Breeding ewe lambs

Username John

Been very quiet in here of late...

I have been thinking about what to do for my own flock, so said I'd post it up to get some thoughts...

I know its been discussed before, and this thread is a bit of a continuation of the 'Increasing flock size' thread, but I'd like to pick yer brains, on if breeding ewe lambs would work in the system I'm trying move towards...

My situation is
- small flock, on a small land base
- This year, the ram went with the ewes mid Oct, for 3 weeks only, any ewes not in lamb at scanning were sold (Oh, I should say there was teaser ram was with them for 2 weeks beforehand)
- Ewes come into shed for 6-8 weeks around lambing, to give the land a break

I bought a Lleyn ram last year, and like the look of the ewe lambs and want to keep some of them
But - I only want one group of sheep. I don't have the ground for multiple groups. Nor do I want dry ewes or lambs around.

So - this means breeding them as ewe lambs.

I am wondering, is this possible and, if it is possible - if it is feasible...

If I were to breed them as lambs :
- I would like to only have them separate from the main flock at tipping (as would be a different ram)
- How many would go in lamb in 3 weeks? Would many (any?)
- How soon would they need to be feed after tipping - they would have to be brought into the shed to do this. So when should this be done (2 months before lambing?)
- They would have to go with the main flock again after lambing - would they be ok on good grass alone?

I know the easiest response to this is "just buy replacement hoggets" but I'd like to keep my own replacements IF I could find a way to work it. But I don't want to keep dry ewes / lambs around either...

I know it seems a bit of extra hardship for the sake of it, and when the numbers are small, you would wonder what I'm at...

But... I'd like to see what people think...

arctictree

Well, all I did this year was put any ewe lambs over 50Kg with the main flock in November. They all lambed fine except one that had a small prolapse as she was lambing twins. I'll know better in a few weeks when I weigh the lambs.

Connemara Farmer

Drumroll, Tah-Dah!

http://www.eblex.org.uk/wp/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/BRP-plus-breeding-from-ewe-lambs190314.pdf

Just happened to have it open with a bazillion other tabs, and I wonder why my laptop is slow (actually it's probably filled with digital STD's but anyway).

From a notoriously bad memory and someone who hasn't yet tried it. Experienced ram, inexperienced lambs at tipping time, need to have them in small fields/paddocks, they won't all seek out the ram like a ewe will. Not sure, but something in my head about possibly ewes taking the rams attention from the ewe lambs, might be in the eblex doc, or a Teagasc one.

Seems to involve quite a lot of feeding, with great importance on keeping the unborn lamb size manageable for the mother, and balancing that with keeping the ewe lamb herself growing.

Teagasc recommended keeping replacements from births during the first 17 days.

davidk1394

We buy in store lambs and and keep any replacements from them. We used breed our own but then your managing 2 flocks

AnFeirmeoir

lamb the ewe lambs here. Just separate for tipping. I give them 4 weeks, but put the ram in 2 weeks later than the main flock. - about 80% go in lamb.

I have a beltex ram specially for the job and they lamb fine.
Had a suffolk once and it was a disaster - put me off it for years

I don't follow all the recommendations of separate feeding regeme. Just try and keep them in what i consider good condition and feed with the rest. My ewes are never fat at lambing but not thin either.

I still have ewe lambs that i keep that aren't strong enough for the ram first year. This year i had good records and the ones that were strong enough were all the singles !- so you wouldnt want to go be just keeping the biggest.

Green farmer

Had a batch here that never went in lamb at 6-7 months old, but stuck with them and lambed for the first time at a year and a half old. Couldn't believe how much they turned inside out. I think it's the good grass between April-July after their first winter and shearing that sees them mature into good sheep.

Username John

Green farmer wrote: »

Had a batch here that never went in lamb at 6-7 months old, but stuck with them and lambed for the first time at a year and a half old. Couldn't believe how much they turned inside out. I think it's the good grass between April-July after their first winter and shearing that sees them mature into good sheep.

No doubt about this - but there is a cost to running them dry, plus I don't have the capacity to do so at the minute.

It's what we always did (ran them dry for first winter) and used them to clean out the paddocks after the ewes and lambs, and it worked well enough.

Just want to see what others do, or might do in my situation now...

farmerm 25

i have 11 strong quality texel cross ewe lambs what should i do for preparing them for the ram?

farmerm 25

i have 11 strong quality texel cross ewe lambs what should i do for preparing them for the ram? please reply

farmerm 25

i have 11 strong quality texel cross ewe lambs what should i do for preparing them for the ram? please reply.sorry i forgot to say they were born in febuary

ganmo

farmerm 25 wrote: »

i have 11 strong quality texel cross ewe lambs what should i do for preparing them for the ram? please reply.sorry i forgot to say they were born in febuary

Id say raddle the ram and let him off

farmerm 25

ganmo wrote: »

Id say raddle the ram and let him off

What breed of ram? I was thinking a Charolais ram they seem good

Cran

farmerm 25 wrote: »

What breed of ram? I was thinking a Charolais ram they seem good

Defo Charollais

Seriously something easy lambing for ewe lambs Charollais or Vendeen etc

IH784man

That or a vendeen,very similar and easy lambing

farmerm 25

Cran wrote: »

Defo Charollais

Seriously something easy lambing for ewe lambs Charollais or Vendeen etc[/quote. What feed should I give them when in lamb?

Cran

farmerm 25 wrote: »

Seriously something easy lambing for ewe lambs Charollais or Vendeen etc[/quote. What feed should I give them when in lamb?

Normally feed ewe lambs here 6 weeks before lambing, they need slightly more protein to ewes to milk.

farmerm 25

Cran wrote: »

Normally feed ewe lambs here 6 weeks before lambing, they need slightly more protein to ewes to milk.

We have ours on sweet after grass since August so there was no need for feed their very heavy. Is it ok if they are heavy and the ram is goin out soon?

Cran

farmerm 25 wrote: »

We have ours on sweet after grass since August so there was no need for feed their very heavy. Is it ok if they are heavy and the ram is goin out soon?

Should be fine, heavier the better and on grass only shouldnt be over fat. I meant feeding 6 weeks up to lambing, not before that.

ganmo

Cran wrote: »

Should be fine, heavier the better and on grass only shouldnt be over fat. I meant feeding 6 weeks up to lambing, not before that.

They might want some hay depending on how much grass they're on

farmerm 25

Cran wrote: »

Should be fine, heavier the better and on grass only shouldnt be over fat. I meant feeding 6 weeks up to lambing, not before that.[/quot what feed is it something high in protein or what. My ewe lambs now are about 52kg

rangler1

farmerm 25 wrote: »

Cran wrote: »

Should be fine, heavier the better and on grass only shouldnt be over fat. I meant feeding 6 weeks up to lambing, not before that.[/quot what feed is it something high in protein or what. My ewe lambs now are about 52kg

Ewe lambs should be scanned ideally, it's important that the doubles get enough. but if you overfeed the singles lambs will get too big, so the best plan is to split the ewes carrying multiples from those carrying singles for the last six weeks of pregnancy and feed accordingly.

farmerm 25

rangler1 wrote: »

farmerm 25 wrote: »

Ewe lambs should be scanned ideally, it's important that the doubles get enough. but if you overfeed the singles lambs will get too big, so the best plan is to split the ewes carrying multiples from those carrying singles for the last six weeks of pregnancy and feed accordingly.

How much is it to scan
The lambs.but I thought first lambers only had singles

rangler1

farmerm 25 wrote: »

rangler1 wrote: »

How much is it to scan
The lambs.but I thought first lambers only had singles

Yea probably not practical with 11, but if you knew someone scanning their ewes in end January, it would be worth asking can you bring yours along on the day. I've seen up to 50% of ewe lambs having doubles, but I'd rather they just had 1. The average on this farm would be about 25% doubles, but they wouldn't be as good as your ewe lambs

Green farmer

[QUOTE=rangler1;

I've seen up to 50% of ewe lambs having doubles, but I'd rather they just had 1. The average on this farm would be about 25% doubles, [/QUOTE]

Would you always try to foster off any twins, and leave ewe lambs to raise a mix of 1 lamb each ?

rangler1

Green farmer wrote: »

Would you always try to foster off any twins, and leave ewe lambs to raise a mix of 1 lamb each ?

Yea, try to foster but usually only have a few adult ewes to lamb in april,
We've a neighbour here that takes the front off the creep feeder and gives the doubles and their mothers access to ad lib meal for the first month to six weeks and it looks a great job, it's not cheap but he ends the year with good ewes and good lambs in the doubles

Green farmer

rangler1 wrote: »

, it's not cheap but he ends the year with good ewes and good lambs in the doubles

I'm beginning to think a few bags of spring creep might have avoided a lot more bags of lamb finisher in October. Abit tired of shovelling it into them here

sea12

Green farmer wrote: »

I'm beginning to think a few bags of spring creep might have avoided a lot more bags of lamb finisher in October. Abit tired of shovelling it into them here

Similar to me green. Spending allot on bags of Neal to finish them off here at the moment

Green farmer

I've been scratching my head trying to figure out where I went wrong this year. Having to finish so many on meal. I've let rams in two weeks earlier then last year , in an effort to give lambs the few extra weeks next summer on quality grass post weaning. Hoping it might make a difference.

rangler1

Green farmer wrote: »

I've been scratching my head trying to figure out where I went wrong this year. Having to finish so many on meal. I've let rams in two weeks earlier then last year , in an effort to give lambs the few extra weeks next summer on quality grass post weaning. Hoping it might make a difference.

I'd agree it's a good move to lamb earlier if you think you'll have the grass, May grass gives the lambs a huge boost, but they have to be old enough to utilise it. Ewe lambs lambs are at a huge disadvantage because of not being old enough in may, they're just starting grazing when the grass quality is plummeting. I see a much better performance of the early march lambs than even the end march lambs. This is just an observation not really a scientific fact.
As for this year, I've had rubbish thrive all year and then the orf at the end really put the kibosh on it. We've had to feed 200 out of 750, so not too bad I suppose....the first sixty of the 200 feeding only took a ton in troughs to get them out the gate, I've started the other 140 now ad lib and boy are they stuffing it in

Username John

Didn't hardly send any to the factory here this year. A few at the start, but that was it...
Sold em as stores, and will let the remaining ones off as stores next week (35kg and up kinda weight)
They'll come into about 75 - 80 euro I expect, which isn't super, but tis ok. Frees up some grass and is an easier option for me...