Friend having massive problems with HWVS

N64

Hi all, one of my friends is just asking me for advice regarding his build that he got last year. Everything was running fine until about a month and a bit back. His graphics card started to produce nasty artifacts in games so he sent it back to HWVS under the premise that he'd receive a repair on the card. Four weeks have passed since the card has arrived at HWVS and they sent him this email:

"We can exchange the graphics card with the alternative you want to have. (Article No. xxxx ) Unfortunately the card has already been used one year and there can only be refunded the amount of 222,46€. If you want to have the alternative graphics card we would decrease ist price by this amount and you would have to pay the difference for the new one. Just let us know if you want the exchange like this and then we can let you know the price you will have to pay. For the new graphics card you will of course get a new invoice with a new guarantee time.

We await your response with interest."

The original price he paid for the card was €360, so that's a massive sum of money they are asking him to pay for a card that is equivalent to the one he had. Am I right in thinking that HWVS aren't right under law to only offer him this as a form of redress?

Xenoronin

Well, from what I'm seeing, and I can't see what the new card will be. It's whatever cost that is, minus the 222.46€. Pretty big discount but not exactly a straight swap. I assume it wasn't repairable (if attempted at all) and outside of warrenty so this isn't the worst deal ever.

frozenfrozen

do they think he just wants to exchange it after a year of use or do they know it's defective? it kind of reads like they're being nice and saying they can give him a part exchange on it?

TheDoc

Make sure to hit home that the card is defective and he is seeking a warranty replacement/repair, and not looking to change the card from a change of heart.

This is why I don't use HWVS. I made one purchase based on the recommendations here, got a motherboard DOA and went through a 4 week RMA process. That was four weeks trying to convey the problem and get them to understand what the hell was going on. Was another two weeks before I actually got the replacement board.

I found their English to be terrible, and plenty of passing the buck (Two stories of "oh sorry guy dealing with your ticket left company).

I've stayed clear of them and paid the slightly more RRP from places like Amazon and Overclockers, but places I know provide top notch customer service.

Sounds like they don't understand you are after a warranty replacement. Make sure your friend conveys that, as they are subject to EU legislation for consumer rights, like every other EU member. Most likely they don't get what he wants to happen here. Also worth checking the GPU is in fact still under warranty, and remembering that some manafacturers provide up to three year warranties. So first year covered by retailer but the additional you can deal direct with manafacturer.

N64

The card they are offering the €222 off is the GTX 970, so it's the equivalent of the GTX 770 but just a generation newer If I'm correct. He says that the card has been returned to EVGA for a repair 4 weeks ago and when he called EVGA up, they said they have no record of the serial number on their system and that a normal repair takes 1-3 working days to process, even for a retailer RMA (they just send out a new card) When he said this to HWVS over the phone, the customer service rep straight out said he was lying (not even being subtle about it apparently) and that it takes 4 weeks. He has asked to speak to a manager but according to the CS rep, no manager in the business speaks English.

I'll pass on the feedback and keep you guys updated. Thanks

Xenoronin

Wow, that is just seriously bad customer service. "The customer is never wrong, never insult the customer" is customer service 101... You'd be fired before you could say another word to a customer in most jobs.

TheDoc

And this is why I will never deal with them again. They have no escalation process for English, and I was trapped in a loop dealing with unhelpful tier 1 support/CS.

N64

Friend just forwarded me on the response he got from the RMA team. He did mention that the wanted to do everything through the warranty process:

"Hi xxx,

I can clearly understand your anger concerning this issue. However as the card has been used for one year the full price cannot be refunded or be taken to reduce a new graphics card. We are extremely short on workers in all departments and so it takes extremely long for the repairs to be returned to the supplier. We can of course provide you a graphics card on the value I already mentioned but that would be a card with less power than the one before which is what you do not want to have, I guess.

Kind regards"

He's not very happy with this response as it's been 5 weeks (from Monday) that the card has been stuck there. I personally think that he should go down the small claims route? They seem to be taking the right old p*ss

Serephucus

Why are you going through HWVS in the first place? Submit an RMA with whoever the manufacturer of the card is. They have dedicated staff for this, and it'll be much faster.

The only reason you should go to HWVS for anything is if they sent you something wrong or broken in shipping. For warranty replacements, always use the manufacturer*.

*Unless you're dealing with Amazon, because they're awesome. :P

Lemming

OP, do you know anyone with a good control of either verbal or written German who can read them the riot act? Because their behaviour to-date has been absolutely shameful.

Varik

N64 wrote: »

Friend just forwarded me on the response he got from the RMA team. He did mention that the wanted to do everything through the warranty process:

"Hi xxx,

I can clearly understand your anger concerning this issue. However as the card has been used for one year the full price cannot be refunded or be taken to reduce a new graphics card. We are extremely short on workers in all departments and so it takes extremely long for the repairs to be returned to the supplier. We can of course provide you a graphics card on the value I already mentioned but that would be a card with less power than the one before which is what you do not want to have, I guess.

Kind regards"

He's not very happy with this response as it's been 5 weeks (from Monday) that the card has been stuck there. I personally think that he should go down the small claims route? They seem to be taking the right old p*ss

He's not getting the full purchase price if he goes to the small claims court for a refund, and looking online a used 770 is going for less than offered and it's the used price that the small claims court will base it off and not what was paid but the cost to replace it with the same; ie a year+ used card.

Also it'd be the EU small claims court which would drag everything out much longer than if it was the Irish one.

The trouble is that the performance/cost of this card isn't really matched by any other card from them, closest would be a 960 which is below a 770 in performance by a small margin but also cheaper.

If I was him I'd get the 970 and see if they can do an additional discount due to the trouble caused and fact he'd rather get the same again or a alternative in performance which there really isn't (960 is a bit slower).

RoyalMarine

Get the card back and contact the manufacturer as Serephucus said above.

N64

Yeah, going through the manufacturer always is the best option, especially with EVGA as they are fantastic to deal with. He didn't want to pay the shipping costs as it was about €40 to get it delivered to their euro RMA centre, though.

HWVS hasn't informed him of where exactly the card is and EVGA still have no record of the serial number of the card on their system. He doesn't want to go with a lesser card as he plays games with two monitors so it would be a good bit of a performance hit if he went with a card that was in the €200 price range.

I'm pretty sure that both Irish and EU legalisation states that if a replacement is issued, it must be similar enough to what the original product does. In either case, I'll tell him to get on to the ECC tomorrow and see what they say. I don't think I'll be purchasing through HWVS anytime soon with this sort of carry on

Varik

N64 wrote: »

I'm pretty sure that both Irish and EU legalisation states that if a replacement is issued, it must be similar enough to what the original product does. In either case, I'll tell him to get on to the ECC tomorrow and see what they say. I don't think I'll be purchasing through HWVS anytime soon with this sort of carry on

For a replacement yes, but for refunds you can see a lot of threads on it for large items such as TVs and the like on the consumer forum and it's generally never the full amount.

the_syco

Would it of any use asking for the board back, so that you can send it to the manufacturer yourself, as the manufacturer has stated that they never received it?

Or would it run the risk of the manufacturer saying that a 3rd party (HWVS) tampering with it voided the warranty?

TheDoc

the_syco wrote: »

Would it of any use asking for the board back, so that you can send it to the manufacturer yourself, as the manufacturer has stated that they never received it?

Or would it run the risk of the manufacturer saying that a 3rd party (HWVS) tampering with it voided the warranty?

HWVS shouldn't be opening products to the point of voiding warranties, if its still under warranty.

Whats important here is for your friend to ascertain if the item is still under warranty. The warranty is from the date the payment was taken(not when the card was received)

Check HWVS policies, but like most I'd imagine it is one year warranty.
Then check the warranty provided by the manufacturer. Sometimes it can be 2-3 years manufacturer warranty.

If the card is out of warranty there isn't any comeback. And what they are offering is just good will.

If the card is under the one year warranty from HWVS, they are obliged to deal with the issue. Your friend is entitled to a replacement, refund or repair as provided by the retailer (Retailer decides, not consumer)

Replacement needs to be like for like, or of matching quality. Consumer does not have to accept a price difference resulting in more being paid, as this does not represent the original tender of purchase. Retailer should be waiving additional fees, but that is mandatory.

If the retailer cannot repair this card(by a certified technician) they need to send for repair and are liable for the costs involved, not your friend.

If the above two cannot be met, then they should offer you a full refund, including shipping. Shipping is a grey area, but something I always manage to get refunded.

But again, if the card is out of warranty, **** out of luck.

If its still under warranty by manafacturer, get the card back from HWVS, do not accept any charges from them due to their horrendous customer care and inability to effectively communicate with English customers.

And let this be a lesson as to why HWVS are a terrible company to deal with, cheaper price isnt always best, and why I've always had a bee in my bonnet with them being carte blanch recomended around here to new buyers for so long.

EoinHef

TheDoc wrote: »

And let this be a lesson as to why HWVS are a terrible company to deal with, cheaper price isnt always best, and why I've always had a bee in my bonnet with them being carte blanch recomended around here to new buyers for so long.

Absolutely nothing stopping you recomending builds from different e tailers on any thread here so i dont see the problem?

Nearly anyone who posts here regularly would readily admit HWVS customer service is far from ideal. Ive had to return one product,took about 2 and a half weeks and i had my replacement. Not great but far from the horror story you paint their customer service as.

This thread is an example of a customer not knowing there part in the process. People need to know if there stuff is in warranty or not. No use coming in complaining saying its HWVS fault if we dont know all the facts. If the product is no longer under warranty from HWS and has no additional manufacturer warranty what HWVS are offering is actually beyond what there required to do.

Again though,dont have all the info. Nobody has indicated the card is/is not still covered by any warranty

N64

What you are saying above is a huge misconception about warranties in the world of consumer law. A warranty is something offered in addition to your statutory rights. Hardwareversand are legally obligated to fix the problem here, there is no question about that (although since the card is only a bit over a year old, it still is in warranty with EVGA) Just to point out that your statutory rights don't suddenly go away after a year. You are covered pretty much for what the reasonable lifespan of the product in question is.

I actually did call up the European Consumer centre in Dublin on my friends behalf and they did confirm that a repair taking longer than five weeks is what they would deem as excessive. It's looking very much likely that a small claims procedure will have to be opened to get this case resolved. At least he has integrated graphics on his mobo I guess

the_syco

N64 wrote: »

It's looking very much likely that a small claims procedure will have to be opened to get this case resolved.

Didn't think it was possible, but it seems it is;
http://www.consumerhelp.ie/small-claims#EUclaims

Claims against businesses in other EU countries
Consumers in Ireland are able to make cross-borders claims against businesses in other EU countries through the Small Claims procedure.

You can make claims of up to €2,000 against product and service providers in other EU states (except Denmark) through your local district court, even though the item was purchased in another EU country. It costs €25 to make a claim.

EoinHef

N64 wrote: »

What you are saying above is a huge misconception about warranties in the world of consumer law. A warranty is something offered in addition to your statutory rights. Hardwareversand are legally obligated to fix the problem here, there is no question about that (although since the card is only a bit over a year old, it still is in warranty with EVGA) Just to point out that your statutory rights don't suddenly go away after a year. You are covered pretty much for what the reasonable lifespan of the product in question is.

I actually did call up the European Consumer centre in Dublin on my friends behalf and they did confirm that a repair taking longer than five weeks is what they would deem as excessive. It's looking very much likely that a small claims procedure will have to be opened to get this case resolved. At least he has integrated graphics on his mobo I guess

Ive been through this before,i know all about the expected lifetime of a product. But once warranty is out you are only entitled to what the value of the product is then i.e second hand value. You could hardly expect to get or what you paid for a product say 3 years after you bought it as you have had use of said product for 3 years. If the card is a year old EVGA are supplying the extra warranty not HWVS.

Why HWVS didnt just say that to you or send the card to EVGA though ive no idea. Ia there definitely an extended EVGA warranty on it?

CruelCoin

TheDoc wrote: »

I've stayed clear of them and paid the slightly more RRP from places like Amazon and Overclockers, but places I know provide top notch customer service.

This is why i went almost entirely Amazon for my build.

People so often forget that your time also has value.

TheDoc

N64 wrote: »

What you are saying above is a huge misconception about warranties in the world of consumer law. A warranty is something offered in addition to your statutory rights. Hardwareversand are legally obligated to fix the problem here, there is no question about that (although since the card is only a bit over a year old, it still is in warranty with EVGA) Just to point out that your statutory rights don't suddenly go away after a year. You are covered pretty much for what the reasonable lifespan of the product in question is.

I actually did call up the European Consumer centre in Dublin on my friends behalf and they did confirm that a repair taking longer than five weeks is what they would deem as excessive. It's looking very much likely that a small claims procedure will have to be opened to get this case resolved. At least he has integrated graphics on his mobo I guess

Reasonable lifespan of a product is something highly contentious in court, and typically why its something that a retailer won't budge to, is because its something that is RARELY successful by a consumer who take a retailer through a small claim.

The misconception is that "expected lifespan" is some form of fixed time, when in reality, it's a variable specific to each case.

From witnessing a few of these cases in person and reading a number of case studies, I've never seen a case of it being succesfull with an item outside of its original warranty.

And considering the onus is typically with the consumer to prove the "expected lifespan" it's easily contested from the retailer based on a number of variables.

For the first time I can see you saying the card was over and outside it's one year warranty, so to be honest I think the retailer is pretty strong here.

Small claims is an excellent service not used as much as it should. Best of luck if you go that route, and let us know the result. If you are succesfull you will have set an entirely new precedent for PC component warranties and expectations of liability (thats not a smart comment, its just that you will have)

N64

Just to update, on Friday my friend got a message saying that they received the card back from the manufacturer. So that's a 6 week RMA process. Personally, I don't think I'll be ordering from HWVS any time soon. Don't know where people are getting the impression that the card is out of warranty btw, He purchased it in late 2013 and all EVGA cards have a three year warranty. Again, EVGA apparently take 3 working days maximum to process RMA's so I'm betting HWVS forgot to send it off or something

jabberwock

"regarding his build that he got last year."
"He purchased it in late 2013"

So when was this actually bought from HWVS?

Was it explained why the retailer is liable here to help? Was there some sort of extended option paid for or something?

I've spent close on €10k with them at this point and have RMA'd 1 item and had it back by the end of the week.

.G.

TheDoc wrote: »

Reasonable lifespan of a product is something highly contentious in court, and typically why its something that a retailer won't budge to, is because its something that is RARELY successful by a consumer who take a retailer through a small claim.

The misconception is that "expected lifespan" is some form of fixed time, when in reality, it's a variable specific to each case.

From witnessing a few of these cases in person and reading a number of case studies, I've never seen a case of it being succesfull with an item outside of its original warranty.

And considering the onus is typically with the consumer to prove the "expected lifespan" it's easily contested from the retailer based on a number of variables.

For the first time I can see you saying the card was over and outside it's one year warranty, so to be honest I think the retailer is pretty strong here.

Small claims is an excellent service not used as much as it should. Best of luck if you go that route, and let us know the result. If you are succesfull you will have set an entirely new precedent for PC component warranties and expectations of liability (thats not a smart comment, its just that you will have)

I bought a 60GB PS3 at launch in Ireland.PS3 warranty was one year. 3 years later it got YLOD. I took issue with Komplett but they were having none of it so I took them to the small claims court and argued that because it cost €630 quid new it should have lasted longer.Komplett never bothered to turn up to defend their position and the judge ruled in my favour and awarded me €430. She deducted 200 for the usage over the years it worked. There was a massive thread on it on Boards, loads had joy with xtravision and smyths too.

EoinHef

^^ This is how ive been through the expected lifetime issue before also.
Had a 4 yr old PS3 fat that got ylod and after a bit of hassle Game eventually tried to get it fixed. After 3 fixes didnt work they eventually agreed to refund part of the original cost,as i had use of the product for 4 yrs. Got €280 back,the price of a second hand slim at the time. As the older model was discontinued they could not replace my PS3 so partial refund was the only option.

Thats not the case here though,the card still had a manufacturers warranty and should have been sent to the manufacturer rather than HWVS. I dont know why HWVS didnt either didnt communicate this to you or send it off themselves immediately when they received the card instead of offering a partial refund. For the sake of saving delivery costs to EVGA its ended up taking a lot longer.

What warranties were still left were very vague at best imo from the info in the thread.

Glad he got it sorted anyway even though it wasnt the smoothest of processes