Reared calves what to do??

ford4610

Hi Lads,

I just bought reared calves off a man on done deal, but only gave him a deposit I have the cards but he is dropping them to me during the week. But I only noticed that he bought most of them at a mart yesterday and a few in the last 3/4 days ago. He also said he had the calves awhile etc. So the situation is that he lied and I am p*****d off about it. He seems to be a bit of a dealer.

What should I do tell him the deal is off or what? What`s ye`re opinions?


Thanks

Kovu

This sort of thread again :P

There are two ways of looking at it;
1) You can throw the calves up and demand your deposit back because he lied to you and if he lied about buying them he could have lied about their previous health etc. There is also the stigma attached to dealers cattle and some people won't touch them at all. Note you could lose the deposit here as that is basically an agreement to buy regardless and he could drive off with the calves and never be seen again.

2) Keep the cattle but give out fcuk to yerman and question him when he arrives with the calves. Say you won't pay full price for calves that weren't the speck he said they were (not in herd the length he specified) and hope you get a bit of money off.

Always look at the cards before you agree to buy! If he/she won't show you the cards there's something fishy and walk away.

ford4610

But I have the cards..only gave small deposit

Kovu

Up to you to decide what to do then, only my opinion above. Others may have better ideas than me :P

Count Mondego

If you're happy with the calves, keep them.

_Brian

You could try and drive a better deal now or throw them up.

I hate to be lied to, there's a principal involved. I'd put him to the bother of coming out with them, then deal.

Oh, and don't beat yourself up too much. Many if not all of us have been caught at some stage, learn from it is the best thing you can do.

grassroot1

Keep the calves if you are happy with them and don't get caught again

ford4610

Thanks. See the other thing is I was looking at the cards for some of them they are only a month old on the cards..

Bullocks

ford4610 wrote: »

Thanks. See the other thing is I was looking at the cards for some of them they are only a month old on the cards..

A month is a bit young to be weaned , so I would be watching them for any stressful sickness brought on and maybe be prepared to put them back on milk if they aren't thriving on nuts and grass alone .
It would really depend on the calves themselves and the price you paid for them whether to throw them up or not .
Any harm to ask what you paid ?

_Brian

ford4610 wrote: »

Thanks. See the other thing is I was looking at the cards for some of them they are only a month old on the cards..

Month on the cards means nothing. You'd know by looking at them if they were proper weaned calves.

tanko

ford4610 wrote: »

Thanks. See the other thing is I was looking at the cards for some of them they are only a month old on the cards..

The age on the cards and the actual age of the calves are often two completely different things.
If i was buying young calves I'd buy them off a someone I know and trust even if they were a bit dearer than in the mart or off a dealer.

CloughCasey1

Many the calf I buy are 4 weeks on the card and have stumps of horns that a weanling would have. Saying this i always give them milk for at least another month to be sure. If your happy with the stock keep them and drive a harder bargain due to the lies.

simx

Had them a while? Sure a few hours could be classed as a while, a short while maybe

ford4610

As in a couple of weeks anyway. Under 4 k for mix of ten of contentials white head angus and montbeliarde all crosses good square calves.

ford4610

I cancelled deal he won't give my deposit back..

larrymiller

How much u pay ?

ford4610

50

larrymiller

ford4610 wrote: »

50

Not to bad so. Sometimes you just learn from your mistakes and move on

Bullocks

ford4610 wrote: »

I cancelled deal he won't give my deposit back..

It would cost you a fair bit more if they all needed another few weeks powder milk that you weren't expecting to feed .
We all get caught out every now and then sure what can you do

ford4610

Well it's chancy one calf was mad sucking my fingers it was like he wasn't weaned..

Bullocks

ford4610 wrote: »

Well it's chancy one calf was mad sucking my fingers it was like he wasn't weaned..

It's hard to know what way to take your beating . If they were nice it might have been as cheap to keep them and put the milk into them . It could be hard to find ones like them again , but it's not nice when you're lied to either

ford4610

I told him I am keeping the cards until I get money. The reply was I will send someone if I don't get them..

Mad4simmental

It's only €50 it's not worth the hassle.

DACC

Mad4simmental wrote: »

It's only €50 it's not worth the hassle.

And if he takes a 50 of 1 poor sod every week he's gettin a couple of grand a year ,

tanko

DACC wrote: »

And if he takes a 50 of 1 poor sod every week he's gettin a couple of grand a year ,

Caveat Emptor, let the buyer beware.

mf240

He took 50 deposit. If sale doesnt go through buyer loses his deposit simple.

It sounds like it might get dirty if you dont give back the cards op.

Im not saying its right but do you really need the hassle/worry over fifty euros. Id give back cards and put it down as an expensive lesson.



For what its worth id have chanced taking the calves if i was happy with them.

_Brian

Sign the cards and give them back.. say you had them signed before the deal fell though..

Some cheek !!

Sam Kade

Dealers telling a few lies about the cattle they're selling that's shocking :eek:
never before heard of.

ger b

_Brian wrote: »

Sign the cards and give them back.. say you had them signed before the deal fell though..

Some cheek !!

Easy mistake to make and a bugger to put right I like your thinking

frazzledhome

Can't see the issue, you liked the calves so you agreed to buy. If it was me I wouldn't have believed a word from a dealer and I'd have kept the calves.

I'm only asking, did you get cold feet and use this as an excuse to back out?

Life would be lovely if everything was as people say but always remember that more than dealers lie selling stock.

Life lesson. Give back cards and move on. Btw I've loads of calves to sell

ford4610

I didn't like the fact he only bought them and still tryed to lie saying they weren't bought at mart even though the mart code and date is on the back, lot number ..

mf240

Thats what dealers do. if he told the truth hed go broke.

dzer2

I would buy approx 150 calves a yr. I used to buy from a dealer and told him that I wanted the calves straight off a farm. He dropped a load he bought from a mart. 2 needed treatment so next time I bought from him I reduced the price by 15 a head. It was the last time he brought calves from the mart. Nearly able to source all the calves off farms myself now.

Markcheese

Best thing you did was to back out - sure a couple of stressed out half reared calves not thriving, a couple of vet visits and maybe a dead calf one morning and 50 euro to back out would have seemed fierce cheap -
All those things could happen anyway but you'd always blame the dealer- and yourself for not telling him to walk -

Sheep breeder

did you look at the calves before you got the cards and when did you strike the deal!! surely you could age the calves when you seen them and when you got the cards you looked at the backs to see where they come from,
a lot of lads are quick to run down dealers on here, if dealers are so bad why not go to the mart or on farm and bid for stock when all the info is on the board,

ford4610

To be honest it wasn't until after I gave deposit, I looked at the back of the cards. Don't worry I have learnt my lesson to stay well away from dealers.

davidk1394

Hold onto the cards until you get back the money

ford4610

I found out he was in a department of agriculture office getting new cards this morning...

djmc

To be honest if you give a deposit for anything and back out of sale for any reason you lose your deposit.
That is what a deposit is for its not just part payment.
If it went to a court you wouldn't have a leg to stand on and could well end up paying his legal costs as well which would be a lot more than 50 euro.
As the saying goes buyer beware.
I'm not saying he is right but legally you're wrong holding on to cards of animals you don't own and any court of law would see it that way.
Holding them for the sake of 50 quid could just bring you more hassle IMO.

ford4610

djmc wrote: »

To be honest if you give a deposit for anything and back out of sale for any reason you lose your deposit.
That is what a deposit is for its not just part payment.
If it went to a court you wouldn't have a leg to stand on and could well end up paying his legal costs as well which would be a lot more than 50 euro.
As the saying goes buyer beware.
I'm not saying he is right but legally you're wrong holding on to cards of animals you don't own and any court of law would see it that way.
Holding them for the sake of 50 quid could just bring you more hassle IMO.

It's all the one because he has got new cards now..

patjack

Have to agree with DJMC, I'd be as pi***d as you OP with the lies, but also myself for not copping it. But as you said thats how we learn and lesson learnt. I have made plenty mistakes, important thing is to learn from them ...... eventually in my case.

I would have given back the cards though. A deposit is a commitment to buy, if you fail to buy you lose the deposit. The dealer didn't hide the cards from you, he may have mislead you but the information was there for you. Even now I'd go back with the cards albeit they are no good to him, just say look it I wanted settled calves and didn't have time to be messing with calves that have had a few movements.

It would remove some of the bad feeling, I wouldn't like a lad going around waiting for an opportunity to catch me out again in whatever way he could.

Not saying dealers are like this but in general people of all walks do hold grudges and small minority act on them.

In fact dealers are the type most likely to move on from such an experience but you'd be surprised what some people would do when they carry a grudge.

Sheep breeder

ford 4610
how do you know he was in the dvo getting new cards!!!
when the cattle are in his herd he is entitled to have the cards and no person is entitled to hold the owners cards not even a vet,
this whole story is starting to smell a little fishy at this stage!!!

Bullocks

Sheep breeder wrote: »

ford 4610
how do you know he was in the dvo getting new cards!!!
when the cattle are in his herd he is entitled to have the cards and no person is entitled to hold the owners cards not even a vet,
this whole story is starting to smell a little fishy at this stage!!!

It's unlikely he would get 10 replacement cards that handy for calves I'd say

Base price

Bullocks wrote: »

It's unlikely he would get 10 replacement cards that handy for calves I'd say

+1
I would have thought that the Dept alarm bell starts ringing if you look for more than one replacement card, with the exception of an annual herd test where the vet files a report.

Kovu

Bullocks wrote: »

It's unlikely he would get 10 replacement cards that handy for calves I'd say

I did it before in the mart when an envelope of cards went missing and the amount of hassle was unreal! And even then we had all the details on the system. I can't imagine you could saunter into dept offices and say you need new ones without eyebrows being raised.
Unless he blatantly lied and said they were burnt in a fire or something

Base price

Kovu wrote: »

I did it before in the mart when an envelope of cards went missing and the amount of hassle was unreal! And even then we had all the details on the system. I can't imagine you could saunter into dept offices and say you need new ones without eyebrows being raised.
Unless he blatantly lied and said they were burnt in a fire or something

I know we sometimes give out, grumble and complain about the Dept :rolleyes:
However in such a situation, I would presume they (Dept) would require a incident report from the Garda, Fire Brigade or insurance company and probably/rightly followed up with a DVO inspection.

whelan2

Kovu wrote: »

I did it before in the mart when an envelope of cards went missing and the amount of hassle was unreal! And even then we had all the details on the system. I can't imagine you could saunter into dept offices and say you need new ones without eyebrows being raised.
Unless he blatantly lied and said they were burnt in a fire or something

vet lost about 40 of my cards a few years ago, rang dept, they sent out forms i filled them in, got cards about a week later, no hassle, vet found cards a few weeks later, no way anyone could get new cards in a day afaik

dzer2

Bought 20 calves from a company (not WCC) a few yrs ago. Agreed a price and he dropped them here, I paid the driver the agreed price. Following week instead of getting cards in post, I got an invoice for 20 euro extra per calf. Rang the sales man and gave him an earful said a price was a price and I wasn't paying. He said I wouldn't get the cards until I paid. I left it until the test and got the vet to complete form for the animals. Even then there was a mountain of sh1te to get the cards.