Back To Education Allowance + Other Benefits?

ConfusedGuy92

So as usual I'm confused by the wording they use on welfare.ie and citizensinformation.

I'm going to be in receipt of Back to Education Allowance for 2015/2016. I enquired with the college about fees and they informed me that the fees are €3000, to be paid half by the start of October and the other half in January. (Side note, how are new students affording 5grand for college fees and accommodation?).

I've seen a couple of things on the websites, but these are the things that I'm seeing as more promising

Most undergraduate students attending publicly funded third-level courses do not have to pay tuition fees. Under the terms of the Free Fees Initiative, the Department of Education and Skills pays the fees to the colleges instead.

Most colleges charge an annual student contribution, formerly called the student services charge. It is also known as a registration fee and it covers student services and examinations. The amount of the contribution varies from one institution to another. The maximum rate of the student contribution for the academic year 2014-2015 is €2,750.

Budget 2013: It was announced that the student contribution will be €3,000 in 2015-2016.

If you are getting Back to Education Allowance (BTEA) you may qualify for exemption from the student contribution. More information about the BTEA and the student contribution can be found in our document about social welfare payments and the student grant.

Does this mean that as a recipient of Back To Education Allowance, I will be exempt of the €3000? (I'm assuming the 3000 I was told about from the college is the Student Contribution as the first sentence above says tuition fees are no longer paid and just because the amount is the same for my fees and the student contribution).


In addition to the above, the other thing I'm wondering about is Rent Supplement. On citizensinformation, I see this...

Are attending full-time education. However, if you are getting a Back to Education Allowance, are participating in the Back to Education Programme or in the Momentum Programme you may be entitled to Rent Supplement.

I know the famous wording of "may be" is written in there, but does anyone know the requirements of getting rent supplement on BTEA?

cytex

ConfusedGuy92 wrote: »

So as usual I'm confused by the wording they use on welfare.ie and citizensinformation.

I'm going to be in receipt of Back to Education Allowance for 2015/2016. I enquired with the college about fees and they informed me that the fees are €3000, to be paid half by the start of October and the other half in January. (Side note, how are new students affording 5grand for college fees and accommodation?).

I've seen a couple of things on the websites, but these are the things that I'm seeing as more promising

Most undergraduate students attending publicly funded third-level courses do not have to pay tuition fees. Under the terms of the Free Fees Initiative, the Department of Education and Skills pays the fees to the colleges instead.

Most colleges charge an annual student contribution, formerly called the student services charge. It is also known as a registration fee and it covers student services and examinations. The amount of the contribution varies from one institution to another. The maximum rate of the student contribution for the academic year 2014-2015 is €2,750.

Budget 2013: It was announced that the student contribution will be €3,000 in 2015-2016.

If you are getting Back to Education Allowance (BTEA) you may qualify for exemption from the student contribution. More information about the BTEA and the student contribution can be found in our document about social welfare payments and the student grant.

Does this mean that as a recipient of Back To Education Allowance, I will be exempt of the €3000? (I'm assuming the 3000 I was told about from the college is the Student Contribution as the first sentence above says tuition fees are no longer paid and just because the amount is the same for my fees and the student contribution).


In addition to the above, the other thing I'm wondering about is Rent Supplement. On citizensinformation, I see this...

Are attending full-time education. However, if you are getting a Back to Education Allowance, are participating in the Back to Education Programme or in the Momentum Programme you may be entitled to Rent Supplement.

I know the famous wording of "may be" is written in there, but does anyone know the requirements of getting rent supplement on BTEA?

you need to apply to susi.ie for a grant . this will pay the fees it is means tested. you want get the matenince portion of this grant as you are getting beta

ShaShaBear

You apply through SUSI for a student grant to cover the fees portion only. You are not looking for the maintenance portion as it is substantially less than what you would probably get on BTEA (in most cases) and you can only claim one or the other (ie you can only get regular payments from either BTEA or the grant, but can get the once-off payment for fees yearly if you are getting BTEA).

Apply online through SUSI as soon as is possible - they require LOADS of documents and get very backlogged!

As for rent allowance, yes - you may be entitled to receive it if you meet all of the other criteria like renting privately for 6 months and/or being on the council housing list. Best to apply for it now if you think you are entitled, as there is a lot of paperwork to fill out, in some cases there is a meeting with the Community Welfare Officer, AND there will be a "surprise" inspection of your current home to ensure that you are not hiding other permanent residents like a partner or housemate on a couch. Obviously it is possible to get it once you start college, but the inspection is usually done during business hours, and the application cannot be complete without it!

If you are renting privately and on a SW payment, you might be entitled to fuel allowance come September/October, which is another €20 per week up until April (I think). So look into applying for that if you can!

And finally, find out if your college has any scholarships for hardship students. I know DkIT has a substantial one that is very poorly advertised that my sister availed of in her first year, and that I would have been more than entitled to had I known about it to apply!

The Diddakoi

I was told if you are in receipt of BTEA you won't qualify for a Susi grant.

cytex

you will Qualiify for the fees portion of the grant and you need to apply as if you are applying for the matience grant but let them know you are on beta .

I did this last year so 100% you can get the fees ring susi if in doubt on 0761 08 7874 the are extremely help full and let you know exactly what you need to do.

ConfusedGuy92

Cheers guys really appreciate it. I actually phoned up SUSI to ask this but the guy spent 20 minutes telling me how to apply online. Good customer service and covering all bases but an bit unneeded. I asked him a few times if I can apply for the fees grant but he replied "Possibly but you wont get the maintenance grant"....twice. I wasn't asking about that but he was helpful enough so I can't complain.

And cheers ShaSha about Fuel Allowance I'll look into that too. I lived in college before but on my mum and dad's dollar so I'm assuming every penny will help this time around haha.

Cheers though lads. A lot of helpful info in here.

Another question; that bottom part of the bold text said I may get an exemption from the student contribution on whatever the Free Fees scheme is. Would that have anything to do with the SUSI grant? I ask this cause if my fee grant is being means tested, I'm probably still over the limit (and 0% chance of getting 1.5k off my folks by September, let alone 3 grand by December).

cytex

If you get Beta you will be covered for all fees through susi . (so you don't have to pay anything towards any fees at all) otherwise yes it is means tested .

You wont get any other grant bar btea if you are getting btea (which covers all your benifits that you get before beta starts) .

ConfusedGuy92

cytex wrote: »

If you get Beta you will be covered for all fees through susi . (so you don't have to pay anything towards any fees at all) otherwise yes it is means tested .

You wont get any other grant bar btea if you are getting btea (which covers all your benifits that you get before beta starts) .

Right so it isn't means tested if I'm on BETA? That's good to know. I'm due to have a talk with Citizen's Information on Monday anyways just every little piece of information is solid you know?

ShaShaBear

ConfusedGuy92 wrote: »

Right so it isn't means tested if I'm on BETA? That's good to know. I'm due to have a talk with Citizen's Information on Monday anyways just every little piece of information is solid you know?

It still is means tested, but if you qualify for the full rate of BTEA, your means are low enough to qualify you for the fees portion of the grant as well.

ConfusedGuy92

ShaShaBear wrote: »

It still is means tested, but if you qualify for the full rate of BTEA, your means are low enough to qualify you for the fees portion of the grant as well.

I qualify for full BTEA because I'm going to be living alone. Is the grant not still means tested to my parents even once I'm moved out?

ShaShaBear

ConfusedGuy92 wrote: »

I qualify for full BTEA because I'm going to be living alone. Is the grant not still means tested to my parents even once I'm moved out?

It depends on your age and how long you are living alone as far as I know.

ConfusedGuy92

ShaShaBear wrote: »

It depends on your age and how long you are living alone as far as I know.

According to the social, I'll get full BTEA if I live alone regardless.

That's why I was wondering about the Free Fees exemption since I doubt I qualify for any grant.

ShaShaBear

ConfusedGuy92 wrote: »

According to the social, I'll get full BTEA if I live alone regardless.

That's why I was wondering about the Free Fees exemption since I doubt I qualify for any grant.

I meant the grant, if you are over 23 and living independant since a certain year (not sure what year) then you are considered independant and are not assessed on your parents. Apply for the fees anyway, it can't hurt!

ConfusedGuy92

Yeah you're right, while the wording is "exemption" I actually think they meant that they may qualify for a Fees grant, which I'll be applying for tonight.

Do any of you know if there's a number of something for a head office for BTEA? I'm asking if I'll be Means Tested if I move away. Here's been my answers so far:-

Cavan Intreo Office:- You shouldn't be, but you'd have to change your claim to Sligo.
Sligo Intreo Office:- No, you wouldn't.
Citizen's Information Guy:- BTEA isn't means tested?
Citizen's Information Guy's Phone-A-Friend:- It should work like JSA so it would be Means Tested if you lived there for the last year.
Welfare.ie Helpline:- BTEA isn't means tested?
Welfare.ie Helpline's Phone-A-Friend: No it wouldn't be means tested, does this have anything to do with stamps? I'll put you through 2 someone else *on hold for 2 minutes and hangs up*

So I just can't get straight information. It seems that half of these professionals don't even know that BTEA is means tested (and has been for a minimum of the last 2 years). It's pretty much the deciding factor of me going to college. If I get 110 again, I can't afford rent. If I get 160, I can afford rent. Simple as that you know? If I can get a job down there, no problem, sorted, but I kind of have to be down there to get a job (although got a few emails waiting). Even more annoying is that I have a house viewing on Friday but really I can't get a straight answer from anyone.

Is there some sort of direct BTEA providers helpline or anything like that? The people who physically decide if you qualify, do they have a number?

Balagan

Means test
The means test for a student grant in 2015-2016 is based on your family's gross income for the previous full tax year (2014). However, if you or your family have had a change of circumstances (which is likely to be permanent) since 31 December 2014, your changed circumstances may be taken into account.

Reckonable income for a student grant is gross income from all sources. Some social welfare payments are excluded from 'reckonable income' for the purposes of student grants - see more details on reckonable income on susi.ie and also in the Student Grant Scheme 2015.

If you were ordinarily resident with your parents from October 1 of the year before the year of entry to the course, you are considered dependent on your parents and your income (if any) is assessed together with your parents' income(s). An allowance is made for your earnings outside of term-time – up to €3,809 currently.

Independent mature candidates are candidates aged 23 or over on 1 January in the year of entry to the course. To be assessed as an independent mature candidate you must also live separately from your parents from 1 October of the year before the year of entry to the course. If you are an independent student, you are assessed on your own income (and that of your spouse, civil partner or cohabitant, if applicable).

The only points at which you can reclassify from a dependent student to an independent student are when you:

Progress from further education to higher education
Have a 3 year break in your studies
Are returning as a second chance student after a five year break in your studies
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/education/third_level_education/fees_and_supports_for_third_level_education/maintenance_grant_schemes_for_students_on_third_level_courses.html

ConfusedGuy92

Thanks but it's not the grant I'm referring to, I understand the rules for the fees grant I'll be applying to but it's BTEA's means testing I mean.

Balagan

Rates

If you are a new BTEA participant aged over 26 your weekly BTEA rate will be equal to your previous social protection payment (the payment that qualified you for participation in the scheme). You may also qualify for increases for a qualified adult and qualified children.

If you are a new participant aged under 26 and you were getting a reduced age-related Jobseeker's Allowance payment, you will get a new personal maximum BTEA rate of €160 (any means you have will be deducted from this rate).

You can get your Back to Education Allowance paid directly to your bank account. It is paid for the duration of the course. If you were previously getting a jobseeker's payment, you do not get the Back to Education Allowance during the summer period between academic years. Your local social welfare office will contact you in March or April to ask the date of last attendance for the current academic year and you will not be paid BTEA beyond this date. You may get BTEA during the summer if you are on work placement or work experience that is an essential part of your course.

If you defer a year of study you are treated as a new entrant when you return to your course.

Keeping your secondary benefits
If you qualify for the Back to Education Allowance, you can keep your entitlement to any secondary benefits you already have, for example, Fuel Allowance or Rent Supplement. However, any increase in income may affect your entitlement to Rent Supplement or the amount of supplement you get. For example, this can happen if you have additional income from part-time work.
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/social_welfare_payments/back_to_education/back_to_education_allowance.html

ConfusedGuy92

Yeah thats the question though, do I still get means deductions when I'm living alone? No where on the CI or Welfare.ie websites does it say anything about how means testing relating to BTEA works. I know from the physical form to fill out for BTEA though it just asks what your rent is and who you're living with, so in theory if I'm living away from my mother and father I wouldn't even mention them or what they get. (For BTEA, that's all still relevant for the fees grant).

So after my terrible meeting with Citizen's Information, I gave them a call. The woman I got through to was checking her information from books and everything and had me on hold for ages (which meant she was working). I found this funny since not only did the guy I met with in person not have a single book in front of him, but he also didn't even know it was supposed to be means tested.

Anyways, she said it was tricky as she'd never dealt with that before. She found that deductions and everything only ever relates to when you are living with your parents, so she said that to the best of her knowledge that you wouldn't be getting means tested on BTEA if you lived away from home.

I'm going to go into the office where I'm moving this week and get someone to discuss it with me in person, but last time I contacted them they adamantly said I wouldn't be means tested. It's just the mix of information since then that has me worried.

Since the woman who did her research in CI seemed to think I wouldn't be means tested, and the person who dealt with me from Sligo Intreo Office was confident I wouldn't be, I'm hoping this is to be the case. Has anyone here ever moved away from in the months before getting BTEA before?

Balagan

If you move away from home before applying for BTEA and get your Jobseekers payment sorted to reflect the dropping of means testing in respect of 'the benefit and privilege' of living with your parents, then if you are successful in getting BTEA it will follow on with that same amended payment, but if your JSA is less than €160 due to age reduced payment, the payment while on BTEA during the academic year will be upped to €160 minus any reduction for means you yourself personally have.

ConfusedGuy92

Balagan wrote: »

If you move away from home before applying for BTEA and get your Jobseekers payment sorted to reflect the dropping of means testing in respect of 'the benefit and privilege' of living with your parents, then if you are successful in getting BTEA it will follow on with that same amended payment, but if your JSA is less than €160 due to age reduced payment, the payment while on BTEA during the academic year will be upped to €160 minus any reduction for means you yourself personally have.

Cheers yeah that goes along the same lines of what the Citizen's Information woman said. I'd be changing my local office to Sligo, where I'd me moving to, and upon doing so I'd be changing all the information to me living independently.

Off of what you said, would I have to do with with my JSA before applying for BTEA or could I just do it with my BTEA form (since BTEA come out a little bit before I'd be moving so I'd want to make sure I'm still getting my JSA at my current address until I move you know?)

Thanks for helping me as well mate, really appreciate it.

kissmequick

Is SUSI specifically all Full-time? Has anyone any experience of exceptions receiving assistance in the case of a Part-time Course?

ConfusedGuy92

^Couldn't tell you mate. Never heard of anyone getting it for Part Time but I'd assume there's some sort of coverage.

So I'll drop an update incase anyone was reading this.

After the terrible C.I. meeting and the woman on welfare.ie being clueless, I phoned up C.I. again and she said that although it's not something she knows about, she thinks BTEA wouldn't be tested against your parents. After emailing welfare.ie, another woman phoned me and said almost the exact same thing.

I went down to Sligo to pay the deposit yesterday and went into the Intreo office while I was there. They said that as long as I change my claim before applying for BTEA to their office, then it wouldn't be means tested, BIG weight off my shoulders.

Now it's just all about SUSI and the grant. I THINK I'm just under the amount for the full student contribution grant, so unless something goes really wrong I think everything is looking good. Even if I only got half the grant, I'd be able to find some way to muster up the 1500 by Christmas. You can work and be on BETA so if that's the case I could look for a job and cover the fees, and if all else fails I could try and get a loan to cover it.

I haven't got Rent Supplement figured out yet so I might take a look at that and see what the situation is.

ShaShaBear

Just be aware if you work, next year's payment would be means tested on your own earnings and could be reduced accordingly. Not really an issue if you still have the job but something to be aware of all the same.

MouseTail

kissmequick wrote: »

Is SUSI specifically all Full-time? Has anyone any experience of exceptions receiving assistance in the case of a Part-time Course?

SUSI is for full time courses. People support themselves during part time study, or in some cases, if DSP believe doing the course will not impede the search for full time work the student can go on Part Time Education Option (PTEO), and keep their social welfare payment.

tirchonaill86

ShaShaBear wrote: »

Just be aware if you work, next year's payment would be means tested on your own earnings and could be reduced accordingly. Not really an issue if you still have the job but something to be aware of all the same.

Would you have any idea how much you can earn per week to fall below the threshold for the following academic year to still get BTEA? My girlfriend is beginning a 2 year postgrad course in september, think she is entitled to tuition fees up to 6,270 paid, no maintenance grant, she can keep her qualifying social welfare payment (BTEA) plus rent supplement/fuel allowance (we presume), can she work on top of this during academic year? How much could she earn per week to still remain eligible for the BTEA for year 2 of her postgrad course?

Income disregards...reckonable income its all a minefield and its like North Korea at times...nobody seems to know nothing or different people on the phone tell her 20 different things like malfunctioning robots. Its hard to understand what is regarded/disregarded etc...maybe its meant to be this way to wreck heads i don't know. But consistent information across the board from agents would be greatly beneficial to individuals in an already stressful transition period in their lives.

FordCapri1985

Kinda sounds like youre on the same boat as me confusedguy92,i was just wondering if your on BTEA and looking to get the fee grant does the adjacent/non adjacent rate apply to the Fee Grant also or just the mainteanance grant? reason i ask is cause i got accepted into a PLC course in cork and lookin to relocate there to do it for the year and live independently but does that mean i wont get the 3000 tuition paid for the next year if i go to a college in cork the because its not beyond 45km away?

ShaShaBear

FordCapri1985 wrote: »

Kinda sounds like youre on the same boat as me confusedguy92,i was just wondering if your on BTEA and looking to get the fee grant does the adjacent/non adjacent rate apply to the Fee Grant also or just the mainteanance grant? reason i ask is cause i got accepted into a PLC course in cork and lookin to relocate there to do it for the year and live independently but does that mean i wont get the 3000 tuition paid for the next year if i go to a college in cork the because its not beyond 45km away?

Fees are paid regardless, the maintenance part is based on distance away

eastbono

If you are on BTEA you can get the fees part of the grant but not the maintenance.

ConfusedGuy92

Thought I'd update this again. You never know who might read it and be able to pick something up.

So I wasn't eligible for SUSI. Turns out that it's still tested to my parents and I'm still over the threshold. When I applied, I was 23. I really have to wonder if SUSI thought I was going to be able to ask my parents for the 3 grand...every year...for college fees and also the like 2-3 grand for accommodation. I know I could pay for it myself of course through working for years...but the fact that SUSI went to my parents income means they for some reason think I'm in a position to get like 6 grand off my folks every year. Anyways...

So I took the 2015/2016 year off and did some digging. I was on the housing list from early in the summer of 2015, but a single non father 23 year old isn't the highest up their list, so this meant I wouldn't be eligible as an independent student which means I'd still not qualify for SUSI at the end of this summer.

So I looked at alternatives and found out that I'm eligible for tuition fee grants in Scotland (where I'm originally from). I got that sorted and was accepted. In normal life deciding to be annoying fashion, this is the ONE year they have decided to block BTEA for people abroad. My best mate is in Wales getting BTEA, and his will continue as he's already on it...but I won't be eligible for it at all...urgh. Now 24, the important part was getting the tuition fees sorted. Sucks that I missed out a year of work because of BTEA just cause the rules changed but being positive, it's not the end of the world to work through college to pay my rent and stuff.

Question: I'll have moved out before August this year. I'll be working, but earning a small amount as it's just for the sake of rent and stuff. If I'm in Scotland for the 2016/2017 year, will I be eligible to be assessed as an Independent Mature Student (and in turn, be eligible for a maintenance grant?). I haven't done a course at this level before (let alone the second year of it) either. I'd feel a bit cheap doing this. I'm from Glasgow, moved to Ireland when I was 11 13 years ago and now am returning home...but at the same time because of my classification of being in Ireland, I'm not eligible for any Scottish aid (residency based) so really if Scotland consider me to be Irish in this regard...I guess I should too eh?

I might actually throw in a SUSI application anyways for this year now that I think of it. I have my tuition fees sorted but if there's ever a time for me to catch a lucky break, 2016 is the year haha.

Karen23

My son is 18 and starting his second year in college this September. He didn't qualify for BTEA for his first year because he was under 18 and not signing on for the required 78 days. He's been signing on since his course finished last May so this year he'll have both of the requirements that stopped him from qualifying last year but now I read that you also need to be two years out of formal education. He sat the leaving cert in May 2015, will that be what stops him qualifying this year ? Every year there seems to be something.

LegacyUser

Karen23 wrote: »

My son is 18 and starting his second year in college this September. He didn't qualify for BTEA for his first year because he was under 18 and not signing on for the required 78 days. He's been signing on since his course finished last May so this year he'll have both of the requirements that stopped him from qualifying last year but now I read that you also need to be two years out of formal education. He sat the leaving cert in May 2015, will that be what stops him qualifying this year ? Every year there seems to be something.

Is his course 2 or more years long? you can't legitimately sign on during the summer months of a 3rd level course.

Karen23

doesntsoundright wrote: »

Is his course 2 or more years long? you can't legitimately sign on during the summer months of a 3rd level course.

It's a one year full-time course at Post-Leaving Certificate level resulting in QQI Level 5 Major Award