhaps.
I'll ask you this question and answer honestly if you can, if anyone else on the forum had posted that post in the that thread, would your response have been the same?.
Regards,
No fukking chance.
================================================================================
From : Norfolk Enchants_
To : Norfolk Enchants_
Date : 2015-05-22 09:47
Title : Re: You have been banned

---

Norfolk Enchants_ wrote:

Keano wrote:

Hi,

You received a warning in the thread and then sent a PM that wasn't needed and was deemed uncivil. Then you were given a one day for ban for said PM to which you felt the need to reply 3 times to. The tone of each was again deemed uncivil. After a discussion with other mods(one of whom is being cc'd) your ban was increased to one month.

Did I miss anything?

Regards,
Golf Mod Team

Hi,
Oh let me see, Yup, the golfing banter that was my post in the thread, perhaps.
I'll ask you this question and answer honestly if you can, if anyone else on the forum had posted that post in the that thread, would your response have been the same?.
Regards,
NorkolkEnchants.

Hello??.
Is a reply too much to ask for?.
A courtesy you're not willing to extend?.
================================================================================
From : Norfolk Enchants_
To : Keano
Date : 2015-05-22 09:52
Title : Fw: You have been banned

---

Norfolk Enchants_ wrote:

Keano wrote:

Hi,

You received a warning in the thread and then sent a PM that wasn't needed and was deemed uncivil. Then you were given a one day for ban for said PM to which you felt the need to reply 3 times to. The tone of each was again deemed uncivil. After a discussion with other mods(one of whom is being cc'd) your ban was increased to one month.

Did I miss anything?

Regards,
Golf Mod Team

Hi,
Oh let me see, Yup, the golfing banter that was my post in the thread, perhaps.
I'll ask you this question and answer honestly if you can, if anyone else on the forum had posted that post in the that thread, would your response have been the same?.
Regards,
NorkolkEnchants.

Hello?.
Is a reply too much to ask for?.
A courtesy you're not willing to extend because you're afraid you might slip up?.
================================================================================
From : Norfolk Enchants_
To : Keano
Date : 2015-05-22 12:03
Title : Re: You have been banned

---

Keano wrote:

Hi,

Would I have posted the warning? Yes. Would they have sent a PM like yours? No.

Would they have accepted their one day ban? Yes. Instead you continued on resulting in a longer ban.

Your ban will be reviewed in 2 weeks time.

Regards,
Keano

Thanks for your honesty, looks like we maybe making progress.
While I suspected that you would answer in the affirmative, there are a couple of points I have issue with, firstly I don't necessarily believe you, but we'll deal with that shortly, secondly assuming that others would have reacted differently is conjuncture and impossible to say.
Have you ever heard the expression "assumption is the mother of all **** ups", if you have you'll know that means assume nothing.
Now back to the first and main point, because everthing stems from there, what exactly do you take issue with in my post "do they hand out skirts with those HC's"?.
================================================================================
From : Norfolk Enchants_
To : Keano
Date : 2015-05-22 13:32
Title : Re: You have been banned

---

Keano wrote:

Your comment added nothing to the thread and you posted it knowing full well what you were doing. You've been warned in the past about your trolling but you continue to do so. By and large the forum runs well, we want to keep it like that and we welcome everyone of all sexes, ages and handicaps. You seem to have a problem with high handicappers and debate that in a fairway when your ban is up and we will have no problem with that.

It's called banter and has everything to do with every thread, unless you think there's no place for banter unless you approve first?, FYI it's my forum just as much as yours, so I'd respectfully suggest you reminder that and don't abuse your position. We may have differing opinions and points of view but that's no reason to get the hump over common golfing banter.
Also how are you not aware the CONGU mens highest HC is 28 and ladies highest CONGU HC is 36, the OP was asking about HC's over 28 and it's common practice to have banter and rib people about their HC, and it's also common to ask the question I asked, yet you take offence, may I suggest it's you who are the one who has the issue with higher handicapped players, in the form of a chip.
I personally have no issue with any players HC (High or low) but I have with their attitude, i.e if they believe their point of view and/or opinion is the only one that matters.
In light of all that I suggest you apologise for the warning and rescind the ban and in turn I'll happily apologies for my bad reaction.
================================================================================
From : Norfolk Enchants_
To : Keano
Date : 2015-05-22 14:48
Title : Re: You have been banned

---

God, this is like pulling teeth.
So you are now taking offence at a request for an apology?. I would have thought that was a natural progression in how these things work after one has qualified ones statements. You can always simply reject the apology request and make a counter offer, but perhaps you're unwilling to accept any point of view bar your own?.
================================================================================
From : Norfolk Enchants_
To : Keano
Date : 2015-05-22 16:12
Title : Re: You have been banned

---

Keano wrote:

Discussions are healthy and this forum wouldn't be here without them but when users think they post what they want, when they want and they are told on numerous occasions to stop but fail to do so then they are given a ban.

Yours will be reviewed in 2 weeks.

While all of that may sound good to you, you didn't actually give me a ban for posting in thread so none of what you state above relates to me.
While on the subject of my posts, care to explain why numerous posts of mine have been secretly deleted without explanation?
================================================================================
From : Norfolk Enchants_
To : Keano
Date : 2015-05-22 22:55
Title : Fw: You have been banned

---

Norfolk Enchants_ wrote:

Keano wrote:

Discussions are healthy and this forum wouldn't be here without them but when users think they post what they want, when they want and they are told on numerous occasions to stop but fail to do so then they are given a ban.

Yours will be reviewed in 2 weeks.

While all of that may sound good to you, you didn't actually give me a ban for posting in thread so none of what you state above relates to me.
While on the subject of my posts, care to explain why numerous posts of mine have been secretly deleted without explanation?

Your silence speaks volumes.
================================================================================
From : Norfolk Enchants_
To : Beasty, charlieIRL, GavRedKing, Keano
Date : 2015-05-24 09:04
Title : Golf ban

---

Keano,

I think maybe it's time to admit you got it wrong and recind the ban, you claim my post was sexist and therefore offensive, below is the definition of sexism as per collins dictionary,

sexism

Definitions




noun

1. discrimination on the basis of sex, esp the oppression of women by men

Derived Forms

ˈsexist noun, adjective
Word Origin

C20: from sex + -ism, on the model of racism,

It's clear to me given the above definition my comment was not and can not be sexist as it was directed at members of the same sex, maybe you have a different definition, if so please share. Plus may I add it was meant as banter, therefore not to be taken seriously.
We all make mistakes, we're all only human after all. I'm prepared to apologise for my reaction to the initial in thread warning and subsequent PM's, are you?.
################################################################################
Folder : Inbox
################################################################################
================================================================================
From : Keano
To : Norfolk Enchants_
Date : 2015-05-21 09:31
Title : You have been banned

---

Dear Norfolk Enchants_,
You have been banned from Golf for one day for being uncivil.
Typically, this means that you are posting in a needlessly aggressive or confrontational manner being disruptive on the forum or causing stress for the other members. We don't want that here.
For more information please refer to the Boards.ie FAQ[/url].
If you wish to appeal this ban you can see details on how to do so here[/url].
Keano
================================================================================
From : Keano
To : Norfolk Enchants_
Date : 2015-05-21 12:21
Title : You have been banned

---

Dear Norfolk Enchants_,
You have been banned from Golf for one month for being uncivil.
Typically, this means that you are posting in a needlessly aggressive or confrontational manner being disruptive on the forum or causing stress for the other members. We don't want that here.
For more information please refer to the Boards.ie FAQ[/url].
If you wish to appeal this ban you can see details on how to do so here[/url].
Keano
================================================================================
From : Keano
To : charlieIRL, Norfolk Enchants_
Date : 2015-05-21 15:32
Title : Re: You have been banned

---

Hi,
You received a warning in the thread and then sent a PM that wasn't needed and was deemed uncivil. Then you were given a one day for ban for said PM to which you felt the need to reply 3 times to. The tone of each was again deemed uncivil. After a discussion with other mods(one of whom is being cc'd) your ban was increased to one month.
Did I miss anything?
Regards,
Golf Mod Team
================================================================================
From : Keano
To : Norfolk Enchants_
Date : 2015-05-22 10:32
Title : Re: You have been banned

---

Hi,
Would I have posted the warning? Yes. Would they have sent a PM like yours? No.
Would they have accepted their one day ban? Yes. Instead you continued on resulting in a longer ban.
Your ban will be reviewed in 2 weeks time.
Regards,
Keano
================================================================================
From : Keano
To : Norfolk Enchants_
Date : 2015-05-22 12:34
Title : Re: You have been banned

---

Your comment added nothing to the thread and you posted it knowing full well what you were doing. You've been warned in the past about your trolling but you continue to do so. By and large the forum runs well, we want to keep it like that and we welcome everyone of all sexes, ages and handicaps. You seem to have a problem with high handicappers and debate that in a fairway when your ban is up and we will have no problem with that.
================================================================================
From : Keano
To : Norfolk Enchants_
Date : 2015-05-22 14:30
Title : Re: You have been banned

---

You had me until you ask for an apology...
Your comment was sexist and had no place in the discussion. This is not banter. We all like to joke and have fun but you on a number of occasions have over stepped the mark.
Ban will be reviewed in 2 weeks.
================================================================================
From : Keano
To : Norfolk Enchants_
Date : 2015-05-22 14:54
Title : Re: You have been banned

---

Discussions are healthy and this forum wouldn't be here without them but when users think they post what they want, when they want and they are told on numerous occasions to stop but fail to do so then they are given a ban.
Yours will be reviewed in 2 weeks.

GavRedKing

I've reviewed this and gone through the PMs. Taking into account your record on the forum and your posting style I will not be lifting the 1 month by the Mod.

IMO, the ban was pretty warranted and you continued it to PM, you've been infracted before by an Admin for trolling via PM and this is pretty much, without seeing those previous PMs a similar style of approaching the ban youve picked up.

Your PM replies were "LOL" "pathetic" and "Wouldnt expect anything less from a hacker :P :pac: :pac:"

On the back of those 3 PMs, you were give a 1 month ban.

Keano then sent you a PM outlining that the 1 month ban was imposed for your previous 3 PMs.

There was a few exchanges and then you said

I suggest you apologise for the warning and rescind the ban and in turn I'll happily apologies for my bad reaction.

Keano told you then

Would I have posted the warning? Yes. Would they have sent a PM like yours? No.

Would they have accepted their one day ban? Yes. Instead you continued on resulting in a longer ban.

Your ban will be reviewed in 2 weeks time.

You've tried to claim it was banter but you were, IMO, trolling. As I sid the ban stands you've the option to get an Admin review of my decision if you so wish.

PLease be advised that Keano has stated clearly he will review his deciison in 2 weeks time also.

Norfolk Enchants_

GavRedKing wrote: »

I've reviewed this and gone through the PMs. Taking into account your record on the forum and your posting style I will not be lifting the 1 month by the Mod.

IMO, the ban was pretty warranted and you continued it to PM, you've been infracted before by an Admin for trolling via PM and this is pretty much, without seeing those previous PMs a similar style of approaching the ban youve picked up.

Your PM replies were "LOL" "pathetic" and "Wouldnt expect anything less from a hacker :P :pac: :pac:"

On the back of those 3 PMs, you were give a 1 month ban.

Keano then sent you a PM outlining that the 1 month ban was imposed for your previous 3 PMs.

There was a few exchanges and then you said

Keano told you then

You've tried to claim it was banter but you were, IMO, trolling. As I sid the ban stands you've the option to get an Admin review of my decision if you so wish.

PLease be advised that Keano has stated clearly he will review his deciison in 2 weeks time also.

You've conveniently overlooked the original post and the fact that everything stems from there, does that not matter at all?.

GavRedKing

Norfolk Enchants_ wrote: »

You've conveniently overlooked the original post and the fact that everything stems from there, does that not matter at all?.

You said

initially there was a mod warning in thread for that post but no ban or PM from mod directly relating to that post, but subsequently I was given a 1 day ban for a PM to that mod relating to that post and that was increased to 1 month for a further pm.

But I did look at the original post too which was :

Norfolk Enchants_ wrote: »

Did they hand out skirts with those Handicaps too?.

So IMO, it wasnt banter and you were trolling and you kept it up via PM resulting in the longer ban.

As I said, that is my decision, should you wish you have two choices, you can request an Admin review of my decision and they will look into the case with a fresh set of eyes.

Or, you can accept my decision and sit out whats remaining of your ban.

The choice is yours.

Norfolk Enchants_

Lets break it down, you seem to think the ban came as a result of the OP, it didn't.

IMO, the ban was pretty warranted and you continued it to PM

The 1 day ban was as a result of the PM below.

From : Norfolk Enchants_
To : Keano
Date : 2015-05-21 08:07
Title : Lighten up dawg.

---

Lol wow, still overly sensitve and not getting golfing banter, perhaps you're too embarrassed of your own HC????.

I was attemping to get an explanation as to the in thread warning.
But the Mod comes back with a 1 day ban, I ask you does that seem like an appropriate reaction?.

GavRedKing

I'm not going to go back and forth with you on this.

I've made my decision, you've now got the chance to push this to someone higher up than myself, who will look at it from the start and with no bias or accept the decision.

Please advise what course you would like to take and I can invite an Admin to review this case or have it closed.

Norfolk Enchants_

GavRedKing wrote: »

I'm not going to go back and forth with you on this.

I've made my decision, you've now got the chance to push this to someone higher up than myself, who will look at it from the start and with no bias or accept the decision.

Please advise what course you would like to take and I can invite an Admin to review this case or have it closed.

If this isn't the the place for a back and forth, then where is?

I was hoping that perhaps this was going to be an opportunity to clear the air with the mod in question, and avoid this situation coming to the surface in the future again (as I have no doubt it will).
Whatever slant you'd like to put on, that fact remains, the OP was misinterpreted by the mod in question, and everything that followed is directly as a result of that misinterpretation.

oscarBravo

GavRedKing wrote: »

...you've the option to get an Admin review of my decision if you so wish.

GavRedKing wrote: »

...you can request an Admin review of my decision and they will look into the case with a fresh set of eyes.

GavRedKing wrote: »

I've made my decision, you've now got the chance to push this to someone higher up than myself, who will look at it from the start and with no bias or accept the decision.

Please advise what course you would like to take and I can invite an Admin to review this case or have it closed.

You've had three offers of an admin review and not taken any of them up. I think we're done here.