The Biggest Surprise

FixdePitchmark

I'm not going to start a thread with the word failure. But -

I'm watching European Tour and watching guys at 2nd level of golf. It is still a very very high level. ( I know Sergio is there for other reasons)

But wanted to ask opinions on guys that never lived up to the hype or expectations we and golf had for them.

This game is crazy - your ability, can be taken away from you at random, for all sorts of reasons. As golfers - we know it is complex and almost unexplainable.

I'll post a few names, to open thread (random eras and reasons) . But lads that did not live up to the expectation imposed by media and fans.

1) Sergio Garcia
2) Camillo Vegas
3) Manassero
4) Westwood
5) Every Swedish Golfer
4) Rory Mcilroy and every Irish Golfer except Padraig :P
5) Charl Schwartzel
6) Darren Clarke (see 4)


So some above are a joke - but is there any golfer ? , you seen going all the way , and the way things worked out was so different to the way you seen it.

From my own point of unpopular view , I've been very disappointed with Irish Golf on an international scale. Lads in north seem to have pushed things - but , the 70s , 80s and 90s , Ireland in majors would be number 1 above for me.

delboykelly

Two words....


Anthony Kim



...

FixdePitchmark

delboykelly wrote: »

Two words....


Anthony Kim



...

Did think of him. The downside of a big endorsement contract too early.

I think he hit Vegas big time.



http://onlyagame.wbur.org/2014/09/20/anthony-kim-alan-shipnuck-pga

Golfgraffix

Remember Ty Tyron, the 16 year old who was to be Tigers main rival in the early 2000's

Was being paid millions before he ever made a cut.

J

BigChap1759

From listening to old interviews etc Sandy Lyle was supposed to have been breath taking as an amateur. Now I know he won 2 majors but many think he massively under achieved given his talent - personally I think the golfing gods cursed him after he stated that "he'd like to win a major a year for the next ten years" after his maters win......

Watched The Long Game again on Setanta during the week and I think the thing that kept standing out was that the difference between the guys on the European Tour and the lesser tours is tiny in terms of talent - it's th3e guys who have the mental aptitude that end up at the top in general.

newport2

BigChap1759 wrote: »

From listening to old interviews etc Sandy Lyle was supposed to have been breath taking as an amateur. Now I know he won 2 majors but many think he massively under achieved given his talent - personally I think the golfing gods cursed him after he stated that "he'd like to win a major a year for the next ten years" after his maters win......
.

If anyone deserved more than 2 majors IMO, Greg Norman would be top of my list. Unluckiest golfer of all time, as well as a couple of collapses.

newport2

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

From my own point of unpopular view , I've been very disappointed with Irish Golf on an international scale. Lads in north seem to have pushed things - but , the 70s , 80s and 90s , Ireland in majors would be number 1 above for me.

Biggest surprise to me has been English golf. Wealth of Talent and 1 major in the last 20 years (ok 19 years). vs 9 Irish ones in the last 10 years. Westwood, Donald, Casey, Rose, Poulter etc. I'd be pulling my hair out if I was an English golf fan.

Russman

Ahh I don't know Fix, I mean has anyone ever really "gone all the way" in golf ? Even Tiger, whos win percentage is beyond belief and miles ahead of anyone (cherry picking the courses and tournaments he played is another day's argument !), spent the majority of his golf "losing". Leaving him aside, even the best players probably lose 95% of the time. Its just the nature of the sport IMO.

On your list, Sergio has arguably underachieved, but he still has an awful lot of wins for a career in the modern era.
Of the others, I'd say in terms of talent, probably Clarke has underachieved, but if you include the mental side of golf within "talent" then he hasn't.
I don't think Westy was ever regarded as much more than a very good player, I don't remember him ever being the next big thing. The British media are very excitable when one of their own looks like doing something. Simple uncomfortable fact is he's not quite good enough or lucky enough to win a major, much like Poulter. But a great career nonetheless, huge number of wins, great at Ryder Cup, OoM winner etc.

Anthony Kim, definitely. Ryo Ishikawa, possibly but he's still young enough.
Michelle Wie ? the hype about her when she was in her early teens was crazy.
Michael Campbell maybe ? Although a major and some good tour wins, so hardly a failure.
How about Paul McGinley ? IMO much better than the small number of wins he has.
Aaron Baddeley ?
Raymie Burns ?:)

When you think about it, there's actually so many to name, maybe they're not underachieving at all and its just that on a given tournament there's 150 odd guys who can basically all win and if someone picks up 10 wins or more over a career, then they've been pretty bloody good.

Tiger Mcilroy

newport2 wrote: »

Biggest surprise to me has been English golf. Wealth of Talent and 1 major in the last 20 years (ok 19 years). vs 9 Irish ones in the last 10 years. Westwood, Donald, Casey, Rose, Poulter etc. I'd be pulling my hair out if I was an English golf fan.

I think having rose on that list is a bit unfair he is IMO going to pick up more majors.

Putting him in the same category as poulter whom i actually think has overachieved based on his ability or casey is harsh.

newport2

Tiger Mcilroy wrote: »

I think having rose on that list is a bit unfair he is IMO going to pick up more majors.

Putting him in the same category as poulter whom i actually think has overachieved based on his ability or casey is harsh.

I put him in a pool of talented players that are English, to emphasise how many good English players there are/were. I didn't mean it as a pool of underachievers, which he certainly is not.

zizou_

Good idea for a thread. A lot of the obvious ones have already been mentioned but I'll give it a go anyway.

1) Geoff Ogilvy - 1 major and 3 WGCs in close succession but hasn't done much in last 5 yrs. He's getting on a bit now so unlikely to recover that form.

2) Nick Watney - quite a few PGA wins and close in a few majors. Never recovered from collapse in one of the majors (think he shot 80 in final group on Sunday)

3) Chad Campbell - used to be very consistent but haven't heard of him in years.

Tiger Mcilroy

newport2 wrote: »

I put him in a pool of talented players that are English, to emphasise how many good English players there are/were. I didn't mean it as a pool of underachievers, which he certainly is not.

I get you, you would think there would be many majors coming from that generation alright..

Rikand

Gordon Sherry

Played well at the Scottish Open as an amateur and had a brilliant amateur career. Turned pro at possibly the lowest handicap ever recorded. I dont remember what it was, but I remember it being something like +6.7.

He was never heard from again.....

TrapperChamonix

3) Manassero


Jesus he's only just turned 22 and has 4 European wins and 2 Asian.

Hogan won his 1st tournament at the age of 28

mike12

Think anyone with 10 plus career wins has had a good career. Anyone with a couple of majors has had a super career. Sergio after bursting onto the scene so young and contending in so many majors maybe dissatisfied with his career if he never wins one.
Monty for someone who dominated European golf but never won a majorwould we see him as having a poor career.

McDowell has been poor enough since he won in 2010 think his schedule is poor.

Els and mickelson would have won 3 or 4 more majors each if they weren't in the tiger era so they may see a career that didn't reward them for the golf they played.

NapoleonInRags

Trevor Immelman comes to mind immediately. When he won the masters in 2008 I reckoned he might get to half a dozen majors - considering his talent and that he was only 28 at the time.

Unfortunately he was beset by tendonitis in 2009, 2010 and only regained his PGA tour card via the web.com tour.

newport2

TrapperChamonix wrote: »

3) Manassero


Jesus he's only just turned 22 and has 4 European wins and 2 Asian.

Hogan won his 1st tournament at the age of 28

Harrington mentioned him in his talk in the Gaeity theatre. He was saying that Manassero's length off the tee is a big disadvantage to him which will limit him in his career. The point he was making (to all us amateurs) is that it's better to be long than straight when you're younger, because it's quite easy to make a long hitter straighter, but it's very difficult to make a short hitter a long one. Really talented guy, hope it doesn't hold him back too much.

HighLine

Keegan Bradley and what joy it gives me to add his name to the list.:D

valoren

Charles Howell III

He was really hyped up as a one of the next big things, but has won twice and is a PGA Tour journeyman today.

sheroman01

Sergio Garcia for me. I don't know how he didn't win that poll over Rickie Fowler!

FixdePitchmark

newport2 wrote: »

If anyone deserved more than 2 majors IMO, Greg Norman would be top of my list. Unluckiest golfer of all time, as well as a couple of collapses.

Good call on Norman - some golfer.

FixdePitchmark

newport2 wrote: »

I put him in a pool of talented players that are English, to emphasise how many good English players there are/were. I didn't mean it as a pool of underachievers, which he certainly is not.

Agree with you on that idea. With Faldo it looked like they were going to dominate the game.

Donald not picking up a major is a joke - but if the truth be known he is the one golfer you can see - he just isn't long enough.

Another major gap in golf - considering their history is Scotland - a few making a move now.

Monty not winning a major - an absolute tragedy if we ignore his personality. I think Sam Torrance liked the life on tour too much - but was an unreal golfer. Obviously putting got him too.


A bit more controversial - would be to say Seve and Mickelson should have more majors. Seve injury and Phil - a big problem was Tiger in his time.

FixdePitchmark

mike12 wrote: »

McDowell has been poor enough since he won in 2010 think his schedule is poor.

Was thinking about McDowell recently - and how he has gone off the boil.
To start he is an extraordinary determined fella. You get a sense he is sort of overachieving when you look at him as a golfer. A guy that worked very very hard at his game - short game and putting.

Then I seen an interview with him a while back - between his wife and kid , running a restaurant he is big into charity and I got worried when he went on about a beer he is working on.

I was thinking - As we all face in life, way too much going on. In a interview recently - he did admit his schedule is very very full .

I honestly think at the top level you slip if you are pulled a little too much.

But - he has a terrific life - but with him , you get a sense he wants to win more.

Rikand

sheroman01 wrote: »

Sergio Garcia for me. I don't know how he didn't win that poll over Rickie Fowler!

At the ripe old age of 35 has 27 professional wins(8 on the PGA tour and 11 on the European Tour. Another 8 on other tours)

He has 20.5 Ryder Cup points - Just 4.5 points short of Faldo's record. you could easily see him going passed that mark in the next 4 years and after playing in much fewer Ryder Cups than Faldo.

He hasn't lived up to expectations as regards the Majors but he has had a very good career!

Overrated ??? NEVER!

Ronney

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

Lads in north seem to have pushed things - but , the 70s , 80s and 90s , Ireland in majors would be number 1 above for me.

There weren't to many Irish playing in Majors except for The Open in those days. Not as much as a world tour as it is now.

Christy O'C Jnr 1 Masters
Des Smyth No US Majors
Eamon Darcy No US Majors
Philip Walton 1 US Open 2 Pga's

Rafferty 2 Masters, 2 US Opens, 2 Pga's
Feherty 1 Masters, 1 US Open, 2 Pga's


Thats 14 Between them, Paul McGinley played in 13 Major in the States in comparison

FixdePitchmark

Ronney wrote: »

There weren't to many Irish playing in Majors except for The Open in those days. Not as much as a world tour as it is now.

Christy O'C Jnr 1 Masters
Des Smyth No US Majors
Eamon Darcy No US Majors
Philip Walton 1 US Open 2 Pga's

Rafferty 2 Masters, 2 US Opens, 2 Pga's
Feherty 1 Masters, 1 US Open, 2 Pga's


Thats 14 Between them, Paul McGinley played in 13 Major in the States in comparison

They didn't exactly shine in The Open.

rooney30

Don't forget David Duval. Got to world number one, looked the real deal, then disappeared.

thewobbler

We had a thread like this a few years ago.

I don't personally see how someone who has achieved more success than 99.9% of professional golfers, and therefore 99.99999999999999% of anyone who has ever held a club, could be considered an underachiever.

That's Clarke, Monty, Donald, and Garcia by the way.

mister gullible

Rikand wrote: »

Gordon Sherry

Played well at the Scottish Open as an amateur and had a brilliant amateur career. Turned pro at possibly the lowest handicap ever recorded. I dont remember what it was, but I remember it being something like +6.7.

He was never heard from again.....

Think his back went badly.

SevesThreeIron

Gordon Sherry was teaching out of Bob Torrance's driving range in Largs up until a couple of years ago, probably is still there. He was the star of the 95 Walker Cup side that took on Tiger's USA. Harrington was the lesser known GB&I man that year who went on to have the career Sherry was tipped for.

Briny Baird is an interesting one when you're talking about underachievers. Won a shed load of money but never a competition. Hard to know what category to put him into. http://www.golfdigest.com/blogs/the-loop/2013/11/why-briny-baird-is-the-pga-tours-biggest-loveable-loser.html

slave1

Westy!!!!
No way, excellent career with 42 wins worldwide, been on more Euro RC winning teams than anyone else, 2 majors runner ups and 6 third places so has contented right up there at majors, oh and ex world number 1!!!
Top man!

The_Kew_Tour

Anyone remember a man named Robert Gamez from the 90s?

I remember reading about him in Golf World or some magazine saying he had ability to win 5+ majors, easily.

SaveOurLyric

rooney30 wrote: »

Don't forget David Duval. Got to world number one, looked the real deal, then disappeared.

Biggest surprise for me was that David Duval became top level golfer at all, not that he disappeared.

I quite expected the disappearance. His swing was simply too odd and always seemed a hair's breadth from disaster. He was a high wire act that fell.

SaveOurLyric

Was going to say Gamez also. He did hole a full shot on the 18th to deprive Norman of a tournament once I think. Possibly its was even the week before Tway holed the bunker shot.

Sam Randolph.
Scott Verplank.
(I forget which one of the above was once described as having so much talent for the game, it was a handicap).
Bobby Clampett.
Anthony Kim.
Bill Rogers.
Baker Finch achieved. But his fall was as spectacular as they come.
Wie for shear hype with no achievement. Press and her handlers badly to blame.

I wouldnt include Shark in this list. He did good stuff and had a lot of near misses.
Garcia is the standout failure on the major scene who should have won one, even though he has done well-ish otherwise.

The_Kew_Tour

Was Greg Norman a letdown or just God Dam unlucky at the wrong time?

He should have won more majors, but chip ins, bunker shots flying in and just little breaks always seemed to go against him.

SaveOurLyric

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Was Greg Norman a letdown or just God Dam unlucky at the wrong time?

He should have won more majors, but chip ins, bunker shots flying in and just little breaks always seemed to go against him.

He was not a let down. He won two majors. My view is that he was really only a 4-5 major guy anyway in the greater scheme. And to paraphrase someone, you make your own bad luck. Normal blew some that were entirely in his own control. And some that are seen as unlucky near misses should never have been even that - he should not have been in the position to be unlucky at all, but clear away. His nerve and decision making were without question very poor. His skill hitting a ball was superb however. But it takes both.