When do you think Landlords will grow up?

fieldsmedal23

It is common knowledge that private rental accommodation is substandard in Ireland. When do you foresee a situation whereby renters aren't simply bending over to be lubed by the landlords on a monthly basis? 10, 20, 30, 40+ years? Landlords in this country have more in common with Feudal slave owners, than individuals exercising the provision of a service with respect to the market.

9 out of 10 private rentals in Dublin fail basic standard tests, according to the Irish Times.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

I assume you rent.

fieldsmedal23

Wilder Spoiled Biker wrote: »

I assume you rent.

That would be correct. Maybe I should get a mortgage.

Stheno

fieldsmedal23 wrote: »

It is common knowledge that private rental accommodation is substandard in Ireland. When do you foresee a situation whereby renters aren't simply bending over to be lubed by the landlords on a monthly basis? 10, 20, 30, 40+ years? Landlords in this country have more in common with Feudal slave owners, than individuals exercising the provision of a service with respect to the market.

9 out of 10 private rentals in Dublin fail basic standard tests, according to the Irish Times.

Link?

fieldsmedal23

Stheno wrote: »

Link?

I can't post the link, as I am a new user.

The Backwards Man

It's funny, most landlords would probably ask the same question of tenants.

dr.bollocko

Stheno wrote: »

Link?

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/nine-out-of-10-dublin-rented-dwellings-fail-standards-test-1.2015028

Cold War Kid

When I was looking for accommodation in Dublin in 2006, I couldn't believe the sh1t-holes I viewed, and for market price. I do wonder how some of them sleep at night.

That said, I'm an owner now and have let a room every so often - wouldn't dream of having the place anything less than perfect. Owner-occupier so that's easy to say, but I wouldn't lower my standards if absentee either.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

fieldsmedal23 wrote: »

That would be correct. Maybe I should get a mortgage.

Perhaps. At least then you have control over the quality and upkeep of your home.

Cold War Kid

Not easy to get a mortgage now. It once was, and look how that turned out.

If people can't afford a mortgage, they can't afford one. That's no excuse for sub-standard rental accommodation.

LollipopJimmy

Dublin has far too many 'part time' landlords. Ie people who have no clue about tenancy law or maintenance in general. Landlords who think it's ok to go a week without running water until their plumber mate can fix the problem rather than paying for somebody else.

Landlords letting themselves in because they were 'just passing and thought I'd throw an eye in'

Both are examples I have from the last 3 months and many more where they came from. A lot of people have emotional attachments to the properties being let too so get really crazy if you move things like the couch or beds in bedrooms looking to use the space better.

Anybody who wants to be a landlord should have to do some sort of basic course

Mr_Muffin

With a lack of rental properties in some parts of the country people lower their standards by a huge amount.

If people are willing to rent a sub-standard place then why bother spending the time and money improving it.

bjork

fieldsmedal23 wrote: »

That would be correct. Maybe I should get a mortgage.

Are you an accidental renter with an accidental landlord?

:pac:

Mr. Incognito

There are crap tenants and crap landlords.

And crap apartments.

beauf

fieldsmedal23 wrote: »

...9 out of 10 private rentals in Dublin fail basic standard tests, according to the Irish Times.

Bit of a sweeping generalisation.

That statistic ( have to assume this is the statistic the OP is on about) isn't for all properties. Its for those specifically targeted...

....The ongoing programme is targeted at parts of the city with high concentrations of what are commonly referred to as “pre-63” properties. Among the areas inspected were Rathmines, Ranelagh, South Circular Road and Ballyfermot on the southside and Drumcondra, North Circular Road, Stoneybatter and Belvedere Place on the northside.

The article doesn't really mention what of any enforcement was enforced. Unless they enforce it, it won't change.

anncoates

My wife is a landlord and is very conscientious. The current tenant(RA, by the way) is great but there's been at least one filthy cnut of a tenant. And we're talking about so called respectable professionals here as well.

The don't be a dick rule should be applied. Tenants and landlords should both have rights but also have responsibilities.

Quite simple really.

dotsman

beauf wrote: »

Bit of a sweeping generalisation.

That statistic ( have to assume this is the statistic the OP is on about) isn't for all properties. Its for those specifically targeted... .

Exactly. I assume they only inspect ones that a tenant has complained about, so the correct statement is more likely to be "90% of complaints are upheld".

From back in my days as a renter and from regularly looking at daft, I would imagine the overwhelming majority are not substandard. In fact, with people trawling through daft and adding to this thread, it only looks like there is a dodgy property every now and again (out of thousands).

The Zec

From listening to liveline last week I would ask when will tenants grow up?

beauf

Mr_Muffin wrote: »

With a lack of rental properties in some parts of the country people lower their standards by a huge amount.

If people are willing to rent a sub-standard place then why bother spending the time and money improving it.

That's the other side of it. If no one rented the place they'd be forced to improve it.

anncoates

A lot of people could actually avoid paying through the nose to live in some of those pre 63 hovels in Rathmines, ranelagh, SCR, NCR etc but they'd obviously turn into a pumpkin at midnight if they rented a newer property in a different post code.

UCDVet

It's all supply and demand.

There is an on-going thread on here where people post up pictures of horrible rental's from Daft.ie - and everyone makes fun of them. The thing is, they get rented out. Tenants pay for them. Supply and demand.

As long as there are people who are willing to rent a run-down place and deal with these problems in exchange for a slightly lower rate of rent, landlords will fill that market demand. My first landlord in Ireland didn't comply with all the laws, and the place was lacking.

You can turn the question around - when will renters grow up? But it's just as silly to phrase that way. You can go on Daft.ie and find great places with no problems and responsive landlords. It's just, those places are well outside of my price range. So I'll keep renting crappy places in Dublin that I don't like, but I don't want a 90 minute commute to get to work and I can't get a job outside of Dublin city center.....and I don't want to spend 1400 euro on an apartment. The 950 I pay is just enough to afford a run down apartment that has a few problems....so that's what I get.

Santa Cruz

fieldsmedal23 wrote: »

It is common knowledge that private rental accommodation is substandard in Ireland. When do you foresee a situation whereby renters aren't simply bending over to be lubed by the landlords on a monthly basis? 10, 20, 30, 40+ years? Landlords in this country have more in common with Feudal slave owners, than individuals exercising the provision of a service with respect to the market.

9 out of 10 private rentals in Dublin fail basic standard tests, according to the Irish Times.

How many failed because dirtbird tenants dont know how to empty dustbins, not to block sinks with uneaten food teabags etc. There are some bad landlords out there and there are bad tenants. They deserve each other

syklops

I've been a tenant for over a decade and i can not defend every tenant, it truly is an indefensible position, however, a landlord defending all landlords is also an indefensible position. Before this thread descends into a tenant vs landlord debate mosh pit, lets all agree there are bad tenants and bad land lords.

Edit: As Beauf has pointed out it was 90% of the properties inspected - read: complained about/Reported, were found to be substandard.

I'd agree most of the poor landlords I have had have been the accidental landlords who inherited a house and decided to rent it out without a notion of what it entails, their rights, the tenants rights, or what is deemed as acceptable.

Lurk in this forum long enough and you will see threads on here from landlords looking for advice for how to deal with a situation which shows their inexperience.

Personally, I think things won't improve until there is a surplus of rental accommodation in Dublin and the rest of the country. Like in any market, standards go up when there is competition. Not sure How to improve the state of poor tenants. Perhaps there is a niche in the market for a new social medium. Think Linkedin but instead of former colleagues, its for former tenant/landlords. Former landlords can review their previous tenants. Free sign up, if a tenant doesn't have a profile on the site, its an indicator that they have left a wave of destruction in their wake.

There are some bad landlords out there and there are bad tenants. They deserve each other

If it was a case of the bad tenants just having the bad landlords and vice versa, then great but thats not possible.

anncoates

While I'm sure there are loads of horrible properties around, I also wouldn't extrapolate that 90% of properties are crap based on a sample study that seems focused on central 'flatland' areas that traditionally have loads of more dilapidated, subdivided properties combined with extremely high rental demand.

syklops

anncoates wrote: »

While I'm sure there are loads of horrible properties around, I also wouldn't extrapolate that 90% of properties are crap based on a sample study that seems focused on central 'flatland' areas that traditionally have loads of more dilapidated, subdivided properties combined with extremely high rental demand.

I don't think anyone suggested that 90% of properties are crap. I think the point was for a relatively small market, there is a lot of substandard places out there, and despite their shortcomings they still get let, so there is no incentive to improve them.

Personally, I think part of the problem is also, too much regulation. Considering the current shortage of housing especially in Dublin, banning bedsits was a major mistake. In my early 20's many of my friends lived in places that wouldn't pass the new regulations and I was very envious of some of them. Small, yes but often cosy. "Lack of proper food preparation areas" :rolleyes: well yes, but when I was 21 I was out 5 nights a week, dominos was around the corner and more than one guy bought a beer fridge which held milk and eggs(as well as beer). The new regulations also said they must provide access to laundry facilities. Going to the Laundromat is common in New York, London and other capital cities. Whats wrong with using one in Dublin? Given the choice of having a bedsit in the city centre for significantly less than 1000 a month+ which seems to be the going rate for an apartment/flat, where I dont have a washing machine or full apartment which costs significantly more with all mod cons, I would happily take the bedsit.

endacl

The Zec wrote: »

From listening to liveline last week I would ask when will tenants grow up?

You listen to joe?

LOL :pac:

RonanP77

I rented for a few years in the late 90s and was happy with what I had back then, my wife rented a room around 2005 and flat for a short while in 2006, it was an absolute kip, there was always a smell in it no matter how much we cleaned it, the landlord lied about private parking too. She didn't last long before moving on.

I've been a landlord for about 5 years now, the house is only 8 years old so is built to a good standard, I made sure of that. When a small problem occasionally shows up we get it sorted by professionals straight away. Our first tenant moved out a year ago, and left the place a mess, we got every room repainted, put in newer furniture and left it in perfect condition for the next tenants. I'm not sure what more I can do really, there are no problems with me or the house.

anncoates

syklops wrote: »

I don't think anyone suggested that 90% of properties are crap.

The linked article (on which the OP is referenced) did.

syklops

RonanP77 wrote: »

I've been a landlord for about 5 years now, the house is only 8 years old so is built to a good standard, I made sure of that. When a small problem occasionally shows up we get it sorted by professionals straight away. Our first tenant moved out a year ago, and left the place a mess, we got every room repainted, put in newer furniture and left it in perfect condition for the next tenants. I'm not sure what more I can do really, there are no problems with me or the house.

You sound like a model Landlord. Don't take offence by the comments here. You are no more responsible for the state of renting accommodation in Ireland than I am responsible for your first tenant leaving a mess behind.

syklops

anncoates wrote: »

The linked article (on which the OP is referenced) did.

I saw that after I made my comment and have edited it. It wasn't saying 90% of properties in Dublin were crap it said that 90% of the ones targeted were.

Also see my most recent comment, on the regulations themselves which I don't fully agree with. From a health and safety point of view, there is a difference between a safe and healthy living environment and meeting minimum standards. Especially when those standards require laundry and food preparation facilities which instantly raises the cost of providing accommodation which in turn instantly increases the cost of rent those properties.

anncoates

syklops wrote: »

I saw that after I made my comment and have edited it. It wasn't saying 90% of properties in Dublin were crap it said that 90% of the ones targeted were. .

That's why I said implied. That's the headline and the gist of the implication. And that's what was regurgitated in the OP.

Just a point, not a biggie . I hear what you're saying otherwise.

syklops

Is there anything to be said for another mass changing the title to something less insulting? Adding in the word "some", might go some lengths towards not insulting and alienating the good landlords out there? Or indeed changing the title altogether to "How to improve the standard and availability of accommodation in Ireland?"

astrofool

The Irish rental market is a complete mess, most money can be made by completely ignoring tenants rights, and just barely keeping minimum standards, so that's what most seasoned landlords do.

Doing everything above board and legally handling the rights of a tenant would put them out of business and likely bankrupt them.

j80ezgvc3p92xu

The rents in Dublin just seem to go up so fast. When I was starting off college, I was able to rent a single room in Goatstown/Churchtown/Dundrum for circa 80 euro per week. Now it seems landlords are looking for around 120 per week and that is for a shared room. Crazy.