Pitching Problems

alxmorgan

Hey all,

Spent well over an hour pitching last night and it was shocking mostly. Left with a just about acceptable version.

I am well and truly confused now. Can't seem to find a method that I can trust. Considering trying the Stricker no wrists method and the Mickelson hinge and hold.

Would be interested to hear from anyone who has had similar troubles and come through it or good pitchers of the ball on what their methods are

thanks

hades

Welcome to my world.

I have also tried the 2 techniques you've mentioned, and i secretly blame working on the Mickelson hinge and hold for ruining my short game. The Stricker seems a lot more repeatable.

I've gone for a few lessons on this, and what i find works for me is,

- Soft hands, this is only something i've come across recently, but make perfect sense. I was gripping far too tightly, my body in turn was becoming rigid and i'd socket the ball. Soft hands, with nice gentle grip on the club.

- Place a guideline (club/alignment aid) along the target line. This helped me visualize taking the club back along the correct path.

- Ball slightly forward of centre, with hands ahead of the ball make a nice easy practice swing. Making sure to keep that angle with your hands slightly ahead of the ball on your backswing and followthrough (if that makes sense). This stops the leading edge of the club getting ahead of the swing resulting in a top.

- Make a practice swing with a 2 second pause at the top of the backswing, and then hit thru the ball. This is really weird for to begin with, but its a nice way of building up tempo. Do 3 practice swings, then do the same thing but hit the ball.

- Do a few one handed pitches. Set up as described above, then take one hand off the club and put behind your back. 3 practice swings, hit one ball, do that a few times and then try the other hand. All the while focusing on maintaining the angle with hands in front of the ball, from set up to impact. And also bringing the club back along the right line.

It sounds a bit strange and feels a bit strange, but i've found working on this has helped me hugely. My general practice would be

3 x 3 normal practice swings, 1 ball swing
3 x 3 two second back swing stop practice swings, 1 two second stop ball swing
3 x 3 left hand only practice swings , 1 left hand only ball swing
3 x 3 right hand only practice swings, 1 right hand only ball swing
3 x 3 normal practice swings, 1 ball swing

If things are going a bit askew, just take a breather, walk around the practice green, check your phone etc. Because if you become frustrated you'll tighten up and that won't help you at all.

I hope this helps.

alxmorgan

hades wrote: »

Welcome to my world.

I have also tried the 2 techniques you've mentioned, and i secretly blame working on the Mickelson hinge and hold for ruining my short game. The Stricker seems a lot more repeatable.

I've gone for a few lessons on this, and what i find works for me is,

- Soft hands, this is only something i've come across recently, but make perfect sense. I was gripping far too tightly, my body in turn was becoming rigid and i'd socket the ball. Soft hands, with nice gentle grip on the club.

- Place a guideline (club/alignment aid) along the target line. This helped me visualize taking the club back along the correct path.

- Ball slightly forward of centre, with hands ahead of the ball make a nice easy practice swing. Making sure to keep that angle with your hands slightly ahead of the ball on your backswing and followthrough (if that makes sense). This stops the leading edge of the club getting ahead of the swing resulting in a top.

- Make a practice swing with a 2 second pause at the top of the backswing, and then hit thru the ball. This is really weird for to begin with, but its a nice way of building up tempo. Do 3 practice swings, then do the same thing but hit the ball.

- Do a few one handed pitches. Set up as described above, then take one hand off the club and put behind your back. 3 practice swings, hit one ball, do that a few times and then try the other hand. All the while focusing on maintaining the angle with hands in front of the ball, from set up to impact. And also bringing the club back along the right line.

It sounds a bit strange and feels a bit strange, but i've found working on this has helped me hugely. My general practice would be

3 x 3 normal practice swings, 1 ball swing
3 x 3 two second back swing stop practice swings, 1 two second stop ball swing
3 x 3 left hand only practice swings , 1 left hand only ball swing
3 x 3 right hand only practice swings, 1 right hand only ball swing
3 x 3 normal practice swings, 1 ball swing

If things are going a bit askew, just take a breather, walk around the practice green, check your phone etc. Because if you become frustrated you'll tighten up and that won't help you at all.

I hope this helps.

Cheers, some good thoughts there to work on.

yipsnomore

I use this technique a lot: Use the Bounce

montescheinblum.com/short-game/

wont let me post a link

Rikand

something i've been working on lately to good effect - I cant find a youtube video for it, lol

Taking a neutral setup, take a nice slow backswing as normal but as you follow through and make contact with the ball, try to have your clubhead overtake the hands. This promotes a good follow through and acceleration through the ball. Also makes the ball release out to a similar distance all the time too, so you'd find improved distance control on your chipping as well as you get used to it.

I'll keep trying to find a video as it's much easier to implement once you've seen it. I learned it by watching a friend of mine do it.

alxmorgan

Found this on straight arm pitching

http://www.golfdigest.com/golf-instruction/2013-12/tour-secret-straight-arm-pitch

D Hayes

yipsnomore wrote: »

I use this technique a lot: Use the Bounce

montescheinblum.com/short-game/

wont let me post a link

As this video costs $25, can you go into some detail on using the bounce?

yipsnomore

D Hayes wrote: »

As this video costs $25, can you go into some detail on using the bounce?

I dont think words could really get across the video. But google "phil blackmar masters chip tip" and you'll see a GC video about using the bounce.

Norfolk Enchants_

alxmorgan wrote: »

Hey all,

Spent well over an hour pitching last night and it was shocking mostly. Left with a just about acceptable version.

I am well and truly confused now. Can't seem to find a method that I can trust. Considering trying the Stricker no wrists method and the Mickelson hinge and hold.

Would be interested to hear from anyone who has had similar troubles and come through it or good pitchers of the ball on what their methods are

thanks

Get a lesson, it's the only way you'll will have a sustainable improvement, until then you'll just keep bouncing around from quick fix to quick fix.

FixdePitchmark

I've a poor enough short game too.

But found this interesting from Padraig - saying about "time"

when I read some of the stuff above - I get worried , particularly if Phil is mentioned.

I guess you have to be realistic about what time you can put in a week - 0 to1 hour or 5 hours ? or more ?

If you don't have time for all the aspects of around the green. (there are just too many imo)

1) get rid of wedge and high loft clubs out of short game if possible.
2) Don't come near the game with over 56 degrees and a flop shot unless you've put serous work in towards the 5 hours there.
3) Use a putter if you can - 9/8/7 iron next , then a simple basic method like the one Padraig does above. It makes sure you have a consistent strike on the ball.
4) I think some of these methods using bounce need to be approached with care - first of all how much bounce, how much bounce on club, shaft angle etc., the club is very open and of higher risk (IMO) requires plenty of practice. We haven't even got into grind.
5) Also - I think to a degree after study , you need to pick a method that suits your swing, some of the methods above have very different angle of attacks on the ball - I think for this reason taking on a technique is a little hazardous as I think it is greatly reliant on your swing type and angles. You will find this out by testing over much more hours.

I guess I'm saying - and lads don't like to hear this .

Don't pitch if you can.
De loft if you can
Practice lots
Find your own technique after trying by trial and error over hours of frustration.
You can't flop - you think you can , you can't unless your doing 4 hours + a week.

As Norfolk says - perhaps all that can be shortened by going to a pro.

alxmorgan

Good point Fix. Don't have a whole lot of time to practice so need something that gives reasonable results but is low maintenance.

bustercherry

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

I've a poor enough short game too.

But found this interesting from Padraig - saying about "time"

when I read some of the stuff above - I get worried , particularly if Phil is mentioned.

I guess you have to be realistic about what time you can put in a week - 0 to1 hour or 5 hours ? or more ?

If you don't have time for all the aspects of around the green. (there are just too many imo)

1) get rid of wedge and high loft clubs out of short game if possible.
2) Don't come near the game with over 56 degrees and a flop shot unless you've put serous work in towards the 5 hours there.
3) Use a putter if you can - 9/8/7 iron next , then a simple basic method like the one Padraig does above. It makes sure you have a consistent strike on the ball.
4) I think some of these methods using bounce need to be approached with care - first of all how much bounce, how much bounce on club, shaft angle etc., the club is very open and of higher risk (IMO) requires plenty of practice. We haven't even got into grind.
5) Also - I think to a degree after study , you need to pick a method that suits your swing, some of the methods above have very different angle of attacks on the ball - I think for this reason taking on a technique is a little hazardous as I think it is greatly reliant on your swing type and angles. You will find this out by testing over much more hours.

I guess I'm saying - and lads don't like to hear this .

Don't pitch if you can.
De loft if you can
Practice lots
Find your own technique after trying by trial and error over hours of frustration.
You can't flop - you think you can , you can't unless your doing 4 hours + a week.

As Norfolk says - perhaps all that can be shortened by going to a pro.

Deloft by taking a lower lofted club for clarity.

The amount of lads with massive forward presses on a 60 degree i see is unbelievable. No wonder lads are chunking the ball all over the place when there is a sharp leading edge requiring you to be so precise.

spacecoyote

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PA_AMo-BaU4

I found this to be a consistent technique, saw a major improvement when I did this as I used to have a much more downward angle of attack

agusta

alxmorgan wrote: »

Hey all,

Spent well over an hour pitching last night and it was shocking mostly. Left with a just about acceptable version.

I am well and truly confused now. Can't seem to find a method that I can trust. Considering trying the Stricker no wrists method and the Mickelson hinge and hold.

Would be interested to hear from anyone who has had similar troubles and come through it or good pitchers of the ball on what their methods are

thanks

I think you need to find the source of what is causing your pitching problems..,A lesson from a good professional with video analysis would certainly help.
A couple of typical death moves in my opinion are.
A/ shifting weight to back foot in backswing
B/swinging the club back inside/under the shaft plane,it must be on plane.dave pelz prefers it above the plane.
c/hitting at the ball with the hands in the downswing.
This is the best video i have seen for pitching https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YHxLAFB9zLQ
If my pitching even goes off a little bit i refer back to this video from chris toulson
Also any videos from padraig harrington on the short game are good

spacecoyote

As an FYI, if you're based near Dublin, I just got a mail from the spa well range stating they have a couple of places on a "Short Game Secrets" course available tomorrow from 9.30-12.30. It's €59 for the session. Part of their play2learn series.

Could be worth a look if it suits & you're in bad need of some work

alxmorgan

spacecoyote wrote: »

As an FYI, if you're based near Dublin, I just got a mail from the spa well range stating they have a couple of places on a "Short Game Secrets" course available tomorrow from 9.30-12.30. It's €59 for the session. Part of their play2learn series.

Could be worth a look if it suits & you're in bad need of some work

Cheers for the heads up and it sounds good but I'm nowhere near unfortunately.

Letree

A lot of people who struggle with their chipping are far to rigid and uptight in their movement. Think how you would throw a tennis ball overhand to a 5 year old kid to catch. That soft fluid throw. Your chipping should feel like this. But don't decelerate.

alxmorgan

Cheers for all the input guys....just one thing to make clear we are talking pitching here and not chipping. Happy enough with my chipping.

bustercherry

alxmorgan wrote: »

Cheers for all the input guys....just one thing to make clear we are talking pitching here and not chipping. Happy enough with my chipping.

Most people don't know the difference

Montgolfier

hades wrote: »

Welcome to my world.

I have also tried the 2 techniques you've mentioned, and i secretly blame working on the Mickelson hinge and hold for ruining my short game. The Stricker seems a lot more repeatable.

I've gone for a few lessons on this, and what i find works for me is,

- Soft hands, this is only something i've come across recently, but make perfect sense. I was gripping far too tightly, my body in turn was becoming rigid and i'd socket the ball. Soft hands, with nice gentle grip on the club.

- Place a guideline (club/alignment aid) along the target line. This helped me visualize taking the club back along the correct path.

- Ball slightly forward of centre, with hands ahead of the ball make a nice easy practice swing. Making sure to keep that angle with your hands slightly ahead of the ball on your backswing and followthrough (if that makes sense). This stops the leading edge of the club getting ahead of the swing resulting in a top.

- Make a practice swing with a 2 second pause at the top of the backswing, and then hit thru the ball. This is really weird for to begin with, but its a nice way of building up tempo. Do 3 practice swings, then do the same thing but hit the ball.

- Do a few one handed pitches. Set up as described above, then take one hand off the club and put behind your back. 3 practice swings, hit one ball, do that a few times and then try the other hand. All the while focusing on maintaining the angle with hands in front of the ball, from set up to impact. And also bringing the club back along the right line.

It sounds a bit strange and feels a bit strange, but i've found working on this has helped me hugely. My general practice would be

3 x 3 normal practice swings, 1 ball swing
3 x 3 two second back swing stop practice swings, 1 two second stop ball swing
3 x 3 left hand only practice swings , 1 left hand only ball swing
3 x 3 right hand only practice swings, 1 right hand only ball swing
3 x 3 normal practice swings, 1 ball swing

If things are going a bit askew, just take a breather, walk around the practice green, check your phone etc. Because if you become frustrated you'll tighten up and that won't help you at all.

I hope this helps.

This is the reason golf is so hard....
Here's my tip look at the target and thrust yourself!
Whatever method you choose set up your feet while only looking at the target and don't care where it end up.
Thrust yourself instinctively you have done this a million times BELIEVE

alxmorgan

Montgolfier wrote: »

This is the reason golf is so hard....
Here's my tip look at the target and thrust yourself!
Whatever method you choose set up your feet while only looking at the target and don't care where it end up.
Thrust yourself instinctively you have done this a million times BELIEVE

I completely agree with you....the problem is I need to find a reason to trust. I need to find a setup and a method that I can trust. Once I can do that I can get back to target focus. But it's hard to focus on anything other than your discomfort when you stand over a ball with no trust left.

Montgolfier

alxmorgan wrote: »

I completely agree with you....the problem is I need to find a reason to trust. I need to find a setup and a method that I can trust. Once I can do that I can get back to target focus. But it's hard to focus on anything other than your discomfort when you stand over a ball with no trust left.

I have a simple pitching method. Set up looking at the target. Pitch has very little or no shaft lean. Hold the follow through like a putt.

alxmorgan

Montgolfier wrote: »

I have a simple pitching method. Set up looking at the target. Pitch has very little or no shaft lean. Hold the follow through like a putt.

How do you measure different distances ?
Feel or something like the clock method ?

Montgolfier

alxmorgan wrote: »

How do you measure different distances ?
Feel or something like the clock method ?

I don't I just look where I want it to go.
When you throw a tennis ball to your buddy how far do you move your arm back?
It's a subconscious move if you start to consciously trying to control your movement to achieve a distance your fecked.
Anything that complex can only be controlled by the subconscious mind, an example would be driving a car.

The first time you drove a car it jerked stuttered etc. After a few weeks you were driving smooth and didn't even think about it.

Chipping and pitching even the full swing is the same all controlled by the subconscious mind. The phrase getting in your own way is when you try to control a move with the conscious mind that should be done subconsciously.
The key is to focus on the target don't get upset if you miss or hit it fat just keep practicing and you will get good without thinking about it.

Rikand

bustercherry wrote: »

Most people don't know the difference

I'm one of them lol.

alxmorgan

Montgolfier wrote: »

I don't I just look where I want it to go.
When you throw a tennis ball to your buddy how far do you move your arm back?
It's a subconscious move if you start to consciously trying to control your movement to achieve a distance your fecked.
Anything that complex can only be controlled by the subconscious mind, an example would be driving a car.

The first time you drove a car it jerked stuttered etc. After a few weeks you were driving smooth and didn't even think about it.

Chipping and pitching even the full swing is the same all controlled by the subconscious mind. The phrase getting in your own way is when you try to control a move with the conscious mind that should be done subconsciously.
The key is to focus on the target don't get upset if you miss or hit it fat just keep practicing and you will get good without thinking about it.

Sounds perfect. My first thought on reading it is I can't throw a tennis ball 90 yards

I guess my point is up to a certain distance this sounds fine but I might struggle to trust it for shots of 70 yards +

Having said that I may as well give it a try

the greatest game

How about trying the double overlap grip, just for pitching, I have adopted it recently, and I find it fantastic ( jim furyk grip)

Look it up on youtube, keeps the right arm out of the pitch.. you should find everything going very straight .

alxmorgan wrote: »

Hey all,

Spent well over an hour pitching last night and it was shocking mostly. Left with a just about acceptable version.

I am well and truly confused now. Can't seem to find a method that I can trust. Considering trying the Stricker no wrists method and the Mickelson hinge and hold.

Would be interested to hear from anyone who has had similar troubles and come through it or good pitchers of the ball on what their methods are

thanks

alxmorgan

So slight update here....only had a half hour to work on it since but what I tried that seemed to improve it was:

• Ball forward
• Club in middle
• Weight and shaft lean slightly foward

Sounds a tad strange but forces me to hit through the ball almost like sliding club along ground to get through ball. Going a lot straighter. Distance control needs work. Very early but better.

Also tried double interlock (I interlock so took double overlap and adjusted it) for putting. Feels pretty solid and like it defo takes wrists out of it. Will give it a try for a bit