Purebred heifer - sideline interest

patjack

Hi All,

The OH and I were thinking about buying a purebred heifer just as a side interest. The OH is quite enamoured with the Hereford breed whilst I'd be leaning towards buying an Angus.

As stated this is more for interest, to see if we can cut the mustard in terms of sire selection and subsequent success of progeny.

If the progeny were good enough we'd try our hand at a bit of showing.

We've been to a few Hereford show and sales of late. Like I said it's small scale and just for a bit of interest.

Anyone on here have a purebred cow or two for such purposes?

If so what breeds?

ALANC81

We have a 30 cow herd of pbr Limousins. If you do go pb buy the best you can and go from there. If you buy average you'll breed average at least for the first few years. If you want to do well in the show ring you have to have good stock so going back to what I already said buy the best you can there's no point in showing if you don't. Hereford and Angus are doing well in the bull sales now.

bogman_bass

If you are interested in traditional breeds then I would get the best polled heifer you can afford.

Thats the way the breed is moving towards now and you might as well be ahead of the curve

whelan2

go to the farm and see the dam of any heifer you are buying,, we have pb angus

AntrimGlens

whelan2 wrote: »

go to the farm and see the dam of any heifer you are buying,, we have pb angus

hint, hint, nudge, nudge, wink, wink - you not think taking a hand out of Reggie was enough now you want to be taking advantage of patjack. Sure does Reggie not have a contract with you now for all angus calves?

at this rate of going you'll be having an open day for us all...:D:D

Tornbrook

ALANC81 wrote: »

We have a 30 cow herd of pbr Limousins. If you do go pb buy the best you can and go from there. If you buy average you'll breed average at least for the first few years. If you want to do well in the show ring you have to have good stock so going back to what I already said buy the best you can there's no point in showing if you don't. Hereford and Angus are doing well in the bull sales now.

Couldn't agree more. do your homework, and be prepared to spend the money at the start. don't be afraid to ask questions.

I bought a PB Limo heifer 2 years ago at a pedigree sale. I'm happy with her and she had a good calf last year. If I had the chance again, I'd do a lot more research, and I would probably ended up spending more.

Find out who the top breeders and show winners are, what bulls they are using who has the top cow, who are buying their bulls and heifers.

Lastly, PB's can be harder to get in calf than commercial, which could make life interesting when you are breeding.

its a very interesting subject, very enjoyable to breed top quality stock.

Justjens

Bought a bull off an Angus breeder in Cork last week, some of the best Angus cattle I've seen in ages. He was bulling some heifers, not sure if they will be for sale.

He topped the show at Kilmallock last week, Res Champ €4000. if I was in the market that's where I'd be going.

He also has a few polled HE but I didn't see any heifers, one other polled HE breeder in Monaghan and there's the Udel HE herd in Wexford, where my current stock bull came from.

Whatever you choose be prepared to travel.....

Sheep breeder

the pedigree game at present could be over supplied with stock compared to buyers, as for buying it is important to study breeding first before purchasing any animal, as with most breeds it is like fashion it comes and goes and changes, as for showing a lot of it is down to is holding the animal and name,

whelan2

AntrimGlens wrote: »

hint, hint, nudge, nudge, wink, wink - you not think taking a hand out of Reggie was enough now you want to be taking advantage of patjack. Sure does Reggie not have a contract with you now for all angus calves?

at this rate of going you'll be having an open day for us all...:D:D

these are pedigree. The last few years pb aa heifers where going for export, this got rid of alot of plainer stock.

joejobrien

Buy a few of each, cant go wrong!!!!

wiggy123

angus on a high at mo..
as said buy the right animal at start... foundation stone, important!
re where to buy etc... sometimes the best animal, re shows might not produce good offspring..so do your homework re breeding history etc..
as said check dam/siblings etc...
money can be made--not retire on it..
re showing game--sometimes its the handler not the animal that win's out..get my drift...

Mad4simmental

The HE gene pool is very small, so it might be worth your time to investigate a bit and go over the water to try get sum new blood. No point in producing the same as everyone elce.

I'm thinking of trying 4 sim embryos this year. Has anyone done this before? Where Is the best place to go looking for a few good quality embryos?

wiggy123

chap in Cavan does them..
can be expensive job, and unsure if 100% successful.. re try for 4, get maybe only 1...
suppose depends on a lot... great way to improve ur herd or take in new bloodlines etc...

patjack

Thanks for all the helpful replies, we won't be dipping our toes into the PB game till later in the year, probably autumn, but we are definitely going to give it a go this year. We enjoy going to the show and sales, sizing up the animals beforehand, see how our decisions compare to the judges.
The real judge in my opinion is the sales ring, love it when an animal we might have liked comes through having not been placed but rivals the top prices.

Whelan, which Angus lines are the ones worth researching? Complete novice here when it comes to PB game, I know of a herd near my OH's home place and they have heifers for sale sired by Nankang Nord, any opinions on him?

I don't know much about the DAMs breeding at the moment.

whelan2

patjack wrote: »

Thanks for all the helpful replies, we won't be dipping our toes into the PB game till later in the year, probably autumn, but we are definitely going to give it a go this year. We enjoy going to the show and sales, sizing up the animals beforehand, see how our decisions compare to the judges.
The real judge in my opinion is the sales ring, love it when an animal we might have liked comes through having not been placed but rivals the top prices.

Whelan, which Angus lines are the ones worth researching? Complete novice here when it comes to PB game, I know of a herd near my OH's home place and they have heifers for sale sired by Nankang Nord, any opinions on him?

I don't know much about the DAMs breeding at the moment.

ye we used him, alot of people going back to kbj -jetta- breeding also carton roe ernie, straw of these bulls are very hard to come by now

patjack

whelan2 wrote: »

ye we used him, alot of people going back to kbj -jetta- breeding also carton roe ernie, straw of these bulls are very hard to come by now

Thanks Whelan, good to have a few pointers as to what people in the game are using or are after.

whelan2

patjack wrote: »

Thanks Whelan, good to have a few pointers as to what people in the game are using or are after.

if uyou are in my area you are welcome to have a look, we bred 2 ai angus bulls ptj and ptn, was a good while ago now

wiggy123

nakkegg nord bred well--straws rare of him these days..he bred nice females.. as Whelan said a lot using older straws-re traditional bred bulls.. as some breeders had gone to much down the Canadian route--had females which were tall, maybe plain!
mogeely joe and goulding jumbo king breeding well also.. king bull mayb bit hard calved..

tomieen jones

I bought three purebred cows two years ago and purchased a good quality Angus bull 5 stars ! I know ai is the way I should probably be going but just don't have the time with work! Would I have difficulty sells his prodigy ? Would I be Bette going to ai and try work something? Bull is handy tho as we also have 38 suckler crossbred cows ! Any advise from the pure breeders here please

tomieen jones

I bought three purebred Angus cows two years ago and purchased a good quality Angus bull 5 stars ! I know ai is the way I should probably be going but just don't have the time with work! Would I have difficulty sells his prodigy ? Would I be Bette going to ai and try work something? Bull is handy tho as we also have 38 suckler crossbred cows ! Any advise from the pure breeders here please

wiggy123

I've small herd of pb angus's.. use all ai-if possible.. for me anyway--hard to purchase a stock bull--re suit all your cows...
ai route--is awkard, re detection etc.. but find in long run, you will have better progeny....
and with this new scheme--find more 5 star bulls in ai, than able to buy.. get my drift!

Bullocks

wiggy123 wrote: »

I've small herd of pb angus's.. use all ai-if possible.. for me anyway--hard to purchase a stock bull--re suit all your cows...
ai route--is awkard, re detection etc.. but find in long run, you will have better progeny....
and with this new scheme--find more 5 star bulls in ai, than able to buy.. get my drift!

Will they be looking for proof of Ai used or can the button tag /hair sample well if you lied about the sire for the new suckler scheme ?

ALANC81

tomieen jones wrote: »

I bought three purebred cows two years ago and purchased a good quality Angus bull 5 stars ! I know ai is the way I should probably be going but just don't have the time with work! Would I have difficulty sells his prodigy ? Would I be Bette going to ai and try work something? Bull is handy tho as we also have 38 suckler crossbred cows ! Any advise from the pure breeders here please

My advise is if at all possible go all AI and hand pick the bulls to suite the females.
99% of buyers want to see the top names in the breeding. You'll find AI sired animals sell better and faster than animals from a stock bull.

Tornbrook

if at all possible you should try to use A.I.

wiggy123

ah all goes through the system/books re my stock--via Ai.. when cow is ai'd..date is inputed/sire used is inputed asap..
not really anyway can lie.. only backfire on ya anyway.. may as well be honest from day 1....

Bellview

patjack wrote: »

Thanks Whelan, good to have a few pointers as to what people in the game are using or are after.

we have some angus as well, the breed has had a great year this year. the only pointers I would offer are 1. when buying heifers also consider the market you are aiming for the calves ie the ones that win at shows are generally not the most suitable for dairy farmers. 2. try to visit a few breeders yard not to buy but to walk through the herd - we have often had folks in to our place on a number of occasions. Ironically try to pick breeders that are not show men specialists as the show folks will send you down the hard calving scotish lines ie Rossiters, Rawburns, Nethertons, Elmarks... all these folks have traits closer to Charolais than Angus 3. contact the breed society as they will send you their herd annual - this will also help you see breeders names that are local to you. The Irish Angus soc in carrick on Shannon can be contacted on link below. http://www.irishangus.ie/ 4. If you see a herd dispersal, these are often the best to buy at as you know the sale of the cattle is genuine... but you need to watch the quality

Bellview

Bullocks wrote: »

Will they be looking for proof of Ai used or can the button tag /hair sample well if you lied about the sire for the new suckler scheme ?

in Irish Angus all the calves are DNA tested for last 2 years so sires are correct. ICBF pulled the funding for the DNA in 2015 but the new scheme will address this again though

Bellview

ALANC81 wrote: »

My advise is if at all possible go all AI and hand pick the bulls to suite the females.
99% of buyers want to see the top names in the breeding. You'll find AI sired animals sell better and faster than animals from a stock bull.

hopefully they can get the stars accurate... there are stock bulls that are breeding superior to AI in Angus.

I do agree though that AI in pedigree helps explain the traits of bull ie where a bull is known hard calver, it impacts the sale price of his sons... as I witnessed in Kilmallock on sat last

Bellview

Justjens wrote: »

Bought a bull off an Angus breeder in Cork last week, some of the best Angus cattle I've seen in ages. He was bulling some heifers, not sure if they will be for sale.

He topped the show at Kilmallock last week, Res Champ €4000. if I was in the market that's where I'd be going.

He also has a few polled HE but I didn't see any heifers, one other polled HE breeder in Monaghan and there's the Udel HE herd in Wexford, where my current stock bull came from.

Whatever you choose be prepared to travel.....

good luck with your purchase, you bought a nice one on Sat

wiggy123

as bellview said... do ur homework.. shop around--visit herds, as said some show cattle, mayb not best wait to start--eg purchase!

http://abri.une.edu.au/online/cgi-bin/i4.dll?1=3E37202F&2=2828&3=56&5=2B3C2B3C3A
on link above, will also find breeders in Ireland...

patjack

Thanks for the great pointers lads and lassies!

As Joejo, said previously I might have to buy an angus and a hereford! OH won't be for turning re: Hereford. Which is fair enough, she has a real grá for the Hereford.

Probably start with one of each and see how they go. Will be back on here when we do purchase, but won't be till close to end of year.

ALANC81

Bellview wrote: »

hopefully they can get the stars accurate... there are stock bulls that are breeding superior to AI in Angus.

I do agree though that AI in pedigree helps explain the traits of bull ie where a bull is known hard calver, it impacts the sale price of his sons... as I witnessed in Kilmallock on sat last

I don't have much faith in the star ratings when a bulls figures can change so much from year to year and that goes for proven bulls to but it still pays to try and stay on top re star ratings.
I also agree that some stock bulls are breeding better than AI bulls but there progeny don't sell as well.
Some of our best calves were from our own bulls but when we got to the sales ring lesser bulls sold better because of the names in there breeding.

Tornbrook

ALANC81 wrote: »

I don't have much faith in the star ratings when a bulls figures can change so much from year to year and that goes for proven bulls to but it still pays to try and stay on top re star ratings.
I also agree that some stock bulls are breeding better than AI bulls but there progeny don't sell as well.
Some of our best calves were from our own bulls but when we got to the sales ring lesser bulls sold better because of the names in there breeding.

I agree, lots of bulls are sold for better because of the big name bull in the back breeding, rather than the actual quality of the bull on the ground.

Bellview

ALANC81 wrote: »

I don't have much faith in the star ratings when a bulls figures can change so much from year to year and that goes for proven bulls to but it still pays to try and stay on top re star ratings.
I also agree that some stock bulls are breeding better than AI bulls but there progeny don't sell as well.
Some of our best calves were from our own bulls but when we got to the sales ring lesser bulls sold better because of the names in there breeding.

can happen, but I must admit my more expensive bulls this year were from my stock bull rather than the AI lad's.

interesting piece in journal today on breed soc's pushing back on the stars and calling them weak. In Angus side all sons of Rossiter is seen as a super star yet from a breed perspective he is breeding hard calvers (AI proves this), cattle that that have limited angus traits for heads and they are hard cattle to finish

tanko

I see the eurostar figures for GJB have gone through the floor, he's now only a two star bull for both maternal and terminal traits.
How are breeders and farmers supposed to make breeding decisions based on eurostar figures when they can vary so much over a short period of time.

Bellview

tanko wrote: »

I see the eurostar figures for GJB have gone through the floor, he's now only a two star bull for both maternal and terminal traits.
How are breeders and farmers supposed to make breeding decisions based on eurostar figures when they can vary so much over a short period of time.

completely agree... I never understood why Rossiter was rated so high. To get an Angus bull into the maternal breeding program, your best chance was to have a Rossiter son... a joke but an expensive one now for some folks. I sometimes wonder do ICBF suffer from an Irish inferiority complex as they seem to love imported semen instead of understanding what is available here under Irish conditions.

I would love ICBF come clean on how all the % are calculated as sometimes it feel's like a lucky dip exercise... the only impact now is with the new beef scheme a lot of good bulls will get ignored in preference to some new 'shiny' object that ICBF like

ALANC81

Bellview wrote: »

can happen, but I must admit my more expensive bulls this year were from my stock bull rather than the AI lad's.

interesting piece in journal today on breed soc's pushing back on the stars and calling them weak. In Angus side all sons of Rossiter is seen as a super star yet from a breed perspective he is breeding hard calvers (AI proves this), cattle that that have limited angus traits for heads and they are hard cattle to finish

we've always said the euro star system was unreliable with Limousin's.