Team building events

markiemark2005

Hi folks,
Whats the story with not wanting to go on "team building" events? We got an email this morning telling us we have to go on one in a couple of weeks, its an all day event in some adventure park, followed by food and drinks. Its not really my thing as I prefer just to do my job and head home. Can I just refuse to go?

Thanks

Buona Fortuna

Hi Markiemark - I used to hate these too.

Is this scheduled for a normal workday, or a restday/weekend?

markiemark2005

Buona Fortuna wrote: »

Hi Markiemark - I used to hate these too.

Is this scheduled for a normal workday, or a restday/weekend?

A weekday, normal working hours. The food and drinks are after 5pm. We have been told we have to attend, which is something I dont agree with as surely we should be given the option of at least taking the day off?

Mrs OBumble

Does your job-description say "other duties as required" - if so, that's what covers the work you will be doing on this day. And yes, it is work.

You can ask for a day's leave if you want, but I doubt it will be approved this late in the day. Especially if you let them know why you're asking :-)

You can call in sick. But if you were even slightly public about your dislike of the event then it will be pretty obvious to them that you're not really sick.

Do you have a child-care or elder-care obligation that can't get out of, which means you can't past normal working hours? That might get you out of some of it (probably the best part, though).

With adventure park stuff, there should be a health and safety policy saying you don't have to do anything you're not comfortable with: some people have disabilities or medical conditions that don't impact their day-to-day jobs at all, but which make out-of-the-ordinary things dangerous (eg running gives you an asthma attack). So this might be a way to get out of some activities - but you will still have to go and watch/encourage other team members.

All that said:

And none of these will do your career prospects any good.

And presumably your manager has organised a team-building event to fix a particular problem within the team. Think about whether you want to be seen as part of the problem, or at least resisting the solution.



(I do sympathise: I hate these things too, and am being forced to go to drinks on Friday night with people who I wouldn't hang out with outside of work. I kinda resent work taking my personal time. But I view it as the "price" of having a salary.)

Buona Fortuna

I think MrsO sums it up.

These things are sh1t but if you value your career at this place at all, you may just have to suck it up.

All the best

markiemark2005

Thanks guys, have a week to decide between "career" or sanity.

Emsloe

I 'politely declined' one years ago and my boss went into orbit. Years on I can kinda see his point. I've been on a few since and whilst they weren't life changing, they weren't half as bad as I expected them to be.

Generally they're organised to integrate the team including those who do their job well and go home...you know, people like you OP

ec18

it's only a day.......just grin and bear it

Irish_Elect_Eng

I remember organizing one of these a few years ago when I had just started in my career, and it was an unmitigated disaster, a combination of "gross over-optimism on my behalf, staunch resistance on the teams behalf and terrible-terrible weather to top it off.

The really funny side of it was though that it really brought a team with little in common together, united in their moaning and bitching about the day. The whole team gave up on it and went to the nearest pub to warm up, staying until long past closing

In a really perverse way it gave them a common cause and met it's goals of uniting the team with a common purpose, just not the common purpose that I was hoping for :-)

C'est La Vie.

Stavro Mueller

Does anyone actually like these team-building days? I've yet to meet anyone who does. People just go along with it and sometimes it turns out to be a better day than you thought it would be. Depending on the sort of company you're in, it might be better to just grin and bear it. It's not going to hurt surely?

Aard

The only team building type thing I ever went on was kayaking and it was fantastic. What kind of awful hell have yizzer former employers sent yous on?!

Stheno

Stavro Mueller wrote: »

Does anyone actually like these team-building days? I've yet to meet anyone who does. People just go along with it and sometimes it turns out to be a better day than you thought it would be. Depending on the sort of company you're in, it might be better to just grin and bear it. It's not going to hurt surely?

I worked in one place where people did, it was horrific

They would decide they needed funds for something and insist on mandatory donations

bee06

I've been to a good few over the years (they're big in the multinationals) and they've all been great. Different activities / location for each and some were charity things as well as being for team building.

Stavro Mueller

A day in an adventure park doesn't sound like the worst sort of team-building day. We've gone on those in my job and they were grand. The only one I didn't like was in another job - they tacked on a session in a hotel where we had to do roleplaying and and solve puzzles and things like that. Now that was ugh. Give me an adventure park any day.

cml387

Probably a bit OT, but if you can, take a look at the episode of The Office (the Rick Gervais one) where they have a team building session. It is totally spot on in its awfullness.

Buona Fortuna

Aard excepted I don't think anyone likes them or looks forward to them.

I went on one years ago with a management consultant (FFS I could do that job), anyway he organised some sh1t games during which no matter what you were always wrong - even if you beat the silly game.

Funniest thing that we all talk about years later was the dinner. Usual conference hotel dinner (meh) - boss decides he will buy the wine. Queue a dick measuring contest between two of my contemporaries about who knew most about wine. End result they ordered the two most expensive reds off the list. The boss was fuming - thankfully not with me

InReality

If your really good at your job and get on very well with your boss etc , you might get away with not going.
Otherwise kinda have to do it. I find them kinda patronizing and irritating and think they are a bit cult like.

markiemark2005

InReality wrote: »

I find them kinda patronizing and irritating and think they are a bit cult like.

The big business certainly do act like cults. Need to win the lotto.

Stavro Mueller

You may be cutting off your nose to spite your face if you don't go. It all depends on the company you work for. Don't be silly for the sake of it.

Irish_Elect_Eng

There is a real introvert Vs extrovert split on these sort of team events. Perhaps take the approach with your boss that you are an introvert and such social situations actually are painful for you.

Aard

The whole point of these things is to overcome one's shyness in groups! By weedling out, you're taking a backwards step while everybody else makes common memories and a common referencepoint to look back on.

CatFromHue

The team building day outs aren't that bad as you're given something to do. They're much easier than going out to a pub or dinner with your work colleagues if you don't like them.

Alot of people dread them too but they usually are grand.

skallywag

I can see your point OP, and if you have a word in your boss's ear then I am sure you can get out of it.

Don't expect it to go down well with your colleagues though and you can most likely forget any real progression within the same company.

Wanderer2010

You should never be forced to spend time getting to know your workmates in this kind of a childish setting. In my experience, these team building events are painful and cringeworthy and do nothing to break up the cliques and cultures ingrained in a workplace. I have been on a few now and I hated every single second of it. I refused to do the last one and was told that its a workday so I took a days holidays for it. My boss just rolled his eyes when I asked for the day, but he knew its probably for the best as I will not even try anymore.

Basically work = work. Socializing = Socializing WITH YOUR FRIENDS. Anyone who has trouble with that equation really needs to get a life. Mixing with workmates is just a recipe for disaster.

Wanderer2010

skallywag wrote: »

I can see your point OP, and if you have a word in your boss's ear then I am sure you can get out of it.

Don't expect it to go down well with your colleagues though and you can most likely forget any real progression within the same company.

Why would you be denied progression based on not going to such an event? Arent promotions based on your ability to do the JOB IN HAND, and not your drinking ability? Im confused by your statement.

Aard

Team building is part of work.... As evidenced by this thread, not everybody knows how to work in a team.

skallywag

Wanderer2010 wrote: »

Why would you be denied progression based on not going to such an event? Arent promotions based on your ability to do the JOB IN HAND, and not your drinking ability? Im confused by your statement.

If your job has anything remotely to do with working well within a group dynamic then deliberately ducking such an event is certainly going to blot your copybook. I'm confused myself that you seem to think that team building events are all about drinking ability?

RainyDay

skallywag wrote: »

If your job has anything remotely to do with working well within a group dynamic then deliberately ducking such an event is certainly going to blot your copybook. I'm confused myself that you seem to think that team building events are all about drinking ability?

Aard wrote: »

Team building is part of work.... As evidenced by this thread, not everybody knows how to work in a team.

I'm confused myself that some people think Team Building for work is all about trying to build a raft in a forest. It's not, unless you work for ACME Artisan Raft Supplies.

skallywag

RainyDay wrote: »

I'm confused myself that some people think Team Building for work is all about trying to build a raft in a forest. It's not, unless you work for ACME Artisan Raft Supplies.

You are missing the whole point of the concept.

It's not about giving the team an exercise which relates to their normal day at work, it's more along the lines of having a group of people do something new which then encourages them to interact in a way which they may not have had up until that point.

RainyDay

skallywag wrote: »

You are missing the whole point of the concept.

It's not about giving the team an exercise which relates to their normal day at work, it's more along the lines of having a group of people do something new which then encourages them to interact in a way which they may not have had up until that point.

I'm not missing the point. I'm very clear on the point.

I'm challenging the premise that 'doing something new' with a team, such as building a raft in a forest, has any positive impact on their teamwork in a work context. Is there any scintilla of evidence that this works?

Or is just some HR people with too much budget finding a way to get rid of it?

skallywag

RainyDay wrote: »

I'm challenging the premise that 'doing something new' with a team, such as building a raft in a forest, has any positive impact on their teamwork in a work context. Is there any scintilla of evidence that this works?

I've personally experienced several examples where the team dynamic has improved by virtue of such exercises, in particular with respect to encouraging shyer members to come out of their shell, and also with improving the relationship between team members and supervisors.

I fully understand that there are those who simply wish to get the job done and go home, and will naturally do their best to give such events a swerve. And that's all well and good, and needs to be respected. In doing so though one is clearly limiting future potential promotion into team/project lead roles, or any other roles where softskills may be considered essential.

RainyDay

skallywag wrote: »

I've personally experienced several examples where the team dynamic has improved by virtue of such exercises, in particular with respect to encouraging shyer members to come out of their shell, and also with improving the relationship between team members and supervisors.

When I asked for evidence, I was looking for something more than personal experience or anecdote.

skallywag wrote: »

I fully understand that there are those who simply wish to get the job done and go home, and will naturally do their best to give such events a swerve. And that's all well and good, and needs to be respected. In doing so though one is clearly limiting future potential promotion into team/project lead roles, or any other roles where softskills may be considered essential.

'getting the job done and going home' and 'softskills' are not mutually exclusive. 'getting the job done and going home' and project/team lead roles are not mutually exclusive.

skallywag

RainyDay wrote: »

When I asked for evidence, I was looking for something more than personal experience or anecdote.

I have first hand experience of several instances where members of my own team have benefited in the manner that I described. I am not sure as to why would discount that as being proper evidence.

RainyDay wrote: »

'getting the job done and going home' and project/team lead roles are not mutually exclusive.

You can dress it up whatever way you like, but the fact still remains that openly avoiding an event such as this is going to damage your chances of moving to a project or team lead role in the future.

georgewickstaff

Its not a real life version of the Full Metal Jacket boot camp. Go with an open mind, you might actually enjoy it.

Bit of food etc, sounds alright to me.

RainyDay

skallywag wrote: »

I have first hand experience of several instances where members of my own team have benefited in the manner that I described. I am not sure as to why would discount that as being proper evidence.

Because evidence is independent and verifiable. When I say evidence, I don't mean anecdote. A paper in a peer-reviewed publication would be a good start.

Typically, such evidence would go beyond your own view as to whether people benefited. It would also get their view. It would also look at some metrics to confirm or deny the theory.

skallywag wrote: »

You can dress it up whatever way you like, but the fact still remains that openly avoiding an event such as this is going to damage your chances of moving to a project or team lead role in the future.

You may well be right, if the organisation in question is populated by small-minded managers who cannot distinguish between social events and getting the job done.

georgewickstaff wrote: »

Its not a real life version of the Full Metal Jacket boot camp. Go with an open mind, you might actually enjoy it.

Bit of food etc, sounds alright to me.

Indeed, it may well 'sound all right' to most people. But it certainly doesn't sound all right to everybody. Some people will abhor the idea of outdoor activities like this. Some people will abhor the idea of socialising with work mates. Some people will abhor the idea of getting back to their desk to find they are a day behind on the work they are expected to produce. What 'sounds all right' to you is not all right to everybody.

skallywag

RainyDay wrote: »

Typically, such evidence would go beyond your own view as to whether people benefited. It would also get their view. It would also look at some metrics to confirm or deny the theory

I'm not just counting on my own opinion here, I'm also considering feedback from the team afterwards, employee feedback at appraisal time, etc.

I fully accept that there are those, such as yourself, who take nothing bar contempt from such occasions, but I cannot argue with the fact that there are also those who do take positives, when I'm getting this feedback first hand myself in an open and honest environment.

RainyDay wrote: »

You may well be right, if the organisation in question is populated by small-minded managers who cannot distinguish between social events and getting the job done.

Do you really think that one can blatantly not attend something being billed as a team building event and then not have this effect the chances of being chosen for a leadership position in the future? You may think that I am being small minded with my logic, but that same logic is telling me that your opinion is quite naive.

triple nipple

RainyDay wrote:

You may well be right, if the organisation in question is populated by small-minded managers who cannot distinguish between social events and getting the job done.

Emmmm fáilte go Éirinn

RainyDay

skallywag wrote: »

I'm not just counting on my own opinion here, I'm also considering feedback from the team afterwards, employee feedback at appraisal time, etc.

That's why I mentioned 'independent' in terms of gathering evidence. There is a good chance that at least some of the participants will give a different view to an independent researcher than to their manager.

skallywag wrote: »

I fully accept that there are those, such as yourself, who take nothing bar contempt from such occasions, but I cannot argue with the fact that there are also those who do take positives, when I'm getting this feedback first hand myself in an open and honest environment.

Actually, I've generally enjoyed such events in the past, as I generally like outdoorsy-stuff, while taking the 'team building' bit with a large pinch of salt. And I don't dispute that there are those who do take positives.

But a team building event that is not designed to accommodate ALL members of the team is not going to achieve its objective.

skallywag wrote: »

Do you really think that one can blatantly not attend something being billed as a team building event and then not have this effect the chances of being chosen for a leadership position in the future? You may think that I am being small minded with my logic, but that same logic is telling me that your opinion is quite naive.

As I said, it depends on how small-minded the relevant decision-makers are.

Irish_Elect_Eng

There are a wide range of reasons to embark on team building activities, and there are a wide range of the activities and many work well if they are paired well with the initiating reason. Activities will be different for forming a new team from strangers, building on a particular shared skill or addressing a problem within the team. Where a particular activity is successful, it comes from the selection of the correct activity, preparation of the team, having the team understand the goal of the activity and buying into achieving that goal. Just like every other team activity.

Stavro Mueller

markiemark2005 wrote: »

Thanks guys, have a week to decide between "career" or sanity.

If this issue it's still a live one for the OP (he said he had a week to make up his mind and a week has now passed) the above quoted text is what needs to be borne in mind. Debating about how good or bad a team building day is won't help him.

The OP doesn't want to go and he'd be no different to a lot of people there. A lot of his colleagues would rather not be at the team building day either I'll bet. However if it is something that will be frowned upon by managers who buy into team building and will damage his career, then he's being needlessly childish. He might also be resented by fellow team members who sucked it up and went along for the day. These are all ifs though. It really all depends on where the OP works and the sort of job/career prospects/plans he has. It might be no big deal either - none of us can say.