Irish Times - suspect selling of subscription

prosaic

This looks like a case of mis-selling and I'm wondering if anyone has heard of similar problems with door-to-door selling of subscriptions by the Irish Times.

I had an Irish Times sales agent call to my door last month offering a one-month trial subscription. The offer, as I understood it was: for €1 for one month, to receive access to the online paper and a hard copy of the Saturday edition delivered to me each week. I asked if it was for just one month or if there was a longer subscription hidden in the details. They said it was just for the one month with no further commitment.

The agent filled in the details on their ipad and I filled in the payment credit card details. They said said I would receive an email confirming all the details.

I didn't receive the email and promptly forgot all about it assuming the deal didn't complete for some reason. A while later, I noticed the €1 charge. Then this month, I got charged €16. So it would appear I have been subscribed to the €16/month subscription.

This may have been a lone case of an agent mis-selling. If anyone else has had similar experience I'd be interested to know. I've complained to the IT about this today and will await their response. I'll follow with a complaint to the Competition and Consumer Protection Commission if unhappy with the response.

coylemj

The IT (as with Airtricity and other organisations who use freelancers) will claim it was a rogue agent but seriously - you expected to get four or five Saturday's Irish Times and a month's access to the digital edition for just €1 with no strings attached?

You should agree to nothing on the doorstep unless the deal involves you there and then getting a copy of what you've just signed up to.

Better still, do like I do and refuse to engage with anyone (whether it's sales or a charity) on the doorstep. It's becoming a pain in the arse and the only way to stop it is to refuse to engage i.e. stop them before they start the sales pitch.

RayM

It's €1 for the first month, and €16 thereafter. But it automatically renews unless you cancel it yourself. As far as I know, you aren't tied into any kind of contract (beyond month-by-month) so you can cancel at any time.

slimjimmc

Seems like you signed up for a Premium subscription @ €1 first month, €16 per subsequent month. https://www.irishtimes.com/digital-subscriptions

The Saturday print is offered as part of the Weekend Print + Digital subscription @ €1 first month, €20 per subsequent month https://www.irishtimes.com/digital-print-subscriptions which it appears you were not signed up to.

You can signup to monthly subscriptions or annual subscriptions but you can cancel at least 10 days before the next month starts (see T&Cs) without penalty. With annual subs you will be refunded the remaining unused months.
As you are not tied into a minimum term contract the agent would have been correct in stating there is no commitment.

prosaic

coylemj wrote: »

The IT (as with Airtricity and other organisations who use freelancers) will claim it was a rogue agent but seriously - you expected to get four or five Saturday's Irish Times and a month's access to the digital edition for just €1 with no strings attached?

Yes, the offer was too good to be true. I do usually send everyone packing, politely but firmly. The IT was in my opinion somewhat reputable and I thought perhaps I could trust what was being said.

slimjimmc wrote: »

Seems like you signed up for a Premium subscription @ €1 first month, €16 per subsequent month.

Yes, it would seem I signed up to this. The agent said the Saturday paper would be included in the 1 month deal.

slimjimmc wrote: »

As you are not tied into a minimum term contract the agent would have been correct in stating there is no commitment.

In a contract of any duration, the seller should state clearly the terms. What I was told was that it was a 1 month deal. I was not told that it would flow into a rolling contract. There is a rolling contract which I would have to terminate by notice. I had no knowledge I was entering into a rolling contract.

As the agent didn't state the terms clearly, I would say that no legal contract exists. But it gets muddied by the use of an ipad by the agent. The agent fills in the whole thing except for the payment details. Obviously, yes, I should have taken the ipad and sat down with a cup of tea for a half hour to satisfy myself as to what I was entering into. The agent wouldn't be happy with that.

So, this whole mechanism of using an electronic means of signing up on the doorstep is not good. There should be a following step confirmed through email token that seals the deal and without which the contract is null and void. Probably, there should be a legal requirement to that effect for door to door formed contracts.

killbillvol2

I cannot believe that people give their payment card details to a random person calling to their front door.

jack presley

killbillvol2 wrote: »

I cannot believe that people give their payment card details to a random person calling to their front door.

This always amazes me too (and with chuggers in general). We're always being told to be careful when entering credit card details online and most of us are but surely giving them to some stranger is more risky considering we have no idea of how competent they are and whether they're's the kind of person who could easily leave their bag on the bus or in the pub.

prosaic

Yes, silly of me to use card there. I did check his id and that it was the IT website. I entered the card details myself. Indeed someone could fake the website but the address might look funny.

I am chastened and won't repeat this again.

But my main point is that its very bad form for the IT to allow their agents to engage in such underhand selling practices. It will piss-off prospective customers.

coylemj

prosaic wrote: »

But my main point is that its very bad form for the IT to allow their agents to engage in such underhand selling practices. It will piss-off prospective customers.

You can't bank on 'reputable' organisations having ethics for the simple reason as already stated that most of then contract out this part of their business.

It's becoming clear that as well as the risk of fraud, simply signing up for something on the doorstep marks you out as an easy touch which can have implications and lead to more approaches for cash because not content to simply get their hands on your money via DD, some charities then sell on your details after which you will start to get begging letters from other charities. This is the charity sector's equivalent of the fraudster's 'suckers list'.

In the UK an elderly lady who signed up to direct debits for some well-known charities ended up on such a list and she started getting bombarded with begging letters. At the age of 92 she committed suicide because the poor dear couldn't say no and ended up in debt.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/may/14/bristol-pensioner-body-avon-gorge-olive-cooke

rubadub

coylemj wrote: »

Better still, do like I do and refuse to engage with anyone (whether it's sales or a charity) on the doorstep.

Better yet, get rid of your doorbell. No real need for one in this day & age, for me anyway.

daheff

coylemj wrote: »

Better still, do like I do and refuse to engage with anyone (whether it's sales or a charity) on the doorstep. It's becoming a pain in the arse and the only way to stop it is to refuse to engage i.e. stop them before they start the sales pitch.

I agree....had somebody try to tell me how I should vote in one of the upcoming referendums...told them i wasnt interested and closed the door.

I dont buy/entertain cold callers no matter what.

gussieg

I understand this is an old thread but I signed up to the Irish times online to help my elderly mother be able to access the crossword while she is abroad on holiday, something I thought would be nice.
as it turns out, we cannot easily access the crossword any more they changed the format to saying print only tools or something which is beyond the capabilities of us or the printer, ( needs to be cloudbased now) and so I rang up to cancel and was told that as a premium subscriber with No weekend paper delivered, I was locked into a minimum 6 month subscription. Now nowhere on the very long winded terms and conditions that I had to read through to find the cancellation information ( it's wayyyy down the bottom) did it say minimum 6 month term.
freaked and upset and disspointed in the Irish Times for coming on so strong it will put me off in future, and wanted to let others know about this very dodgy addendum.

gussieg

just to update I contacted the Irish times subscription department and a lovely person called Aileen checked with her manager and they are cancelling the subscription and refunding the 16 Euro for the second month
.
will be far more careful in future giving card details without reading section 26 part 9 or ix .
still they have resolved it so fair play to the Irish times after all.