Best online business banking experience?

Auscast

There's been a long term ongoing discussion about the state of business banking on here, but no real comparisons of positive online banking experiences (as in user experience, not support etc.).

I recently closed my AIB business account for a few reasons -
(1) Internet banking (iBB) was a right pain and like logging into a 1984 terminal - and they want to start charging me through the nose for it, and
(2) I was told by Revenue I could have a personal account to manage my extremely limited transactions as a Limited Business (which my accountant and AIB disagree with) - can anyone clarify this?

I only really need a credit/debit card and online banking, so out of all the banks at the moment, can anyone rate the business banking experience of the following?
Is there any Irish business bank that doesn't use a digipass?

BOI
RaboDirect
Danske Bank
(and any others)

My company is no longer startup status, but is not yet profitable. So it's a lot of small hosting payments and VAT claims etc, no rent, big bills or wages.

Thanks.

pedronomix

The general consensus on here is that AIB and Ulster have the best online offerings. Many use a personal account as sole traders but you are stuck with a LTD company.

mneylon

AIB's online banking for business is way better than Bank of Ireland's

I've no experience of the other banks so cannot comment

capefear

I have with aib, boi and ulster bank on behalf of different clients
And the banks all have their faults

Ulster bank wouldn't open company accounts if any of the directors have a poor credit rating. The application form has to be submitted online and they say they will reply in 48 hours I know clients who havent received a reply after 2 weeks.

Aib online is not the best but it's does the job, they don't have business debit cards

Boi are the best of a bad lot, the online banking is brutal, they provide business cards. I was told that in future that they will be charging €31 legal fees/open charge for single member companies or accounts that require more looking into. I would say this is because of the new company law and tighter antimoney laundrying controls

Auscast

BOI's new 'business online' looks rather good though, has anyone any experience with this? Otherwise I'm seriously considering Rabobank as an option considering my business is a web startup with no current real 'real life' requirements...

Auscast

Blacknight wrote: »

AIB's online banking for business is way better than Bank of Ireland's

I've no experience of the other banks so cannot comment

Is this their old user experience or their new one?

Nuttzz

Auscast wrote: »

BOI's new 'business online' looks rather good though, has anyone any experience with this? Otherwise I'm seriously considering Rabobank as an option considering my business is a web startup with no current real 'real life' requirements...

it looks better, and you are no longer tied to just using it on Internet explorer but the functionality is still pretty crap on it

for example no copy statements, and only 90 day rolling reporting

srsly78

pedronomix wrote: »

The general consensus on here is that AIB and Ulster have the best online offerings. Many use a personal account as sole traders but you are stuck with a LTD company.

Please clarify this. I happen to know of several small ltd companies that use a (seperate) personal account also, revenue does not seem to mind. It is against bank policy however, but does that make it illegal?

As mentioned here many times, the online features of a boi personal account are much much better than a boi business one - as well as being free.

pedronomix

srsly78 wrote: »

Please clarify this. I happen to know of several small ltd companies that use a (seperate) personal account also, revenue does not seem to mind. It is against bank policy however, but does that make it illegal?

As mentioned here many times, the online features of a boi personal account are much much better than a boi business one - as well as being free.

It has absolutely nothing to do with Revenue, your point in this regard is?

I know lots of businesses that have had issues by trying to use personal banking products for commercial purposes. Some micro enterprises may get away with it, but once any reasonable transaction turnover emerges, they get nailed!! Personal banking products specifically preclude these activities, I would not advocate what is essentially the dishonest assertion required.

jimmii

srsly78 wrote: »

Please clarify this. I happen to know of several small ltd companies that use a (seperate) personal account also, revenue does not seem to mind. It is against bank policy however, but does that make it illegal?

As mentioned here many times, the online features of a boi personal account are much much better than a boi business one - as well as being free.

When I went to AIB for a business account they advised me to go for a personal account in the business name and not a full business account so I would be surprised if it was against company policy.

pedroeibar1

jimmii wrote: »

When I went to AIB for a business account they advised me to go for a personal account in the business name and not a full business account so I would be surprised if it was against company policy.

With respect Jimmii, it probably is. All banks divide their business into commercial and consumer; there is little legal difference between the two, just different procedural, account opening & AML requirements. For example in setting up an account for a Ltd. Co. would be a standard requirement to have a copy of the certificate of incorporation. It makes sense for a bank to differentiate, to appoint specialist “minders” to both advise, manage and sell products. Some accounts are handled out of specific business centres, although the branch address might be where the account is held.

@srsly - A small company cannot use a ‘personal’ account – it would be a company account but managed in the consumer division. As the other Pedro has said, it’s nothing to do with Revenue, it is an internal bank matter.

A branch might be under business target pressure to open business (or consumer) accounts and will push prospective customers in the required direction. If you are a small co. / start-up the bank will not give you the account you want, tell them you will go elsewhere – then see what happens!

dbran

srsly78 wrote: »

Please clarify this. I happen to know of several small ltd companies that use a (seperate) personal account also, revenue does not seem to mind. It is against bank policy however, but does that make it illegal?

As mentioned here many times, the online features of a boi personal account are much much better than a boi business one - as well as being free.

There can be serious issues using a personal account for a limited company.

A personal account is effectively a directors loan because it is under the control of the directors and not the company. So from a company law point of view, there are the possibilities of it being an illegal loan to the director, and also the proper documentation (note new rules under new CA 2014) as to the terms of the loan. From a revenue point of view, you could be into BIK issues on the deemed interest associated with the directors loan and Sec 239 notional corporation tax.

So long as you get a benign revenue auditor you may be OK. But honestly for a couple of quid, just set it up properly 1st time and no mickey mouse shortcuts.

Best Regards

dbran

srsly78

For what is effectively a one man company in many cases your distinction seems arbitrary. The "couple of quid" can work out to about e500/year, and business banking services are a joke. It's not just about money, it's about what should be trivial things like being able to access stuff from 4 months back online.

Take2Sean

I was with AIB. Online system was crap but usable. I found their customer service a disaster

Went to BOI their business banking DOES NOT WORK. It's absolute joke. Customer service was very personable however their answer to the lack of online banking for mac was to use cheques..

Finally switched to Ulster Bank, their online system is years ahead of BOI or AIB, extremely efficient and works with phone app. Customer service not amazing but I haven't needed it because the online systems actually work very well.

Over all massive thumbs up for Ulster Bank.

Also AIB were stingey with the company card, BOI were fine and Ulster were extremely easy going on it.

Take2Sean

Limited Companies are not extensions of your own wealth. They are separate entities. Having a personal account running through is stupid and pointless and asking for trouble

smemon

as others have said, whilst you may get away with using a personal account for a one person limited company, it's one more thing you'll potentially have to worry about down the line...

bottom line: a company is virtually a person in the eyes of the law

you cannot set up a bank account in one person's name (your own) with the sole purpose of facilitating another person's business (the company's)...

bank fees can also be written off as business expenses so provided the company is turning a profit, the fees shouldn't be an issue... if the company isn't turning a profit or can't / won't be able to afford a couple of hundred euro per year to keep a bank account open then you have to question why the business exists in the first place...

delahuntv

Take2Sean wrote: »

I was with AIB. Online system was crap but usable. I found their customer service a disaster

Went to BOI their business banking DOES NOT WORK. It's absolute joke. Customer service was very personable however their answer to the lack of online banking for mac was to use cheques..

Finally switched to Ulster Bank, their online system is years ahead of BOI or AIB, extremely efficient and works with phone app. Customer service not amazing but I haven't needed it because the online systems actually work very well.

Over all massive thumbs up for Ulster Bank.

Also AIB were stingey with the company card, BOI were fine and Ulster were extremely easy going on it.

Ulster do have the best online banking - probably because they are part of a huge banking group.

However, they also have their shortfalls and if anything happens such as loss of your keypad, it can take a few weeks for a replacement.


AIB, after recent upgrades is now quite good and you can have all accounts listed and credit cards (Ulster doesn't show credit cards).

On other aspects, it really depends on your relationship manager - a good one will get things done. Having up to date managment accounts and a tax clearance cert on file, also speeds things up. (I got from loan application to loan approval to drawdown in 8 days earlier this year)

The local branch manager has the ability to give up to 30k without needing to go to credit committee - ulster managers have zero leeway at present.

dbran

The problem is most local branch managers no longer have the power to approve credits and loans. It is decided by a central decision making agency. So for better or worse, in most cases it dosent really matter whether or not your local branch manager loves you or not. All they can do is put in a good word for you if anything.

Dbran

delahuntv

dbran wrote: »

The problem is most local branch managers no longer have the power to approve credits and loans. It is decided by a central decision making agency. So for better or worse, in most cases it dosent really matter whether or not your local branch manager loves you or not. All they can do is put in a good word for you if anything.

Dbran

aib changed this last year and branch manager got control up to certain limits, but I think your business has to have a certain internal rating, so possibly in a way you are pre-approved without actually knowing.

I'm with aib for about 4 years now and have found that since about last sept they have become very proactive on help business and not just from a banking point of view. (business coaching, workshops, seminars etc)