Best place for a German soldier to be stationed

ken76

Hi

Im watching a lot of tv about ww2 at the moment, it being 70th anniversary of end of war.
Obviously the Germans lost.But I have a few questions that the experts here may know the answer.

1)How big was the german army and how many german military survived the war?

2)I know german looses were huge,but was there any place where german soldiers-navy etc were based and the war passed them by with little action?Where would of been the best place to of been stationed ? By best I mean safest.

Or was it a case of everyone moved to eastern front? I ask as it seemed hitler was obsessed with holding land.So maybe soldiers remained in places with little fighting.
Sorry for stupid questions and thanks

Manach

1- I'd not know the exact figures, but from what I read those who served in the U-boot service had the the highest percentage of losses.

2 - Norway or Denmark. For that while the climate not the best, there was not any major army v army fighting and they surrender on mass in 1945.

mikemac1

2 - The Channel Islands seemed a handy number. The Bobbies remained to do the regular policing and there was no partisans sniping at you like the French mainland.

Taken without a shot fired and taken back without a shot fired

chrisguy116

I'd be really interested to hear more on this actually, it's a question that has long stuck with me .. As in were there ANY safe spots for german soldiers or territories that would hold no strategic value to the allies?

ken76

Manach wrote: »

1- I'd not know the exact figures, but from what I read those who served in the U-boot service had the the highest percentage of losses.

2 - Norway or Denmark. For that while the climate not the best, there was not any major army v army fighting and they surrender on mass in 1945.

If hitler had of moved his forces from Norway and denmark.these guys were basically untouched. Would they have made a big difference in battle for berlin or the slowing down of the Russians? They were probably well stocked and fresh

beauf

Due to lack of air support or fuel manpower wouldn't have had much effect IMO.

tac foley

Undoubtedly the Channel Islands were the safest places for the occupying German forces. As noted, there was no partisan sniping at you from the hedgerows. No bombing either - these were Crown subjects - NOT subjects of the UK, but with Crown Dependency status.

Most of the military structures put up there - still, for the most part, looking much the same as they did the Germans left - were built by the Todt organisation using imported slave labour.

Very few, if any, Jews in the Channel Islands- still aren't. So no midnight round-ups and machine-gun parties just down the road in a hidden copse.

tac

tac foley

ken76 wrote: »

...and how many german military survived the war?

In the case of German PoWs taken by the allies, most who lived to go into captivity survived to go home. Unlike the Germans, those who managed to escape and were subsequently recaptured were not executed.

When we lived in Berlin - 81-84 - our baby-sitter's father, a simple infantryman who had been captured after the surrender of the 6th Army, one of over four thousand PoWs in his particular prison compound, told us his story. Those members of the Wehrmacht captured by the Russians, particularly those from Stalingrad, had a VERY hard time indeed. He was one of them.

A group of about seven hundred prisoners were taken by train to Ekaterinburg, and sent down the coal mines.

They never set foot again on the surface until March 1956, when they were released without any warning, and sent back to Germany, via Moscow, by train. Arriving in Berlin, a place he had never been before in his life, he was given a five-rouble note, a half-loaf of bread, and pointed in the direction of the western part of the city. Arriving in the Red Cross refugee centre, he found out that he was one just eight survivors from his group. He stayed in Berlin, and was on the 'right' side of the barbed wire when it was put up in 1961.

He told us that he had just taken one day at a time, never hoping, never making plans, never expecting anything good to happen. There were no fairy godmothers down the mines, just Cinderellas, he joked.

tac

tac foley

ken76 wrote: »

...and how many german military survived the war?

In the case of German PoWs taken by the allies, most who lived to go into captivity survived to go home. Tthose who managed to escape and were subsequently recaptured were not executed, a habit that the Germans often used with Allied prisoners on re-capture.

Those members of the Wehrmacht captured by the Russians, particularly those from Stalingrad, had a VERY hard time indeed. Members of the SS were usually summarily executed on the spot. The treatment meted out to the common or garden soldier by the Russians was much different to that experienced by Germans captured by the British and Americans.

When we lived in Berlin - 81-84 - our baby-sitter's father, a simple infantryman, had been captured after the surrender of the 6th Army. He was one of over four thousand PoWs in his particular prison compound and he told us his story.

He was one of a group of about seven hundred German prisoners taken by train to Ekaterinburg, and sent down the coal mines, early in 1943.

They never set foot again on the surface until March 1956, when they were released without any warning, and sent back to Germany, via Moscow, by train. Arriving in Berlin, a place he had never been before in his life, he was given a five-rouble note, a half-loaf of bread, and pointed in the direction of the western part of the city. Arriving in the Red Cross refugee centre, he found out that he was one just eight survivors from his group. That's a survival rate of just over 1%.

He stayed in Berlin, and was on the 'right' side of the barbed wire when it was put up in 1961.

He told us that he had just taken one day at a time, never hoping, never making plans, never expecting anything good to happen. There were no fairy godmothers down the mines, just Cinderellas, he joked.

By way of contrast, a good read here is the book about all the Axis-power PoWs of WW2 who were interned in Ireland - 'Prisoners of the State'. If you have any interest in how German AND Allied PoWs were treated during 'The Emergency' then I commend it to you.

tac

Boskowski

As the previous poster mentioned my grandad was a pow, taken by the Russians some place in Scandinavia probably Finland. He returned in 55 a broken man who remained silent in his wheelchair staring out the window until he died in 79. What little he spoke about the war he insisted he didn't see much he was only a cook. We knew that wasn't true. Until his return my grandma had no idea whether he was alive or not. Hard to imagine what that must have been like for both of them. About one in ten survived those pow years in Russia.

Edit: Nowadays the war is mostly numbers, so many millions here so many millions there. But when you get accounts of the individual heartbreaks is when you wish there was a hell for the Hitlers of this world.

tac foley

My late Uncle Micky, who ended up the war as a Wehrmacht warrant officer signaller lying in a ditch, minus an eye, an arm and a goodly lump of leg, was never taken prisoner until that time in early 1945 when his column was hit by a group of US FGA just utside Moenchen-Gladbach, on a road that I later used to go to work in nearby Rheindahlen. All of his recollections after that were of clean white clothing and the smell of hospitals and a lot of pain until he left Gobowen Military Hospital [just outside Oswestry] in early 1946 with his new wife, my Aunty Ruby.

At school, one of our math teachers had been in the Luftwaffe, and having been shot down over Holland and taken prisoner by the British, had decided to make a new life in England. His son sat next to me in class. Dad F*******n thanked his lucky stars he had not been on the Eastern Front and became a model British citizen just as soon as he could get nationalised after his release. A gifted teacher who already spoke almost perfect English, and very clever, he found no difficulty fitting in to academia here in UK in post-war Britain. We loved hearing his war stories, especially when another math teacher, a former RCAF pilot in Bomber Command [DFM and TWO DFC's] joined in the conversation. Strangely, they were close friends.

tac

ken76

This is really interesting thanks.How was it decided where you were based? Like did you choose to go to places like Norway or channel islands? Or was it the elite who went East and poor standard soldiers based on channel island?

tac foley

ken76 wrote: »

This is really interesting thanks.How was it decided where you were based? Like did you choose to go to places like Norway or channel islands? Or was it the elite who went East and poor standard soldiers based on channel island?

hahahahahahahahahahaha:D

You ARE kidding me, right?

'Choose' and 'Wehrmacht' or 'Waffen SS' are not usually found in the same dictionary. You went where you were sent, no matter who or what you were. It later became obvious that the older soldiers were being posted to the somewhat easier postings, but postings were not on an individual basis, but en masse.

Only when you became a staff officer, of pretty high rank, and I MEAN high rank, full general or above, did you dare to offer an opinion as to where you might perhaps be best employed to the benefit of the Reich in the service of the Fuhrer, to whom you, and every other member of the Wehrmacht, Waffen SS, Luftwaffe and Kriegsmarine had sworn a personal oath of allegiance - 'Ich schwore dich, Adolf Hitler...' 'I swear to you, Adolf Hitler etc.....'

Such thoughts of getting the posting you wanted, however, were quickly smothered, as the unsuitability, if not sheer ineptitude of certain generals to their posts readily demonstrated later on in the war. It has to be said though, that their good generals, like their good soldiers, were far more experienced and had far more battlefield 'nous' than their Allied counterparts. At the basic level of the infantry platoon, the German unit had almost as much firepower instantly available as any Allied infantry battalion.

tac

beauf

I could be wrong but I think it depended what unit you started off in. But you could end up anywhere. So a bit random.

If you ended up in an elite unit, that elite unit would be sent where ever they needed to be. Just finished a book on Michael Wittmann, and while he was an exception (as was the unit) his unit SS Panzer Regiment 1/1st SS Panzer Division Leibstandarte was sent to a lot of critical battles on different fronts, east and west.

Any thing I've read of the war units were reformed and renamed constantly. Personnel being transferred all over. Check out this guy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albrecht_Lanz

German units were ground down till they were literally nothing left. its not like you could do a tour then go home afterwards. There was no where to go back to. You'd get a couple of weeks off then back to the front, or retraining to a new unit.

I'm no expert though so maybe others can give more info.

Probably the best place to be would be captured early on in the war. No possibility of being transferred early on. Unless of course you were captured by the russians. Where you had very little chance of surviving as a prisoner. Though you had a better chancethan did a Russian captured by Germans.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisoner_of_war#World_War_II

ken76

tac foley wrote: »

hahahahahahahahahahaha:D

You ARE kidding me, right?

'Choose' and 'Wehrmacht' or 'Waffen SS' are not usually found in the same dictionary. You went where you were sent, no matter who or what you were. It later became obvious that the older soldiers were being posted to the somewhat easier postings, but postings were not on an individual basis, but en masse.

Only when you became a staff officer, of pretty high rank, and I MEAN high rank, full general or above, did you dare to offer an opinion as to where you might perhaps be best employed to the benefit of the Reich in the service of the Fuhrer, to whom you, and every other member of the Wehrmacht, Waffen SS, Luftwaffe and Kriegsmarine had sworn a personal oath of allegiance - 'Ich schwore dich, Adolf Hitler...' 'I swear to you, Adolf Hitler etc.....'

Such thoughts of getting the posting you wanted, however, were quickly smothered, as the unsuitability, if not sheer ineptitude of certain generals to their posts readily demonstrated later on in the war. It has to be said though, that their good generals, like their good soldiers, were far more experienced and had far more battlefield 'nous' than their Allied counterparts. At the basic level of the infantry platoon, the German unit had almost as much firepower instantly available as any Allied infantry battalion.

tac

Not kidding☺I just thought if you spoke Greek for example or French you could choose to be sent to those countries etc or more than likely you would be sent there.Thanks for your answers they are really enlightening and much appreciated

Manach

As mentioned, German POWs in Russian hands did not fare well. But reading a primary source from the author Von Luck once the awful first few months were survived the chances of getting out alive significantly increased. As well Russian military guards were not as bad as their those guarding civil Russian politic prisoners.

tac foley

There was little or no need to speak any language other than German. The locals were used as interpreters and very quickly learned enough German to understand simple concepts like 'reprisals', 'punishments', 'death by firing squad/hanging', 'forbidden', and so on.

The incidence of the ordinary soldier being fluent in another language was passing small. Some well-educated officers undoubtedly spoke the language of the occupied country, but as the occupiers, it had limited appeal.

My Uncle Micky served in Greece and the Balkans, and only ever heard German spoken - I asked him about that facet of occupation and wondered how they managed to glean some much information from intercepts [his main job in life as a signaller]. Turns out there were enough traitors to do the hard work in every country.

tac

ken76

tac foley wrote: »

There was little or no need to speak any language other than German. The locals were used as interpreters and very quickly learned enough German to understand simple concepts like 'reprisals', 'punishments', 'death by firing squad/hanging', 'forbidden', and so on.

The incidence of the ordinary soldier being fluent in another language was passing small. Some well-educated officers undoubtedly spoke the language of the occupied country, but as the occupiers, it had limited appeal.

My Uncle Micky served in Greece and the Balkans, and only ever heard German spoken - I asked him about that facet of occupation and wondered how they managed to glean some much information from intercepts [his main job in life as a signaller]. Turns out there were enough traitors to do the hard work in every country.

tac

Your uncle Micky sounds Like a fascinating man.Just another question not about your uncle persay,I know the SS commited atrocities, but the wehermacht were just normal conscripts. Did german soldiers look back with pride for their service? Or was the war something not to be spoken about .I mean was there old comrade associations where they could reminisce about life in the army or did they just want to forget the whole thing, because they lost and didn't want to he associated with SS etc

beauf

You should watch this...

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generation_War

It's was a complex time in history. Things that are obvious now were not obvious then. Society has changed a lot since then.

You should look up the trial of the recent Guard/bookkeeper from one of the concentration camps. He gives a good insight to the mindset at the time.

beauf

On the subject of traitors a lot of counties had a lot of political unrest, and many feared the Russians more than the Germans.

tac foley

The Wehrmacht also committed atrocities - well-documented as well. They were, however, for the most part honourable opponents and hard fighters, as anybody who fought them would advise you.

Micky had nothing to be ashamed of in his service career. He was an orphan in a Catholic orphanage in Dresden, having been handed in by two police officers from whom he took his name. His age was estimated to have been six months or so at the time in 1920, so he was given the 'hand-in' date as his birthday. He joined the Wehrmacht on his 18th birthday in 1938 and was never officially discharged from service. He trained as a signaller and specialised in radio interception and direction-finding after reaching sergeant grade in 1941, and ended up in Crete. He landed with another fifteen of his troop, and by that evening there were just three left alive - his first close-quarter combat medal was awarded for that little episode, and three weeks later, a Second Class Iron Cross. After settling up in Crete, his unit moved up Greece and the Balkans, where he earned his second and third close-quarter combat medals followed up by a First class Iron Cross. Remember that he was NOT an infantryman but a 'rear-echelon seat-polisher', so he must have lived through some extremely interesting times. He was a Senior Warrant Officer when the war ended for him on the A57 highway in February 1945.

After leaving the military hospital with my Aunty in tow, or maybe the other way around, he made the decision to become a British citizen as soon as he could do so, and did so, never going back to Germany in the rest of his life. The orphanage where he had lived for almost eighteen years had been obliterated in February 1945, and he had no other recorded life, so he started over. He found work with the post-war ex-PoW organisation, and after the foundation of the National Health Service was employed until he died in Social Services. He only spoke to me about the war and his experiences, and he taught me German and tolerance. He died in his sleep, aged only about forty-nine, in the summer of 1969, and I miss him every day.

tac

beauf

The hardship and scale of battles endured in WWII are unimaginable.

ken76

tac foley wrote: »

The Wehrmacht also committed atrocities - well-documented as well. They were, however, for the most part honourable opponents and hard fighters, as anybody who fought them would advise you.

Micky had nothing to be ashamed of in his service career. He was an orphan in a Catholic orphanage in Dresden, having been handed in by two police officers from whom he took his name. His age was estimated to have been six months or so at the time in 1920, so he was given the 'hand-in' date as his birthday. He joined the Wehrmacht on his 18th birthday in 1938 and was never officially discharged from service. He trained as a signaller and specialised in radio interception and direction-finding after reaching sergeant grade in 1941, and ended up in Crete. He landed with another fifteen of his troop, and by that evening there were just three left alive - his first close-quarter combat medal was awarded for that little episode, and three weeks later, a Second Class Iron Cross. After settling up in Crete, his unit moved up Greece and the Balkans, where he earned his second and third close-quarter combat medals followed up by a First class Iron Cross. Remember that he was NOT an infantryman but a 'rear-echelon seat-polisher', so he must have lived through some extremely interesting times. He was a Senior Warrant Officer when the war ended for him on the A57 highway in February 1945.

After leaving the military hospital with my Aunty in tow, or maybe the other way around, he made the decision to become a British citizen as soon as he could do so, and did so, never going back to Germany in the rest of his life. The orphanage where he had lived for almost eighteen years had been obliterated in February 1945, and he had no other recorded life, so he started over. He found work with the post-war ex-PoW organisation, and after the foundation of the National Health Service was employed until he died in Social Services. He only spoke to me about the war and his experiences, and he taught me German and tolerance. He died in his sleep, aged only about forty-nine, in the summer of 1969, and I miss him every day.

tac

Amazing story and life

feargale

I reckon the Curragh was the best place for a German soldier, or an Allied one for that matter. Man, they had a bloody ball!

ken76

this was on last night, well worth a watch on how Germans were treated in aftermath of the war http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b05x30lb

Manach

The German's treatment did come down to who they surrendered to. Even among the most venegeful of the Western Powers (France) the treatment meeted out to the military and civilians by Russia was terrifying. This can be placed in context what the same Russians suffered during the Nazi invasion. Neither were right, but the sense of symmetry was perhaps apt.

feargale

Manach wrote: »

The German's treatment did come down to who they surrendered to. Even among the most venegeful of the Western Powers (France) the treatment meeted out to the military and civilians by Russia was terrifying. This can be placed in context what the same Russians suffered during the Nazi invasion. Neither were right, but the sense of symmetry was perhaps apt.

It seems to me that the Soviet soldiers' behaviour in Germany, while far from impeccable, was a hell of alot better than the Germans' behaviour in the western Soviet Union.

Manach

It varied considerably. There are accounts of relatively normal interactions between the Germans and the local civilians, especially ones who had been brutalised by the Stalinist regime. Of course many more incidents of the worst type of butchery against Russian civilians by other German forces.
Offhand Solzhenitsyn, as a young officer, wrote first hand accounts of Soviet attacks on German civilians while other like Von Luck wrote of some level of fair treatment by other elements of the armed forces with writers like Anne Applebaum chronicling the brutality of both sides.