Belfast to get bus lane cameras - time for them in the Republic too?

monument

I know these are overdue in Dublin anyway...

"The Department of Regional Development has announced it will install six static cameras to monitor bus lanes in Belfast city centre - while a mobile detection unit will catch law-breakers on the main roads into the city."

http://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/belfast-bus-lanes-cameras-will-catch-drivers-illegally-using-lanes-31219210.html#player_load

Aard

The biggest problem with bus lanes is that taxis are allowed stop in them to take in or drop off a fare. Completely legal and completely inefficient.

n97 mini

I don't think it's a big problem here.

I think money would be better spent on whatever system it is that turns traffic lights green when a bus is approaching.

If we want to copy anything related from NI it should be the amber-before-green.

Mr. G

I think it's not an issue here really. When have I ever seen someone in a bus lane that shouldn't have been. The Gardaí will pull you over, I think that's enough.

I think money could be spent improving services like stopping serious anti social behaviour or bleach for the toilets in train stations. I have yet to see a train station with a clean bathroom.

jimmycrackcorm

n97 mini wrote: »

I don't think it's a big problem here.

I think money would be better spent on whatever system it is that turns traffic lights green when a bus is approaching.

If we want to copy anything related from NI it should be the amber-before-green.

I agree with this. I think people driving in the bus lane is generally restricted to nearby junctions where they can exit traffic and so actually help traffic flow.

pclive

Regular bus users would know this is a massive problem and leads to long delays:

Swords Road inbound at Whitehall Church
Conyngham Road onto Parkgate Street
Both bus lanes and both full of left turning vehicles blocking the bus. 2-3 min per bus could be saved each morning with proper enforcement

A relatively small investment would lead to faster journey times

LXFlyer

Every Dublin Bus vehicle already has a forward facing camera.

What's needed is legislation to use them.

pclive

Lxflyer would they be able to use these cameras for enforcement? Are they similar to the ones they use in London?

markpb

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

I agree with this. I think people driving in the bus lane is generally restricted to nearby junctions where they can exit traffic and so actually help traffic flow.

It helps cars at the expense of the hundreds of peoples stuck in the line of buses behind them.

I'd love bus lane cameras but Parisien-style bus lanes would be even better:

LXFlyer

pclive wrote: »

Lxflyer would they be able to use these cameras for enforcement? Are they similar to the ones they use in London?

They are identical to the ones in London.

I'm not sure as to the legalities, but I suspect legislation would be needed.

Their prime purpose at the moment would be (I'd guess) for use in the event of an accident.

LXFlyer

markpb wrote: »

It helps cars at the expense of the hundreds of peoples stuck in the line of buses behind them.

Exactly - the cars turning left cause serious delays to buses at quite a few locations around the city by not adhering to the road markings.

The inbound bus lane towards Terenure from the Dodder bridge is just ignored every day.

blackwhite

monument wrote: »

I know these are overdue in Dublin anyway...

"The Department of Regional Development has announced it will install six static cameras to monitor bus lanes in Belfast city centre - while a mobile detection unit will catch law-breakers on the main roads into the city."

http://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/belfast-bus-lanes-cameras-will-catch-drivers-illegally-using-lanes-31219210.html#player_load

Whilst I'd welcome more bus lane enforcement as a point of principal, if the State decided to spend money on traffic enforcement cameras I'd much prefer to see them focus on red-light cameras, and yellow box cameras.

cdebru

n97 mini wrote: »

I don't think it's a big problem here.

I think money would be better spent on whatever system it is that turns traffic lights green when a bus is approaching.

If we want to copy anything related from NI it should be the amber-before-green.

Really ?

Have a look at Conyngham Road of a morning as traffic in the bus lane backs up to Island bridge, the problem in Dublin is people queueing to turn left in the bus lane, people using the bus lane to make deliveries, people parking in the bus lane, taxis making unofficial taxi ranks in them, that all comes about because of complete lack of enforcement, no point in the lights at parkgate street turning green for the bus if it is stuck in a line of 50+ cars queueing in the bus lane.

cdebru

Aard wrote: »

The biggest problem with bus lanes is that taxis are allowed stop in them to take in or drop off a fare. Completely legal and completely inefficient.

A taxi stopping and picking up or dropping off is not a major issue, major issue is a truck parked for up to an hour making a delivery when there is an empty delivery bay meters away, or a taxi sitting in a bus lane effectively using it as a rank, or people nipping into the Spar or post office for 10/20 minutes, or people queuing in the bus lane, these are all far more disruptive to bus journey times.

n97 mini

cdebru wrote: »

that all comes about because of complete lack of enforcement, no point in the lights at parkgate street turning green for the bus if it is stuck in a line of 50+ cars queueing in the bus lane.

Cameras aren't enforcement. All the issues you talk about could probably be solved with redrawn road markings and/or gardai doing doing some policing for a while.

cdebru

n97 mini wrote: »

Cameras aren't enforcement. All the issues you talk about could probably be solved with redrawn road markings and/or gardai doing doing some policing for a while.

If you get a fixed penalty notice in the post that is enforcement, and yes if you redraw the lines so that there is no longer a bus lane then hey presto problem solved, jaysus well done how come no one has thought of this before.
And cameras are far cheaper and less disruptive to traffic flow than a Garda stopping cars in a bus lane to issue a fixed penalty.

Jamie2k9

This would be wonderful, the luas cameras have worked a treat particularly on Amien Street, gone from trams being held up daily to almost never at peak times.

monument

n97 mini wrote: »

I don't think it's a big problem here.

n97 mini wrote: »

I think money would be better spent on whatever system it is that turns traffic lights green when a bus is approaching.

Mr. G wrote: »

I think money could be spent improving services like stopping serious anti social behaviour or bleach for the toilets in train stations. I have yet to see a train station with a clean bathroom.

Camera enforcement should pay for itself.

blackwhite wrote: »

Whilst I'd welcome more bus lane enforcement as a point of principal, if the State decided to spend money on traffic enforcement cameras I'd much prefer to see them focus on red-light cameras, and yellow box cameras.

All of these systems should pay for their install cost and more, so the question of them being done is just political or the need to change legislation which is really just political anyway.

n97 mini wrote: »

Cameras aren't enforcement. All the issues you talk about could probably be solved with redrawn road markings and/or gardai doing doing some policing for a while.

Cameras can very much so be used for enforcement and where cameras can be used it frees up police time to police laws which cannot be enforced by cameras.

It's unclear how redrawing road markings will fix motorists breaking already clear road markings, unless you're suggesting to redraw the road markings to suit the current law breakers?

cython

Only this morning did I have a private car overtake me in the bus lane at the Croppy Acre (I was on a bike) while indicating left, and keep going up at least as far as Ellis Street (I overtook them again before the junction after they got stuck behind traffic) before turning in left. So this fool not only had an indicator on to turn left only to proceed straight through the next junction (which put me in doubt of overtaking sooner in case they would turn in on top of me), but clearly doesn't give a damn about bus lanes when they would just proceed to extend a queue of traffic in the lane!

I'd personally welcome this type of enforcement, as I pass another location which is terrible for it on the way home, just coming into Castleknock from the Phoenix Park, there is a bus lane that most people treat as the "driving straight on lane". I've actually seen buses have to go up the correct traffic lane (which becomes turn right), and merge back into the straight lane to get to the next phase of bus lane because of these morons clogging it up!

n97 mini

monument wrote: »

It's unclear how redrawing road markings will fix motorists breaking already clear road markings, unless you're suggesting to redraw the road markings to suit the current law breakers?

Maybe not clear enough.

cgcsb

would like to see in conjunction with using bus mounted cameras, but that'll only be able to take a snap of the license plate of the last car in the queue i.e. the rest of them would get off scot free. The fine should be sent straight to their address as it currently is with M50 tolls. There also needs to be some serious yellow box enforcement.

Muahahaha

Dorset St in the mornings can be chronic with delivery drivers blocking up bus lanes. Cameras would be welcome, they would solve the problem, pay for themselves and also ensure that Gardai have more time to solve more serious crimes. Its a no-brainer IMO

Terrontress

Using the cameras off the front of a bus means reviewing hours upon hours of footage for hundreds of buses, hoping for some transgression. You get Smart cars on London which have a telescopic camera on the roof. An operator inside takes video of people ignoring the rules and the fine is sent in the post.

cgcsb

Terrontress wrote: »

Using the cameras off the front of a bus means reviewing hours upon hours of footage for hundreds of buses, hoping for some transgression.

Or have a system where a driver can press a button when he sees such an event to flag for the person reviewing the footage. Then the person reviewing just goes to the flagged time index notes the license plate and issues a suitable fine.

monument

n97 mini wrote: »

Maybe not clear enough.

Are you suggesting that bus lane markings are generally not clear enough?

If motorists can't generally see bus lane markings they should not be driving as bus lane markings are the clearest markings going.

Markings which are for some reason worn away or obstructed or other need fixing should be fixed, but generally bus lane markings are as clear as can be.

n97 mini

monument wrote: »

Are you suggesting that bus lane markings are generally not clear enough?

You know I'm not, so you can stop trying to build a straw man.

Bus lane marking generally work, but some don't. Maybe a rethink and a redraw might yield results without resorting to cameras.

monument

n97 mini wrote: »

You know I'm not, so you can stop trying to build a straw man.

Bus lane marking generally work, but some don't. Maybe a rethink and a redraw might yield results without resorting to cameras.

Which bus lane markings are unclear? Any examples?