Leaving cert subject choices.

BenMc

Well we were given our option forms for 5th year yesterday and they are due in in two days. Basically I wanted to do chemistry, biology, Spanish and art for my options and I can't get all of them because of a clash.
Now I have to choose between what's left.
Block 1: Spanish, that came up ok.
Block 2: chemistry and art came up together and I am completely distraught, they were the two I definitely wanted.
Block 3: there is ag. Science, physics, music, business biology, history(ordinary)
Block 4: DCG, accounting, biology, history, economics, geography (ordinary)

I'm definitely doing Spanish and biology.
And definitely either chemistry or art.
Then the 4th I'm not too sure. Maybe ag science/ physics / economics but I'm unsure. It's all so frustrating.
I am doing higher level everything just like JC And subjects aren't a big concern 9 As and 2Bs in JC so I can do most it's just these are the subjects I would be ok with doing.
Could someone please help especially on whether I should do the following:
1.
Biology
Chemistry/art
Ag science
Spanish

2.
Biology
Art/ chemistry
Physics
Spanish

3.
Biology
Chemistry/art
Economics
Spanish

I know it's messy but please could someone help I feel like I'm about to have a nervous breakdown.
Thanks.

qweerty

BenMc wrote: »

Well we were given our option forms for 5th year yesterday and they are due in in two days. Basically I wanted to do chemistry, biology, Spanish and art for my options and I can't get all of them because of a clash.
Now I have to choose between what's left.
Block 1: Spanish, that came up ok.
Block 2: chemistry and art came up together and I am completely distraught, they were the two I definitely wanted.
Block 3: there is ag. Science, physics, music, business biology, history(ordinary)
Block 4: DCG, accounting, biology, history, economics, geography (ordinary)

I'm definitely doing Spanish and biology.
And definitely either chemistry or art.
Then the 4th I'm not too sure. Maybe ag science/ physics / economics but I'm unsure. It's all so frustrating.
I am doing higher level everything just like JC And subjects aren't a big concern 9 As and 2Bs in JC so I can do most it's just these are the subjects I would be ok with doing.
Could someone please help especially on whether I should do the following:
1.
Biology
Chemistry/art
Ag science
Spanish

2.
Biology
Art/ chemistry
Physics
Spanish

3.
Biology
Chemistry/art
Economics
Spanish

I know it's messy but please could someone help I feel like I'm about to have a nervous breakdown.
Thanks.

Physics has a comparable A-rate to Chemistry but doesn't require the same amount of work. It's a big step-up from JC but definitely manageable if you got an A/B in JC Maths. The maths itself is no more advanced than JC, but the way it's used is. One of the most important abilities is to be comfortable with the "express a,b,c in terms of x' -type questions that are common on JC. But most of the course is either non-mathematical or only vaguely mathematical. Obviously satisfies a science-subject requirement.

Economics is certainly easier. It's also a good deal more boring. The course is over thirty years old and it feels it. Quite a low A-rate but I've no idea why. The exams are predictably structured and every question asked will be in past exam papers. Answers can be in informal bullet-point form.

I don't know why you're upset about potentially not being able to do Chemistry. But unless you need it to be able to do a course in university, there's no particular loss in not doing it. It's really long and not very interesting (imo). It's theory-based with little application. It strongly rewards rote-learning over understanding. A third of the twenty mandatory experiments use the same setup, so you're just doing the same thing but with different chemicals.

The stress of choosing your subjects will be a distant memory in a few weeks. Hope it works out

ThatsTheShtuff

BenMc wrote: »

Well we were given our option forms for 5th year yesterday and they are due in in two days. Basically I wanted to do chemistry, biology, Spanish and art for my options and I can't get all of them because of a clash.
Now I have to choose between what's left.
Block 1: Spanish, that came up ok.
Block 2: chemistry and art came up together and I am completely distraught, they were the two I definitely wanted.
Block 3: there is ag. Science, physics, music, business biology, history(ordinary)
Block 4: DCG, accounting, biology, history, economics, geography (ordinary)

I'm definitely doing Spanish and biology.
And definitely either chemistry or art.
Then the 4th I'm not too sure. Maybe ag science/ physics / economics but I'm unsure. It's all so frustrating.
I am doing higher level everything just like JC And subjects aren't a big concern 9 As and 2Bs in JC so I can do most it's just these are the subjects I would be ok with doing.
Could someone please help especially on whether I should do the following:
1.
Biology
Chemistry/art
Ag science
Spanish

2.
Biology
Art/ chemistry
Physics
Spanish

3.
Biology
Chemistry/art
Economics
Spanish

I know it's messy but please could someone help I feel like I'm about to have a nervous breakdown.
Thanks.

Bit late on this one, but leave out Art unless you're absolutely passionate about it,
and ideally unless you want to pursue a career in it.
To be honest, its one of the biggest time consumers in terms of Leaving Cert subjects,
and you really do have to absolutely adore it for that reason.
Your other choices (eg Biology, and possibly Physics), go well with Chemistry, naturally, and i would advise you to take Chemistry. It is a very commonly required subject for Medical based courses should you decide you want to take that route, so it would be a good idea.
In terms of your next choice, I might be biased because i do it, but Ag Science is such a good subject, dare i say, 'for points'. Much better than Physics, Economics etc.
Its not that it's 'easy' by any means, you have to put the work in. However, you will find its simple English, whereas Physics, Chemistry etc are like a whole new language of vocab you need to know, in order to even begin to understand a question!

For anyone choosing Ag Science, be weary that, okay, it is a nicer/simpler subject than some others, but there is nothing nice or simple about it if you have no interest in it! If you have less than no desire to learn about cattle, sheep, grass, soil, and diseases, then i wouldn't advise it! You won't enjoy studying a subject you don't like. The same as i wouldn't choose business or accounting!

Hope i helped

BenMc

Thanks for the responses.
I ended up putting down the following:
Spanish
Chemistry
Biology
Economics.

However, there is a problem. I keep debating in my mind about the subjects. And I keep coming to one thing. That is to switch economics with either ag science or physics. To be honest I have little interest in economics, or business in general. I'm pretty sure I don't want to do business after school and I'm leaning towards science. The thing is whenever you say three sciences people give you this look, and immediately question your choice. I can understand, I myself am wary of doing 3 sciences. I am also afraid of getting to sixth year and realising that however unlikely, I want to do a business course and not have any expertise.

I really don't know. This is our last week, then 4th year holiday to Rome and then graduation. So this is the last week for any changes, if allowed. There are quite a lot wanting to do economics and I don't want to take up a space for something I'm not mad about but someone else is.

I think physics is out cause I love half of the course and kind of dislike the other half. Then theres ag science. This is the first year our school has offered ag science so it's kind of a trial run. No one has a clue what it's like. Is the course long? I'm interested in some crops, animals and diseases etc. but not farm buildings or stuff like that.

I'm just so indecisive and I know this is probably the stupidest rant ever, and meaningless but could you expand on what ag science is like. Would you also be able to weigh in on doing 3 sciences and the economics dilemma.

Thanks so much.

qweerty

BenMc wrote: »

Thanks for the responses.
I ended up putting down the following:
Spanish
Chemistry
Biology
Economics.

However, there is a problem. I keep debating in my mind about the subjects. And I keep coming to one thing. That is to switch economics with either ag science or physics. To be honest I have little interest in economics, or business in general. I'm pretty sure I don't want to do business after school and I'm leaning towards science. The thing is whenever you say three sciences people give you this look, and immediately question your choice. I can understand, I myself am wary of doing 3 sciences. I am also afraid of getting to sixth year and realising that however unlikely, I want to do a business course and not have any expertise.

I really don't know. This is our last week, then 4th year holiday to Rome and then graduation. So this is the last week for any changes, if allowed. There are quite a lot wanting to do economics and I don't want to take up a space for something I'm not mad about but someone else is.

I think physics is out cause I love half of the course and kind of dislike the other half. Then theres ag science. This is the first year our school has offered ag science so it's kind of a trial run. No one has a clue what it's like. Is the course long? I'm interested in some crops, animals and diseases etc. but not farm buildings or stuff like that.

I'm just so indecisive and I know this is probably the stupidest rant ever, and meaningless but could you expand on what ag science is like. Would you also be able to weigh in on doing 3 sciences and the economics dilemma.

Thanks so much.

There's very little to be lost by not having studied business or economics at LC, so I would strongly urge against taking it in the belief that not taking it would limit your options. I wouldn't be concerned about doing three science subjects: Biology is just learning, so you may as well group it with business or some other fact-learning subject. What half of the physics course don't you like? LC physics is quite different from the JC physics component. (More so, imo, than either of the other sciences.)

BenMc

I really like atomic physics, particle physics, heat and magnetism. I think electricity and optics/waves are ok. I'm not mad on applied electricity and I don't like mechanics as far as I know. Overall these are just from what i know, as in they're not set in stone opinions because I haven't actually studied the topics.

But to be honest the maths in the physics course scares me. I got an A in higher JC maths and science but just looking at exam papers for physics I think it looks really intense.

I don't know physics just kind of looks scary. Plus the teacher for physics, her voice is ugh. She isn't the best teacher in all honesty. But apparently a teacher that left about ten years ago, before my era, is coming back and is getting the class. He is meant to be great.

I just don't know to be honest. I guess it's between sticking with economics, toughing it out and maybe liking it. Taking a chance with ag science, a subject that would tie in with my chem and bio. Ag science would also be risky. And then physics, the one I'm fearful of, yet if I took the chance ctould pay off.

Thanks again, apologies for my indecisiveness.

qweerty

Pretty impressive that you've looked through a textbook or the syllabus! First, you'd study either particle physics or applied electricity. Almost everyone does particle physics, so that's that snag dealt with!!

The maths is deceptively easy. The majority of mathematical questions involve inputting values that you're given into formulas that are in the log tables. You'd certainly manage with an A at JC. But the thing is that most of the syllabus isn't mathematical. When you go through past papers, remember that they test a student's ability after two years of study. It's inevitable, therefore, that they'd look intimidating. Anyone I know who did physics (and wasn't failing it) really enjoyed it. I can't say the same of economics.

BenMc

I think that the most probable scenario is that I'm going to switch from economics. Then the second thing is ag science or physics. As stated our school has never run ag science but anyone I know doing or wanting to do physics say it's great. So that's that.

What's your opinion on the physics course and is there much mechanics?

Also do you have to learn a lot of formulas for the course.

I'm also concerned about physics being more about understanding rather than learning.

I've also done a bit of physics maths in maths and I'm not sure, I.e. The centroid and stuff.

qweerty

BenMc wrote: »

I think that the most probable scenario is that I'm going to switch from economics. Then the second thing is ag science or physics. As stated our school has never run ag science but anyone I know doing or wanting to do physics say it's great. So that's that.

What's your opinion on the physics course and is there much mechanics?

Also do you have to learn a lot of formulas for the course.

I'm also concerned about physics being more about understanding rather than learning.

I've also done a bit of physics maths in maths and I'm not sure, I.e. The centroid and stuff.

Mechanics is the single largest topic! All formulas are in the log book. You can make up for a lack of understanding by learning. But I guess it calls for a bit more understanding than most subjects. My opinion on the course? I guess it's quite good. Covers all the classical topics. But modern and particle physics are barely covered. And as a preparation for further study, it's pretty inadequate - Applied Maths is much better in that regard.

None of the maths is from topics more advanced than the JC. It's just that the questions are more challenging.

Go on, be a legend and do physics!

BenMc

Ha, I'll see about being a legend. Tomorrow I'm going to go into easons and just look at the books for LC, and make a final decision. And I'm going to stick with it. Right now it looks like physics or ag.
. Sorry for bothering you so much but could you also describe to me what the mechanics section covers, how long it takes and just what it's like.

Also are you done with LC, And if so what did you get in physics?

Thanks again.

ThatsTheShtuff

If it helps to make your decision easier, Ag is the easier A!
I'm doing it at the moment, a word of warning would be don't take it on unless you are actually interested in it!
Also, there is a good overlap with Ag Science and Biology, and a certain overlap with Ag Science and Chemistry, which may help you may your decision! Physics is a totally unrelated subject in relation to the other two you have chosen, as far as i can make out

qweerty

ThatsTheShtuff wrote: »

If it helps to make your decision easier, Ag is the easier A!

I don't agree with that. The content may be easier, but I would sooner have banked on myself getting an A in Physics than in it.

BenMc wrote: »

Ha, I'll see about being a legend. Tomorrow I'm going to go into easons and just look at the books for LC, and make a final decision. And I'm going to stick with it. Right now it looks like physics or ag.
. Sorry for bothering you so much but could you also describe to me what the mechanics section covers, how long it takes and just what it's like.

Also are you done with LC, And if so what did you get in physics?

Thanks again.

Here's the syllabus. That's quite a broad request! I'm not sure I can succincty summarise it. Basically, mechanics looks at how a body reacts to external forces. So, you'll study equations of motion that enable you to answer questions like, "A car travelling at 15 m/s brakes to avoid crashing into another car 100m away. What's the minumum deceleration required?" You'll study springs, pendulums, bodies undergoing circular motion (from a ball on a string to a planet in orbit) and collisions of objects like snooker balls. The physics of motion, I guess. But a very simplified version.

I'm not really sure how long it takes, tbh. In and around three months, I'd guess. What is it like?! Em...I'm not really sure what to say. Answers are short and precise - e.g. Q. Define pressure A. Pressure = Force / Area. (A question such as that would be worth 4/6 marks - i.e. 1-1.5% overall.) Syllabus isn't particularly long, so you'd finish up earlier than in most subjetcs. (Certainly than Chem or Bio.) While there are usually some twists on the exam paper, most of it is very similar to what came up in previous years.

If you want to ask more specific questions I'd be happy to give my opinion.

I'm in college. And I got an A

BenMc

I don't know if you'd know but is there any overlap at all with chemistry, or even biology? And what's your opinion on ag science, just curious.

And by doing three sciences is it too much science, because I keep getting told that by our schools condescending guidance counsellor and she keeps saying that I won't do well in the LC. I didn't even think that would be a factor. I mean I love going to science class now, and even in JC. I don't see how it could change. What is your opinion on 3 sciences and it being too much. Because I'm not sure I see the problem.

Thanks for the helpfulness, it's great having someone talk to you level-headedly and understand or debate these things with. Everyone seems to find it head wrecking and ignore me when I ask so ... Thank you.

qweerty

BenMc wrote: »

I don't know if you'd know but is there any overlap at all with chemistry, or even biology? And what's your opinion on ag science, just curious.

And by doing three sciences is it too much science, because I keep getting told that by our schools condescending guidance counsellor and she keeps saying that I won't do well in the LC. I didn't even think that would be a factor. I mean I love going to science class now, and even in JC. I don't see how it could change. What is your opinion on 3 sciences and it being too much. Because I'm not sure I see the problem.

Thanks for the helpfulness, it's great having someone talk to you level-headedly and understand or debate these things with. Everyone seems to find it head wrecking and ignore me when I ask so ... Thank you.

No overlap with Biology. A small amount of overlap with Chemistry, but nothing that should alter your decision. I don't know enough about Ag Science to comment meaningfully.

Like you, I can't see any problem with doing the three sciences. As I said before, Bio is probably closer to some non-science subjects (in terms of how you learn it) than it is to Physics. I imagine that the sciences probably require more work than subjects like business/geography to get a C/D. But I suspect you'll be aiming for A/B's.

Haha. No problem!

BenMc

So I think physics might be out, and now it's down to switching to ag science or staying with economics.
Could somebody please inform me about ag science or economics from personal experience, that would be great.
Also, is ag science a learning subject or a more understanding subject?

Thanks for the help.

ThatsTheShtuff

BenMc wrote: »

So I think physics might be out, and now it's down to switching to ag science or staying with economics.
Could somebody please inform me about ag science or economics from personal experience, that would be great.
Also, is ag science a learning subject or a more understanding subject?

Thanks for the help.

I've done Ag Science for 3 years now, as i did 5th year twice, and i'm doing the Leaving this year. It's neither a learning nor understanding subject to be honest.
Once you're told something in class once, its pretty straight forward to pick up from the first time, and it's only a matter of re-reading/revising coming up to exams.
There's very little that's difficult to understand on the course, bar a few chemistry based principles in soil science (eg. cation exchange in soil). Other than that, once the teacher explains it, for most people it's in their head! I'm a culchie though, whether that makes any difference, but i reckon it does. Therefore, a good part of what you learn is actually common knowledge, and can be applied to every day stuff, unlike Physics (in my opinion), where it's hard to understand and must be learned, because it's not stuff that's used every day!

BenMc

Thanks for the reply, what other subjects do you do along with ag science?
Also what do you think I should do in the situation, I know it's my choice but I'm so uncertain on whether to stick with economics and chance it or switch to ag science which I like the idea of and would tie in with chem and bio.
Thanks.

ThatsTheShtuff

BenMc wrote: »

Thanks for the reply, what other subjects do you do along with ag science?
Also what do you think I should do in the situation, I know it's my choice but I'm so uncertain on whether to stick with economics and chance it or switch to ag science which I like the idea of and would tie in with chem and bio.
Thanks.

I do Ag Science, Biology, Chemistry, Home Economics, French. So all science-based stuff!
I know I certainly can feel the benefit of the overlap, for the likes of Genetics that not everyone understands straight away, you get the advantage of another try in Ag Science after Biology, and it seems to me that where overlaps do occur between them, the students who do both Biology and Ag have no problem!

I can't say much about Economics, but from what I've heard it's pretty difficult.
Having said that, it might be good to have a businessy subject to back you, but keep in mind that should you decide to study anything business-based in college, you don't actually need to have any experience with the subjects, unlike a science/medical course, where 9 times out of 10, you need Chemistry!

At the end of the day, could your school allow you to change a few weeks in if you decide it's not for you?

qweerty

ThatsTheShtuff wrote: »

...unlike a science/medical course, where 9 times out of 10, you need Chemistry!

This is a common misconception. In fact, only seven third level courses require it:

UCC - Pharmacy, Medicine, Dentistry
UCD - Veterinary
TCD - Pharmacy
DIT - 2 courses in human nutrition

Most science courses require any one or two subjects from Bio, Chem, Physics, Ag Science and the joint Physics and Chemistry subject. TCD and UCC often include Applied Maths in that group. UCD accepts Geography from applicants to Science, and TCD accepts Geography for Science and a few others.