Quigg V Kiko 18 July

boxer.fan

Underground wrote: »

Scott Quigg all set to fight Kiko on July 18. Would love to see a Kiko KO win.

I think Kiko poses a lot of danger, but I have a feeling that his two losses to Carl, which were hard and tough and physical may well have physically hurt him. He likely won't be the same force vs. Quigg!


This fight is very interesting in that it will let us know where exactly Quigg is at, assuming Kiko has a bit left in the tank.

megadodge

In before Walshie tells us all how useless Kiko is.

walshb

megadodge wrote: »

In before Walshie tells us all how useless Kiko is.

You need to read back over some of my recent stuff on Kiko. For me the guy actually has shown improvements. He is always value for money, and has a terrific engine and desire.

megadodge

walshb wrote: »

You need to read back over some of my recent stuff on Kiko. For me the guy actually has shown improvements. He is always value for money, and has a terrific engine and desire.

Wait for it.... I agree with you.

I think it's a tough fight for Quigg, which will tell us a lot about how good he is or isn't.

walshb

megadodge wrote: »

Wait for it.... I agree with you.

I think it's a tough fight for Quigg, which will tell us a lot about how good he is or isn't.

The two hard losses to Carl may have taken some of the heart and fight from Kiko. We'll see in the summer, if not then Quigg is in a fight, just as Carl was.

Deiseboy01

I may be mistaken but didn't Kiko win three 'world' title fights post the first Frampton fight? No argument to say that fight took anything from him.

I think the second might have but I still think he gives Quigg all sorts of problems, Quigg has been fighting pretty small opposition, no one with the workrate or power of Kiko.

If Kiko is on it a few quid on an early stoppage would be a value bet.

Big Ears

walshb wrote: »

You need to read back over some of my recent stuff on Kiko. For me the guy actually has shown improvements. He is always value for money, and has a terrific engine and desire.

He didn't always, his stamina used actually be quite poor. His work with this guy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eufemiano_Fuentes may have some part to do with that. But we can't discuss that on the forum so I'll leave that there.

Anyway, if Kiko comes with the same ambition he had for his title fights then Quigg could be in serious trouble. Kiko stoppage win for me.

Deiseboy01 wrote: »

I may be mistaken but didn't Kiko win three 'world' title fights post the first Frampton fight? No argument to say that fight took anything from him.

He did but a World title opportunity is a great motivating factor for a fighter, and the first Frampton fight was close until Frampton landed the big shot. Kiko could have thought it was just one 'lucky' shot or one bad night. Now he knows for sure he's not the best Super-Bantamweight in the World, and that he likely can't beat Frampton even if he were to face him several times. That's very psychologically damaging for a fighter.

The 3 guys he beat were very good fighters in those title fights. Romero, Mathebula and Hasegawa, all title holders themselves at some point.

TheNap

Still not convinced by Quigg.

Dont think he at Carls level.

Really looking forward to this fight though so i can get my answer

Alpha_zero

I would give Kiko a great chance in this one as Quigg has languished fighting very mediocre opposition since he was given the belt. However Frampton has also indulged in one or two mismatches with both clearly avoiding the man at 122 which is Rigo.

Rigo is not infallible though and we have seen him being rocked on a couple of occasions, I remember against a guy called Robert Maroquin who he was out boxing with ease, but was getting visible shook up on numerous occasions. Both Framton and Quigg are reticent to leave their respective home town advantages.

Had Frampton stayed with Hearn this fight would be happening now and Barry with his mickey mouse promotional outfit are clearly an impediment to this fight happening. He lacks the clout and financial muscle needed to promote. This is clearly the most lucrative match up for both these guys, baring Santa Cruz which would require either guy to travel to America.

I hope Kiko gets a neutral ref for the fight which means no British ref, they make some horrendous stoppages 3 unanswered punches and a TKO and their bias to the British fighter.

megadodge

Alpha_zero wrote: »

I would give Kiko a great chance in this one as Quigg has languished fighting very mediocre opposition since he was given the belt. However Frampton has also indulged in one or two mismatches with both clearly avoiding the man at 122 which is Rigo.

Rigo is not infallible though and we have seen him being rocked on a couple of occasions, I remember against a guy called Robert Maroquin who he was out boxing with ease, but was getting visible shook up on numerous occasions. Both Framton and Quigg are reticent to leave their respective home town advantages.

Had Frampton stayed with Hearn this fight would be happening now and Barry with his mickey mouse promotional outfit are clearly an impediment to this fight happening. He lacks the clout and financial muscle needed to promote. This is clearly the most lucrative match up for both these guys, baring Santa Cruz which would require either guy to travel to America.

I hope Kiko gets a neutral ref for the fight which means no British ref, they make some horrendous stoppages 3 unanswered punches and a TKO and their bias to the British fighter.

So bringing a fighter who was definitely not a 'star' amateur to a world title, beating some fine fighters along the way, boxing in front of packed out arenas and having a lot of knowledgable people worldwide talking about him in glowing terms equates to a mickey mouse promoter?

Make no mistake about it, Quigg needs Frampton a lot more than the other way around. Frampton is a big ticket-seller, Quigg inevitably ends up on somebody else's undercard. That just about says it all for their respective promoters.

boxer.fan

Alpha_zero wrote: »

I would give Kiko a great chance in this one as Quigg has languished fighting very mediocre opposition since he was given the belt. However Frampton has also indulged in one or two mismatches with both clearly avoiding the man at 122 which is Rigo.

Rigo is not infallible though and we have seen him being rocked on a couple of occasions, I remember against a guy called Robert Maroquin who he was out boxing with ease, but was getting visible shook up on numerous occasions. Both Framton and Quigg are reticent to leave their respective home town advantages.

Had Frampton stayed with Hearn this fight would be happening now and Barry with his mickey mouse promotional outfit are clearly an impediment to this fight happening. He lacks the clout and financial muscle needed to promote. This is clearly the most lucrative match up for both these guys, baring Santa Cruz which would require either guy to travel to America.

I hope Kiko gets a neutral ref for the fight which means no British ref, they make some horrendous stoppages 3 unanswered punches and a TKO and their bias to the British fighter.

Hearn's recent promotions more resemble a mickey mouse operation than any of cyclone's efforts to be fair. Quigg has a pretty poor following, maybe a couple thousand tickets at best.

Alpha_zero

megadodge wrote: »

So bringing a fighter who was definitely not a 'star' amateur to a world title, beating some fine fighters along the way, boxing in front of packed out arenas and having a lot of knowledgable people worldwide talking about him in glowing terms equates to a mickey mouse promoter?

Make no mistake about it, Quigg needs Frampton a lot more than the other way around. Frampton is a big ticket-seller, Quigg inevitably ends up on somebody else's undercard. That just about says it all for their respective promoters.

This logic that one guy needs the other guy more, or this guys is the real paper champion is not conducive to the fight happening. Well part of Frampton's career was promoted by Hearn correct. If he was still promoted by Hearn realistically the fight could be happening in Belfast.

Don't the McGugins both manage and promote Frampton which could lead to some conflicts of interests right. I just want the fight to happen. Yes but Mickey Mouse sorry cyclone have Carl Frampton full stop, whereas Hearn has more big name fighters.

Alpha_zero

boxer.fan wrote: »

Hearn's recent promotions more resemble a mickey mouse operation than any of cyclone's efforts to be fair. Quigg has a pretty poor following, maybe a couple thousand tickets at best.

Yes but wouldn't it need to be PPV in order to generate big purses, which would need other recognisable names, names that mickey mouse promotions don't have.

It should be a 50/50 split of the purse between them, this logic where one guy needs the other more, or he is the real paper champ is puerile.

megadodge

Alpha_zero wrote: »

This logic that one guy needs the other guy more, or this guys is the real paper champion is not conducive to the fight happening. Well part of Frampton's career was promoted by Hearn correct. If he was still promoted by Hearn realistically the fight could be happening in Belfast.

Don't the McGugins both manage and promote Frampton which could lead to some conflicts of interests right. I just want the fight to happen. Yes but Mickey Mouse sorry cyclone have Carl Frampton full stop, whereas Hearn has more big name fighters.

The bottom line is Barry McGuigan has done a really good job with Carl Frampton's career.

That's his job.

Ergo he's good at promoting!

Alpha_zero

pac_man wrote: »

No it shouldn't. One is a world champion, the other isn't. One fills out arenas,the other fights on undercards. They both need each other but it appears that egos and tv networks need to be worked on.

Rigo is the world champ and all other belt holders are giving him a wide berth.

walshb

Alpha_zero wrote: »

Rigo is the world champ and all other belt holders are giving him a wide berth.

Rigo is one-two WC. Frampton owns the IBF belt. That is a legitimate version of a world belt. Until both meet then neither is the best. Quigg is the imposter. Any interim or regular belts are not WCs for me. Rigo's Ring belt is just that, a belt! He gets far too much adulation and reverence IMO.

Big Ears

walshb wrote: »

Rigo is one WC. Frampton owns the IBF belt. That is a legitimate version of a world belt. Until both meet then neither is the best. Quigg is the imposter. Any interim or regular belts are not WCs for me.

While in one sense what you say is correct. However Rigo and Donaire were clearly the #1 and #2 guys in the World at the weight and they fought each other, and did so at a time when no other man could claim to be the lineal champion at the weight. Therefore Rigo is the true World champion at Super-Bantamweight.
Donaire actually was the Ring champion at the weight before that if you put any credence in what they say.

So in that sense if you want the true champion at the weight its Rigo. If you're playing alphabet soup then of course Quigg's belt is a lesser one, because the WBA already have a higher ranked champion at that weight (in Rigo), and imo Frampton has a better record and better performances in general so would have to be placed above Quigg anyway.

As for what way some split should go ?, really I don't give a ****, I just want to see the fight. I'd hope both would be paid well as they seem like nice guys, but ultimately I'm selfish and just want to see the fight.
I actually thought 60-40 to the winner was a decent idea, but who knows if that's the only complications there was to that offer.


Might all be up in **** now, the fight just wouldn't be the same if Kiko gets the job done here.

Deiseboy01

Alpha_zero wrote: »

I would give Kiko a great chance in this one as Quigg has languished fighting very mediocre opposition since he was given the belt. However Frampton has also indulged in one or two mismatches with both clearly avoiding the man at 122 which is Rigo.

Rigo is not infallible though and we have seen him being rocked on a couple of occasions, I remember against a guy called Robert Maroquin who he was out boxing with ease, but was getting visible shook up on numerous occasions. Both Framton and Quigg are reticent to leave their respective home town advantages.

Had Frampton stayed with Hearn this fight would be happening now and Barry with his mickey mouse promotional outfit are clearly an impediment to this fight happening. He lacks the clout and financial muscle needed to promote. This is clearly the most lucrative match up for both these guys, baring Santa Cruz which would require either guy to travel to America.

I hope Kiko gets a neutral ref for the fight which means no British ref, they make some horrendous stoppages 3 unanswered punches and a TKO and their bias to the British fighter.

Freddie Roach said Rigo was thinking of training undee him. If that happens its obviously designed to make him a more exciting offensive fighter. Mistake on Rigo s behalf if so, as you mention above he doesn't seem to have the best chin in the world.

megadodge

Deiseboy01 wrote: »

Freddie Roach said Rigo was thinking of training undee him. If that happens its obviously designed to make him a more exciting offensive fighter. Mistake on Rigo s behalf if so, as you mention above he doesn't seem to have the best chin in the world.

I agree totally.

I presume you read that in last week's Boxing News. Good article.
I'm not certain Roach would try to change him too much though. He's smart enough to realise that trying to change Rigo significantly at this stage could end up being disastrous.

boxer.fan

Deiseboy01 wrote: »

Freddie Roach said Rigo was thinking of training undee him. If that happens its obviously designed to make him a more exciting offensive fighter. Mistake on Rigo s behalf if so, as you mention above he doesn't seem to have the best chin in the world.

Rigo has been down a few times but I would say his chin is solid enough. He never seemed sparked when on the canvas, it was more like he was caught off balance. His amateur record would strongly suggest a solid chin also, there's no way a Cuban racks up a record like that without getting hit clean a few times.

walshb

boxer.fan wrote: »

Rigo has been down a few times but I would say his chin is solid enough. He never seemed sparked when on the canvas, it was more like he was caught off balance. His amateur record would strongly suggest a solid chin also, there's no way a Cuban racks up a record like that without getting hit clean a few times.

But also, he was never really clocked very clean. He went down from innocuous type shots. Balance played a part as well. I will wait to see how his chin is if and when it gets tagged hard.

megadodge

I have to say, even though I'm a big Rigo fan, I think his chin could be suspect. As Walshb said, some of the shots that have put him down were innocuous enough and I'm not convinced balance was entirely the reason. He has superb footwork and balance, so I just think there's a weakness there.
He does recover very quickly though!

Big Ears

megadodge wrote: »

I have to say, even though I'm a big Rigo fan, I think his chin could be suspect. As Walshb said, some of the shots that have put him down were innocuous enough and I'm not convinced balance was entirely the reason. He has superb footwork and balance, so I just think there's a weakness there.
He does recover very quickly though!

Lets not forget he's really a Bantamweight aswell tbh. He's mainly fighting naturally bigger men, Marroquin for instance moved straight upto Super-Featherweight after fighting him. Amagasa was a big sized career Featherweight who boiled down to Super-Bantamweight just to face him.
I suppose regardless of that, the fact is he fights at Super-Bantamweight and the top guys at the weight other than himself aren't just big at the weight but big punchers too.


I'm surprised to see anyone even mention Santa Cruz when it comes to the top Super-Bantamweights anymore. He may still hold a belt, but he's moved up and is not going to be put into a competitive fight unless its an Al Haymon fighter. He'll likely fight Mares this year, then win or lose they'll find him an easy opportunity to win a title at Featherweight, fight no one for 2-3 years talking of a big fight and then move up in weight and repeat (with less success).

walshb

Bottom line is that Rigo and his team would want to get a fooking move on and decide what he is going to do as regards his legacy.

walshb

pac_man wrote: »

Crolla fighting on this card aswell. Watched a bit of Perez last night and it looks like he could be outworked and is beatable but Crolla is very average. Think I might need to watch a few more fights but from what i saw, 10/11 for a perez win might not be a bad bet.

The lightweight division is hot over in this side of the world which is nice to see.

Crolla has very little strength. It will be his downfall here.

walshb

Mad is right. Isn't Derry Matthews now being called a WC?

Alpha_zero

walshb wrote: »

Rigo is one-two WC. Frampton owns the IBF belt. That is a legitimate version of a world belt. Until both meet then neither is the best. Quigg is the imposter. Any interim or regular belts are not WCs for me. Rigo's Ring belt is just that, a belt! He gets far too much adulation and reverence IMO.

Rigo is universally recognized as the legitimate champ at 122. It is asinine to argue who's the better fake champ considering that both Frampton and Quigg are avoiding Rigo in equal measure.

I feel that a 50/50 split will be required to make this fight happen not that I care who gets what, just make the fight already. Both guys are at a similar junctures in their careers unbeaten, exclusively home town fighters, with alphabet titles, same geographical location and some nice padding on both their records.

I still feel that Donaire can have an impact on this division as he has that one punch ending power. He had Walters badly hurt who was a little fortuitous that it happened on the bell though he recovered well. I think Donaire could demolish quigg.

boxer.fan

Alpha_zero wrote: »

I think Donaire could demolish quigg.

I'd say nonito would give him nightmares

Tiger Mcilroy

Kiko at 3/1 to win anyway is a nice price for a fighter that has shown marked improvement and carries good power. Granted i dont rate quigg at all but see this fight much closer unless the ref helps quigg out at some stage with the "eddie hearn 2 punches unanswered stoppage rule".

walshb

Quigg's best chance is to pump the jab from range and keep Kiko at bay as best he can, and then work that body hard in close. Quigg is a good and tidy body puncher. I think he can hurt and drain Kiko with body work. Can Quigg take Kiko's clean shots? A high and tight guard will be employed throughout from Quigg, with the chin tucked into his chest.