Are finance company entitled to look for passport/drivers license again

Flaccus

So I have loan from a couple of years ago that is nearly finished. Everything is in good standing. However it was sold to another finance company very recently. The original company wrote to me 2 months ago to inform me of this and also to let me know that although the loan is owned by someone else they would continue to administer it, payments as normal, nothing changes. Grand.

The other day I receive a letter from the original finance company, providing me with a statement and also on the letter they say I have "customer obligations" I must look after to help them be compliant with the Money Laundering Act 2010. Namely using the prepaid envelope they sent I have to post in a recent bill, bank statement to prove address, and my drivers license or passport and if it's a copy it must be signed by either a garda, judge, commissioner of oaths etc... They also suggested I could hand over the documentation in person when meeting one of their representatives (which I have never ever done nor did they offer me the opportunity to).

Now..when I took out this loan some years ago I would have provided a copy of my drivers license and bank statement, so I am wondering what has happened to this original information ?. Secondly, I am not too happy 'posting' sensitive information, and I certainly don't have time to go photo copying stuff and getting a guard to sign it.

Are they within their rights to expect me to provide this information ? Do I actually have a 'customer obligation' to do this.

coylemj

Flaccus wrote: »

Now..when I took out this loan some years ago I would have provided a copy of my drivers license and bank statement, so I am wondering what has happened to this original information ?. Secondly, I am not too happy 'posting' sensitive information, and I certainly don't have time to go photo copying stuff and getting a guard to sign it.

So don't.

Sounds like they screwed up and deleted the copies of the documents you provided. The ball is in your court here, there's nothing they can do if you ignore the letter. The 'obligations' they are referring to are their obligations, not yours.

pleasant Co.

Can't help with what obligations you may have but I would be asking them what has happened to the information you originally supplied them with, for peace of mind (and like you I would not be comfortable posting every detail an identity thief would need, even less so to a business who seem to have misplaced their original copies)

Flaccus

I agree. I will be ringing them next week. I have also emailed the Data Protection Commission about this matter.

delahuntv

What's the problem?

They're request is very simple and it is to ensure they are fully in compliance of money laundering legislation.

The original compnay who you signed with probably have your original file but may not be allowed to pass it to the new company and the new compnay simply want to ensure they are 100% compliant with their legal obligations.

I doubt if they will do anything to force you, but if by chance you are using them or one of their subsiduaries for a future loan, they may decided you are not a custoem they want.

My attitude is it does not harm, so I provide it. The rules and regulations about data that these companies must adhere to ae so strenuous that I would have zero concerns.

pleasant Co.

delahuntv wrote: »

What's the problem?

They're request is very simple and it is to ensure they are fully in compliance of money laundering legislation.

The original compnay who you signed with probably have your original file but may not be allowed to pass it to the new company and the new compnay simply want to ensure they are 100% compliant with their legal obligations.

I doubt if they will do anything to force you, but if by chance you are using them or one of their subsiduaries for a future loan, they may decided you are not a custoem they want.

My attitude is it does not harm, so I provide it. The rules and regulations about data that these companies must adhere to ae so strenuous that I would have zero concerns.

You misread, according to the op it is the original company who are looking for the details again, not the new company - which would be a different scenario.

dudara

Moved to Banking & Insurance & Pensions

dudara

Jim2007

coylemj wrote: »

So don't.

Sounds like they screwed up and deleted the copies of the documents you provided. The ball is in your court here, there's nothing they can do if you ignore the letter. The 'obligations' they are referring to are their obligations, not yours.

First of it is not a once off obligation, it is on going and banks/other financial institutions are required to update this stuff from time to time. And they are required to report the matter should they be unable to obtained the required information, which means you may well have a visit from the Garda/Revenue etc...

coylemj

Jim2007 wrote: »

First of it is not a once off obligation, it is on going and banks/other financial institutions are required to update this stuff from time to time. And they are required to report the matter should they be unable to obtained the required information, which means you may well have a visit from the Garda/Revenue etc...

Nonsense. Since when do banks need to update this data 'from time to time'?

Otherwise, can you please quote the legislation the cops will be relying on when they crash down the OP's front door at 6 a.m. to get a copy of his passport?

Flaccus

I took out the loan prior to the money laundering act in 2010 and since then my drivers license has expired. So maybe it's a case of them just updating their records. It seems odd that this law was introduced in 2010 and I have not heard a peep out of them until now. Could it be because they have sold their loan book to another company and have realised they have nothing on file and are now not compliant. However the way the letter was worded, the bit about me providing them information is under the title 'Customer Obligations'

When I speak with the company next week I will ask them this and what happened my original info. That is after I hear back from the the data protection commissioner regarding my rights on the matter. They did give me the option on the letter of handing over the documents in person when I meet one of their representatives. But they gave no information about how to go about this. If it turns out I am obliged to provide them this information then I will comply but I will ask that they arrange a representative to come to me as I will not be posting such documentation. I seriously doubt revenue/cops will be getting on to me about this.

By the way, they want the passport or drivers license copy to be certified by a garda, oaths commissioner, judge etc.. Do they seriously think people have time to be doing this sort of thing in their daily lives. Will the gardai even oblige me ?

daheff

coylemj wrote: »

Nonsense. Since when do banks need to update this data 'from time to time'?

Otherwise, can you please quote the legislation the cops will be relying on when they crash down the OP's front door at 6 a.m. to get a copy of his passport?

I'd imagine it would be related to
Criminal Justice (Money Laundering and Terrorist Financing) Act 2010 as amended by part 2 of the Criminal Justice act 2013.
http://www.antimoneylaundering.ie/legislation/criminal-justice-act.html
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/money_and_tax/personal_finance/financial_institutions/money_laundering_in_ireland.html

Basically it looks for financial institutions to identify people/entities who it transacts with to ensure they arent terrorist organisations.


Not sure that it would involve the cops crashing down your door at 6am...but you might get a 'friendly' visit requesting you to provide proof of identity before it gets out of hand.


In the OPs case I would be pushing back on the bank and tell them you provided documentation back when you took out the loan and there have been no changes (unless there have been) and that they should refer back to this documentation. If said bank then say they no longer have the documentation (and they would have an ongoing requirement to retain these documents for up to 6/7 years after your relationship with them ended), then you should report that to the data commissioner. Any expense (including time) you then incur to provide to them should be passed back to them (agree in writing beforehand).

daheff

Flaccus wrote: »

By the way, they want the passport or drivers license copy to be certified by a garda, oaths commissioner, judge etc.. Do they seriously think people have time to be doing this sort of thing in their daily lives. Will the gardai even oblige me ?

Usually the bank can certify this themselves. If its something they really need, you can always tell them that an officer of the bank can come out to your house at a time that suits you and have sight of the originals of your documents and certify a copy to satisfy their AML/KYC requirements.

Carawaystick

Here's what I sent to AIB when they tried this crap.

Invoice them EUR5000 for consultaton fees to update records they already should have. CC the director of corporate enforcement, any 2 directors of the bank(from headed paper) and Patrick Honohan.

Point out that they ( the bank and directors) have to comply with the money laundering legislation they tried to scare you with in their letter to you, but you don't but for the measly sum of 5 grand mentioned earlier you will be nice and help them out.

No 5 grand, but no reply and they wrote of my four euros of overdraft from fees on a dormant account I don't use any more.

Central bank guidelines
http://www.centralbank.ie/regulation/processes/anti-money-laundering/Pages/requirements-guidance.aspx

delahuntv

Carawaystick wrote: »

Here's what I sent to AIB when they tried this crap.

Invoice them EUR5000 for consultaton fees to update records they already should have. CC the director of corporate enforcement, any 2 directors of the bank(from headed paper) and Patrick Honohan.

Point out that they ( the bank and directors) have to comply with the money laundering legislation they tried to scare you with in their letter to you, but you don't but for the measly sum of 5 grand mentioned earlier you will be nice and help them out.

No 5 grand, but no reply and they wrote of my four euros of overdraft from fees on a dormant account I don't use any more.

Central bank guidelines
http://www.centralbank.ie/regulation/processes/anti-money-laundering/Pages/requirements-guidance.aspx

no reply, cos something like that gets filed under "BIN" after the first line is read

I still can;t understand that people will go to so much bother including "contacting data protection officer" just becasue a financial institution wants to update files.

With so many mergers, changes going on and in today's world of easy information storage, I find its always best to have a good relationship with your bank as it tends to give you a slight edge if you need anything.

Alternative is to throw a fit when they ask for simple ID / docs, they put a little note on your account and then you are looking for an overdraft or something, and you wonder why its rejected?

Fpor some, they get a kick from this - for me I prefer to go along with what is asked once there is proper reason. It makes life easier!

Flaccus

delahuntv wrote: »

no reply, cos something like that gets filed under "BIN" after the first line is read

I still can;t understand that people will go to so much bother including "contacting data protection officer" just becasue a financial institution wants to update files.

With so many mergers, changes going on and in today's world of easy information storage, I find its always best to have a good relationship with your bank as it tends to give you a slight edge if you need anything.

Alternative is to throw a fit when they ask for simple ID / docs, they put a little note on your account and then you are looking for an overdraft or something, and you wonder why its rejected?

Fpor some, they get a kick from this - for me I prefer to go along with what is asked once there is proper reason. It makes life easier!

In my case this is a financial institution and not my bank per say. Also my real problem is sending this stuff in the post and the fact they should have it already.

pleasant Co.

delahuntv wrote: »

Alternative is to throw a fit when they ask for simple ID / docs, they put a little note on your account and then you are looking for an overdraft or something, and you wonder why its rejected?

Are you oblivious to to irony in this comment in relation to the actual issue at hand?

Fred Swanson

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